m1a accuracy?

R

rrflyer

Gunny Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Feb 7, 2008
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DFW, TX
#1
I'm thinkin about picking up an m1a.

Just wondering what you guys shooting them are really getting accuracy wise? I may have a chance to pick up a nation or super match for a good price.

I know that for competition shooting the AR's have taken over but as an all around rifle for hunting, target shooting out to around 500 or so they seem to be pretty slick.
 
#2
Re: m1a accuracy?

I'm looking at picking up a nice M1A as well. I've only shot military M14's so far, but the accuracy seemed pretty good. There was a guy on a 1000 yard line next to me in Utah once shooting an M1A, unsupported, with iron sights. Bastard outshot me and my Rem 700 by 2 pts. D'oh! So they CAN certainly be shooters!
 
#3
Re: m1a accuracy?

I have had 1 SM, and about seven NM's, some standards, and 1 M21. I would say that it is not unusual to have one that will shoot under MOA if you have a builder that knows what he is doing, but I would not go into it expecting that kind of performance. If you go into it looking for Moa or so then find it's less it's all good.

I have found that with good components, and builder you usually will be happy with it, Springfield NM, and SM's by the way are usually very good shooters. They have been building these rifles for a long time and know what works. That being said if you are the kind of guy that likes things your way, or enjoy the process of getting a custom build then you can spec it out they way you want and go with a builder with a good rep. I have shot some M1A's that were absolutely astounding in how accurate they were, and some that were fair. I've had something like six or seven built and was happy with every one. In my opinion if you can clean a target with it at 300 slowfire (iron sights, prone with a sling)then it's good to go. The rest is up to you.

On the other hand if you are looking for bolt rifle groups with a scope, and rest of some kind then that is a more difficult oblective. My supermatch with a scope and rest would shoot under a half inch at 100 for five shots pretty consistantly, but that is hard to replicate with a fresh build, or new rifle. You shouldn't be expecting that kind of performance, it will set you up for disappointment. You could have Jon Wolfe (M14parts.com)in carolina build you one with an LRB M25 receiver and a krieger barrel and if might shoot under an inch pretty regular, I've seen many of his builds shoot very impressive groups with DMR barrels that are chrome lined. If that's the kind of performance you are looking for I would advise contacting him and listening to what he has to say. HTH
P.S. Had one he built for someone else with the criterion chrome lined DMR barrel (1/11 twist) and it shot consistantly 1.14 to 1.2 TEN shot groups with SURPLUS with iron sighs off a bench. He shot this at 100 yards to test it's accuracy potential. He is an excellent builder, with excellent results.
 
#4
Re: m1a accuracy?

I have an M-21 and I really love it, partly because of nostalgia. I spent a long time with load development and only occasionaly getting under 1 MOA. I called Springfield and expressed my dismay and they said to send it back and they will take a look at it. All in all, I love the rifle, just dissappointed in it's accuracy.
myerfire
 
#5
Re: m1a accuracy?

Buy a rack grade rifle, one with all mil-contractor parts. Install NM sights and the NM gas cylinder mod. That is about as good as it gets for a dependable and accurate M1a. Spend your money on the rifle w/mil-contractor parts, you won't regret that. A Springfield installed Mil-Con barrel done right, to last.

If you want a .308 semi-auto to scope and tweak for precision; go Armalite 10(T) or custom.
 
#6
Re: m1a accuracy?

If you want a .308 semi-auto to scope for reliable precision look no further than Ron Smith at Smith Enterprise, Inc.

Over the years SEI has custom built four extremely accurate, ultra reliable M14s for me.
They are built on Norinco and Poly Tech receivers with a combination of USGI TRW, Chinese and SEI parts.
Three of them are tension bedded in SAGE EBR stocks and one is in a USGI synthetic stock with RRM.
Two have 22.0" barrels, two have 18.0" barrels. Standard and medium heavy profiles in each length.

SEI can build what you want on your choice of receiver with your choice of parts and stock.

The stock you choose dictates scoping options. I like the SAGE EBR stock and the scope mounts from LaRue and SAGE.

This is my SEI M21A5 Crazy Horse EBR

M21A5_EBR-2.jpg

 
#7
Re: m1a accuracy?

I've been working with the M14 and M1A platforms for a long, long time. What you have been told is good advice so far. Getting bolt-gun size groups from an M1A <span style="font-style: italic">can</span> be done, but not easily or inexpensively. Maintaining such accuracy is equally difficult and expensive.

One problem with an M1A is that it needs to be skim bedded every 1,000 rounds to maintain top accuracy in a conventional stock. You have to keep field stripping to an absolute minimum, say once or twice a year, or else you degrade the bedding faster. Another problem with an M1A is that is was never designed to be scoped. Every method of attaching a scope to the rifle is a compromise, at best - some are just better than others.

For the ultimate M1A accuracy setup, I would recommend talking to Jon Tank, at Tank's Rifle Shop about a build using an LRB M25 receiver and one of his bedding blocks in a McMillan stock. The LRB M25 scope mount setup is arguably the best thing going. Jon designed his bedding block to eliminate a lot of the problems associated with bedding wearing out, and it does an admirable job. A build like this using a Krieger barrel should be capable of doing what you want.

http://www.tanksrifleshop.com

http://www.lrbarms.com
 
#8
Re: m1a accuracy?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: H2O MAN</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you want a .308 semi-auto to scope for reliable precision look no further than Ron Smith at Smith Enterprise, Inc.

Over the years SEI has custom built four extremely accurate, ultra reliable M14s for me.
They are built on Norinco and Poly Tech receivers with a combination of USGI TRW, Chinese and SEI parts.
Three of them are tension bedded in SAGE EBR stocks and one is in a USGI synthetic stock with RRM.
Two have 22.0" barrels, two have 18.0" barrels. Standard and medium heavy profiles in each length.

SEI can build what you want on your choice of receiver with your choice of parts and stock.

The stock you choose dictates scoping options. I like the SAGE EBR stock and the scope mounts from LaRue and SAGE.

This is my SEI M21A5 Crazy Horse EBR

M21A5_EBR-2.jpg

</div></div>

Which scope mount you have on there? It looks like a Larue, but they don't make mounts for the M1A (or at least that is what they told me).
 
#9
Re: m1a accuracy?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: palmik</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

Which scope mount you have on there? It looks like a Larue, but they don't make mounts for the M1A (or at least that is what they told me). </div></div>

It is a LaRue LT-608 made specifically for the SAGE Mod 1 EBR stock, but it works on all SAGE stocks.
The 608 is not listed on their web site, you must call LaRue and place your order.
 
#11
Re: m1a accuracy?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Michael</div><div class="ubbcode-body">scope sure is way high in the air on that rig. </div></div>
The magnification adjustment ring is about 1/4 inch above the upper most portion of the ears on the rear sight.
The camera lens and angle make the distance look further than it actually is.
 
#13
Re: m1a accuracy?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: palmik</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Damn, that is a sweet mount. Curious how you get it in the stripper clip guide and mount it to the front rail. </div></div>

Dual throw levers secure the mount to the top rail of the stock. The stripper clip guide is not utilized.

LT-608b.jpg
 
#14
Re: m1a accuracy?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: H2O MAN</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

M21A5_EBR-2.jpg

</div></div>

how much did this rifle and all cost you?
 
#15
Re: m1a accuracy?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dirites</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: H2O MAN</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

</div></div>

how much did this rifle and all cost you? </div></div>

I don't have the exact total, but it would take more than $6K to replace it.
This number does not include the sound suppressor.

3076.jpg
 
#16
Re: m1a accuracy?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Michael</div><div class="ubbcode-body">scope sure is way high in the air on that rig.</div></div>





yet so many of the un-washed waxing brazen platitudes
 
#18
Re: m1a accuracy?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: H2O MAN</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dirites</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: H2O MAN</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

</div></div>

how much did this rifle and all cost you? </div></div>

I don't have the exact total, but it would take more than $6K to replace it.
This number does not include the sound suppressor.
</div></div>

And the only way to get like that is at SEI? or are there companies that offer the rifle similiar to this?
 
#19
Re: m1a accuracy?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dirites</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

And the only way to get like that is at SEI? or are there companies that offer the rifle similiar to this? </div></div>

SEI is the only M14 armorer building M21A5 Crazy Horse M14s for our military.
You can get a nice rifle built by another builder, but it won't be an M21A5 Crazy Horse.
 
#20
Re: m1a accuracy?

I have a preban M1A in standard form. Doing some work on it now but previously, it would do 1-2 MOA with the crappy Springfield Armory scope mount and their fixed 10x scope. With a quality stock, mount and scope I expect this gun will do 1MOA on a consistent basis.
 
#21
Re: m1a accuracy?

I've read in a "field manual" for the standard M1A that the "effective range" is 400-500 yards. Being that I am on forum full of people who "lol" at 500 yards, I am going to go ahead and say that the effective range is more like 900.

To answer your question though, I have heard of everything from 4 MOA to 1 MOA. There was another thread on here talking about how the EBR stock effected the accuracy, and apparently that had a significant effect on it.
I would say that the M1A is something that your looking for based on what you described your needs out of it are. But then again, this is the opinion of someone who desires the same rifle and already has an e-hard-on for them.

I've been looking at a lot of semi-auto .308s, and have come up with quite a few choices, but can't really decide because I don't have a definitive range needed, just definitive budget. (Your sympathy is welcome).... (joke).... (but really it's heart wrenching)
 
#22
Re: m1a accuracy?

A man's torso is a big target. A 4 MOA rifle with 20 shots available will probably be VERY effective at 500 yards against a bunch of guys coming at you with minimal cover. I know I wouldn't want to be on the muzzle end.

There was a great Civil War story about a squad of Rebs who took on a Union Arty. battery at 800 yards from a protected position. In a few minutes thay had killed all the horses, men and dismounted most of the Napoleons from their carriages. This with 58 caliber open sighted Minnie rifled muskets!

Masssed fire whether in 1863 or 2009 is still effective.
 
#23
Re: m1a accuracy?

And what accuracy are you getting?????


t<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: H2O MAN</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you want a .308 semi-auto to scope for reliable precision look no further than Ron Smith at Smith Enterprise, Inc.

Over the years SEI has custom built four extremely accurate, ultra reliable M14s for me.
They are built on Norinco and Poly Tech receivers with a combination of USGI TRW, Chinese and SEI parts.
Three of them are tension bedded in SAGE EBR stocks and one is in a USGI synthetic stock with RRM.
Two have 22.0" barrels, two have 18.0" barrels. Standard and medium heavy profiles in each length.

SEI can build what you want on your choice of receiver with your choice of parts and stock.

The stock you choose dictates scoping options. I like the SAGE EBR stock and the scope mounts from LaRue and SAGE.

This is my SEI M21A5 Crazy Horse EBR

M21A5_EBR-2.jpg

</div></div>
 
#24
Re: m1a accuracy?

Several things need to be considered.
M14 Rifle acceptance accuracy was 5.5" at 100 yards with acceptance ammo.
M16 Acceptance accuracy is 4.5" at 100 yards. Average delivery I have tested runs about 3.5" with control lot acceptance ammo.
M1 Garand was 5" at 100 yards.

USAMTU acceptance on a match M14 was 4.5" at 300 yards from a FA mount.
Never heard what the Marine Corps acceptance was for their match rifles but I have seen the test groups fired at Quantico and I would say they are similar.

I would love to see what the acceptance is for AK 47s as the ones I have seen with Chicom ammo are FB.



Remington's acceptance accuracy for 700 Varmint was 1.5" at 100. Don't know about now but see no reason to change.

SAAMI recommendation if I remember right is 3.5" at 100 yards. And that is a recommendation and not a requirement.
 
#25
Re: m1a accuracy?

My early M1A with a lug on the rear of the rear and bedded by a much younger me in a military target stock, SA ART IV mounted in a SA two point mount, consistently shoots 1.5" off the bench at 200yd with Hirtenberger surplus. I have to have a valium now to stop the shakes, and sooner(rather than later) new glass. But it still astounds me. I've had it for 30years,two wives,and two vulture son's arguing over who gets it when I'm gone. Gotta love em, M1A's not the bastard offspring.
 
#26
Re: m1a accuracy?

Hummer.
You are pretty much right on. If I remember correctly the Marine Corps Rifle Team would accept an M14 from the RTE shop if it held 1.3 MOA or less. Several times I've seen the better shooters clean (Shoot 10X's) on the 200yd and 300yd rapid fire stages. I think the x-ring at 300 was 3" dia.
In '08 I bought a bone stock Springfield Scout Squad . The trigger sucked ass, so I sent the stick to a retired Marine Rifle Team member I used to shoot with in Quantico.
He performed a little voodoo including replacing the factory stock with his old "across the course" Mcmillan stock. Long story short, from the test facility it fired four 5 round groups averaging 1.07 MOA at 300 yds using a variety of ammo. Smallest group was 2.818", largest was 3.44".
FGMM 175gr yielded the tightest group.
Here's pics.

M1AGroupsKnives005.jpg


M1AGroupsKnives004-1.jpg


M1AGroupsKnives003.jpg


M1AGroupsKnives002.jpg


Wish I hold a group like that using irons...
 
#27
Re: m1a accuracy?

The standard for the Big Team guns IIRC was 5, 10 shot groups out of the 300yd test cradle no larger than 3 inches. I believe other guns such as the M39 do 3, 5 shot groups of 3 inches. Curious who your smith was? I've had the good fortune to know a few 2112's over the years.

Those targets are signed by Kevin Kistler, former USMC hardgun and of late, test cradle operator. Sadly, he died earlier this year of injuries sustained in a car accident. It was poignant for me to see those signed targets.

I'll see if I can dig up a pic of GySgt Kistler in the test shed.
 
#28
Re: m1a accuracy?

Chris,
Kevin did the work himself. It was his stock he put on the stick for me. When I sent it down all I asked for was a trigger job. He went far beyond the call there. Kevin was a very special guy.
He also was building another rifle for me when he passed. One of his fellow Marines was kind enough to finish it off for me.
See it here.

http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1479816#Post1479816

Hope that worked.
 
#30
Re: m1a accuracy?

That is some awesome grouping there LegioX, GySgt Kistler sounds like a one of a kind guy and an excellent Marine, he definitely did some awesome work on that rifle. Much respect to him and his work.

Semper Fi
 
#31
Re: m1a accuracy?

If you mean the Marine Corps Rifle Team based at Quantico, yes. I got picked up the summer seasons of 1987 & 1988. I was not permanently attached though. My duty station was at West Loch, Pearl Harbour, HI. I didn't like it there much, so when I had the chance to shoot division matches I applied myself like a madman in order to shoot my way out of there.
Some of the best days of my life.
 
#32
Re: m1a accuracy?

Thanks Photon.
I consider myself very lucky to have served with him. I lost track of him for many years as well as many others. With the help of another Team mate we got hooked up and he volunteered his time to help me out.
As I grow older I realize the saying "Once a Marine, always a Marine" carries great meaning.
Semper Fi
LegioX
 
#34
Re: m1a accuracy?

LOL!
LegioX, I'm betting we've shared the range at some point and/or know some of the same folk! I shot the PacDiv in 90. Who was the 2112 there while you were shooting? I'll see if I can find some Puuloa pics for you.
 
#36
Re: m1a accuracy?

I'll post a little later Chris, I'm just off work and going home. It'll be 10hrs or so. Feel free to PM
I was at the Loch 85-88. Don't remember the 2112.
 
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