M1A National Match vs. M1A Supermatch ?

[qwaq]

Hello. The reason for this topic is that I was recently in a shop that had both the National Match M1A and the Supermatch M1A. First, I picked up the NM(9.8 pounds), and loved the feel. Since I was in the shop, I was in a standing position. Then, I picked up the Supermatch(11.2 pounds). The stock was thicker, and it seemed a little less comfortable at that moment due to the weight factor. My questions are:

1. They both have air guaged barrels. Is there a difference between a Douglas Premium of the Supermatch and the air guaged on the NM?

2. The specs are quite close for both. Why does the SM have the heavier and larger stock?

3. Is the SM generally used in standing and kneeling positions as much as the NM?

4. Is the Supermatch used in the same matches as the National Match?

Everything I read about the SM says it's a great gun. When I picked up the NM, it seemed more comfortable. Respectfully seeking advice on comparing these 2 guns. I have never shot either one, but intend to be using one with the iron sights, and standing, kneeling, and prone positions. Thank you in advance.

 

[oneshot onekill]

Re: M1A National Match vs. M1A Supermatch ?

Not sure why the stock is thicker but I liked it better on mine than the thinner stock on the NM. It was more comfortable. Also, if I remember correctly, the SM has a "Double Lugged" receiver for more rigidity. They bed them differently too if memory serves. I think also the trigger group was better tuned on the SM. Maybe it was just me but mine was still just an MOA rifle. Great for the matches that require that specific type of rifle but definitely NOT the most accurate rifle I've ever shot. Mine was an older "Pre-Ban" rifle. Couldn't keep a scope stable on it to save my life!... But I've seen newer mounts that look like they work. I had mine back around 1997 so my information is dated and may not even apply to the new ones.

 

[nbkky71]

Re: M1A National Match vs. M1A Supermatch ?

My answers are based upon the premise that both of these rifles are SA, Inc. factory guns...

The main difference between the NM and SM barrel is the profile & weight. The NM comes with a medium weight barrel and the SM comes with a heavy barrel. Also, the SM can be had with a Krieger barrel as well.

As I understand it, the SM stock was oversized to make it more rigid and reduce flexing. The SM also can be be had with a McMillan fiberglass stock, which is even more rigid than the wood stocks.

The NM and SM rifles are designed to be used in competitive shooting and are shot in the standing, sitting and prone positions. The M1A/M14 can still be seen on the firing line nowadays but has mainly been replaced by the AR15. However, they're still legal as service rifles in CMP Trophy Matches and NRA Highpower matches.

Unless you're shooting highmaster scores, you probably are better off buying the NM rifle and shooting that until your skills evolve. SM rifles are *expensive* and offer little benefit to the new shooter.

oneshot onekill: I believe that the current crop of SM rifles are single lug (rear). The lugs simply provide additional bedding surfaces and extends the life of the bedding.

 

[qwaq]

Re: M1A National Match vs. M1A Supermatch ?

Thank you for the replies. This was in the context of Springfield Armory M1A.

What is the difference between the medium weight barrel and the heavy weight?

Also, I've been searching the web for any differences between the black and stainless barrels. One thing I read was that the stainless resists throat erosion a bit better. Any ideas on that?

Again, thank you for responding.

 

[nbkky71]

Re: M1A National Match vs. M1A Supermatch ?

The differences are mainly weight and exterior profile qwaq. Twist rate is either 1:10 or 1:12.

As for carbon vs. stainless barrels: there's no magic number at which throat erosion causes accuracy to drop off. You might get a bit more life out of a stainless barrel, but it's really going to depend on the load you're shooting, as well as your cleaning & shooting habits.

 

[qwaq]

Re: M1A National Match vs. M1A Supermatch ?

nbkky71: Thank you for the information. It helps a lot. These guns are so difficult to find in shops that it's not easy to figure out what's a good fit.

What characteristics does the heavier barrel offer vs the medium weight of the NM?

Is there any case to prefer a National Match over the Supermatch(forget about price)?

 

[Travelor]

Re: M1A National Match vs. M1A Supermatch ?

If you are shooting your M1A National Match competitively, the action will require re-bedding each year due to the design. If you are shooting the SuperMatch with the double lugged received, you will not have to re-bed annually. This is the real difference and why the SuperMatch is the go-to rifle for match shooters. The oversize stock is more rigid and preferred by the match shooters also.

George

 

[chrisj]

Re: M1A National Match vs. M1A Supermatch ?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Travelor</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you are shooting your M1A National Match competitively, the action will require re-bedding each year due to the design. If you are shooting the SuperMatch with the double lugged received, you will not have to re-bed annually. This is the real difference and why the SuperMatch is the go-to rifle for match shooters. The oversize stock is more rigid and preferred by the match shooters also.

George </div></div>

Whle the luged receivers are easier on the bedding, I wouldn't say that an unlugged/NM rifle would need to be bedded "everey year". I worked for a gunsmith that bult match/ NM rifles and there were M1A's that were bedded that lasted years. If you have a Mcmillan stock, you have a much better chance of keeping the bedding in good shape longer. The wood stocks may have the bedding loosen up quicker, ESpecially the factory wood stocks with Factory bedding. Get a good Bedding job from someone who works on M14/M1A's and it wll go much farther than the factory job.

 

[nbkky71]

Re: M1A National Match vs. M1A Supermatch ?

Honestly qwag, if you're <span style="font-weight: bold">seriously</span> ooking to get an M1A for competitive shooting, your best bet is to have one built by a gunsmith that knows & understands the M14/M1A. The cost should be reoughly about the same but you'll get a far better rifle than that of a factory NM/SM. Buy a used standard/loaded model and let the gun-plumber weave his magic.

If you have little/no experience with the M1A then you probably not be able to tell a difference in performance & accuracy between the NM and SM. You might as well save yourself the extra $$ and get the NM. Besides, you can always have it upgraded to SM specs later on down the road. Take the extra money you'd save and buy some ammo & magazines.

My M1A started out life as a loaded model and when I started shooting NRA Highpower I had my gunsmith upgrade to NM specs. Cost was about $1000 for the rifle and $700 for the NM upgrade. It shot well and was a solid 10-ring rifle. I eventually had the same rifle upgraded to SM specs and it cost another $1800 to do that, but I went full-tilt and got the McMillan stock, Barnett barrel and double lugs. So overall I've got a total of about $3500 invested into the rifle.

The SM is touted as a sub-MOA gun but most of them will shoot around 1MOA consistently. Be advised that the gun requires a little more attention to keep it accurate, but nothing outrageous.

The M1A is a sexy rifle and it has a special place in my heart. But if you really want to be competitive nowadays, buy yourself a NM AR15. I too put away my M1A a couple years ago and went to the black rifle and my scores shot up.

 

[Sterling Shooter]

Re: M1A National Match vs. M1A Supermatch ?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: nbkky71</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

The M1A is a sexy rifle and it has a special place in my heart. But if you really want to be competitive nowadays, buy yourself a NM AR15. I too put away my M1A a couple years ago and went to the black rifle and my scores shot up.</div></div>

That's the way I see it. A match conditioned AR is just plain easier to shoot than the M1A, although the sight radius of the M1A is real tempting.

 

[qwaq]

Re: M1A National Match vs. M1A Supermatch ?

Everyone, thank you for the information. It makes sense, and looks like the NM is the right choice for me. Again, thank you for taking the time to repond.

 

[9H_Cracka]

Re: M1A National Match vs. M1A Supermatch ?

Based on your questions and level of understanding of the sport, if you want to shoot a piece of history rather than a competitive rifle, shoot whichever of those variants you like best. There are actually three variants, not two, to consider. SuperMatch with the fiberglass stock gets you, surprise a McMillan fiberglass stock. Supermatch Wood gets you an oversized (versus USGI dimensions) wood stock that meets the NRA and CMP rulebook specs for an oversized stock. National Match gets you the NM parted/built/bedded rifle in a standard dimension aftermarket wood stock (no selector cutout).

If someone is serious about becoming proficient at the sport and using an M14 rifle, they don't shoot a factory Springfield, or if they do they have it worked over by one of the wigi board certified M14 smiths. Have a few chickens and virgins in your kit as spares to sacrifice as part of the ongoing tuning ritual trying to keep your M14 shooting somewhere around MOA.

Nothing wrong with shooting historic rifles - I shoot them often - just don't expect it to be competitive or you to be competitive with it. Without a doubt as a beginner you will shoot a higher score at ALL yardlines with an AR. To some people the score does not matter, rather just the participation in the event and shooting a rifle they enjoy. We welcome and need those people, so welcome to HP. Just don't confuse the M1A with being a good starting rifle if you want to progress rapidly and more economically thru the classification system.

 

[Emilio]

Re: M1A National Match vs. M1A Supermatch ?

Nine Hotel, can you recomend an M1A/M14 smith?

 

[9H_Cracka]

Re: M1A National Match vs. M1A Supermatch ?

Clint Fowler. Also since you are in Cali get hooked up with the local HP group out of Coligua (sp?) or Sacramento and see if they have someone out your way to use as the M14 does get shot a lot in Cali due to the AWB you got there.

 

[Emilio]

Re: M1A National Match vs. M1A Supermatch ?

Will do, thanks