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M1a w/ Jae stock
- Thread starter Thorsthighs
- Start date
All i plan on doing is going out on the farm and shooting at targets with buddies, still not sure about 308 or 6.5. I dont mind a weighty rifle or recoil. Distances would range from 100-800ish yards.
Ive never built a rifle and would plan on finding a experienced gunsmith.
Never owned a rifle and i dont want alot of cheap guns, looking for a few that are fun to shoot, well built and look awesome lol.
Ive never built a rifle and would plan on finding a experienced gunsmith.
Never owned a rifle and i dont want alot of cheap guns, looking for a few that are fun to shoot, well built and look awesome lol.
Get this barrel and you'll be happy. There's more to making an M14 accurate than a barrel. You'll probably end up trying several gas pistons, as well as playing with barrel band tension.
https://www.fulton-armory.com/barrelkrieger22nmhvywtss1x10whvyoprodguidetargetgray.aspx
You would probably come out ahead of you found a Supermatch built by Glen Nelson, or a Fulton Armory Peerless sniper barreled action.
https://www.fulton-armory.com/fultonarmoryusriflecal762mmm14-1-1-1-2-2-2-3.aspx
A 1-10 twist barrel is the most versatile.
https://www.fulton-armory.com/barrelkrieger22nmhvywtss1x10whvyoprodguidetargetgray.aspx
You would probably come out ahead of you found a Supermatch built by Glen Nelson, or a Fulton Armory Peerless sniper barreled action.
https://www.fulton-armory.com/fultonarmoryusriflecal762mmm14-1-1-1-2-2-2-3.aspx
A 1-10 twist barrel is the most versatile.
I not very familiar with them.
Would like to keep rifle cost under 3000 and then save for some glass.
I want a accurate rifle but it doesnt have to be sub moa.
Would like to keep rifle cost under 3000 and then save for some glass.
I want a accurate rifle but it doesnt have to be sub moa.
I've taken my Nelson build out numerous times. It has maintained accuracy extremely well. The bedding is something to behold. Mine is rear lugged in a wood stock too.
I’ve got a pre ban 94 Nelson build and the bedding is a work of art too. I’d feel like I was committing a sin if I dropped it into a chassis lol.
They pop up every now and then. Glen Nelson built rifles up until 1996 or 1997. They were sold by Springfield Armory as Supermatch rifles. Will a JAE stock work with a lugged receiver?
The Peerless rifle from Fulton with a built in scope mount is a better option if optics are in the build. LRB also makes a receiver or barreled action with a built in scope mount. I think Bula Forge does as well.
The Peerless rifle from Fulton with a built in scope mount is a better option if optics are in the build. LRB also makes a receiver or barreled action with a built in scope mount. I think Bula Forge does as well.
This is mine. I went with the super match.
It has a 22"; Twist 1 In 10"; RH; 6-Groove Douglas Heavy Match in Stainless Steel, a Sadlak Airborne scope mount, 2 Stage National Match Trigger and JAE FDE gen 3 stock. I’m shooting sub groups out to 300 and usually moa at 600 and 1.27-1.43 moa at 800 depending on the load. I will post some Dope later.
It has a 22"; Twist 1 In 10"; RH; 6-Groove Douglas Heavy Match in Stainless Steel, a Sadlak Airborne scope mount, 2 Stage National Match Trigger and JAE FDE gen 3 stock. I’m shooting sub groups out to 300 and usually moa at 600 and 1.27-1.43 moa at 800 depending on the load. I will post some Dope later.
Attachments
A few questions. Why an M1A for your first rifle? Are you determined to use a JAE stock? Are you prepared to be frustrated on a regular basis? The M14/M1A rifle is by far my favorite rifle but it also the most frustrating platform I have ever owned. Been shooting them for 26 years in every configuration imaginable and I can tell you they are a lot of work to get shooting decent and just as much to keep them shooting.
If you are planning on shooting to 800 yards or further I would start with an LRB M25 rear lug receiver and have it bedded into a Mcmillan M3A stock as my first choice or the same receiver in the JAE stock if that's your preference. I was never able to get the JAE to shoot as accurately as the bedded stocks and its a pain in the ass to screw around with the tension adjustment in the front to get the forward pressure just right. If its properly bedded the forward pressure will be correct from the start. The LRB M25 is not cheap but well worth the money for consistency. The dimensions are to spec and the scope rail is integral which is by far the most important aspect of a scoped M14. I tried too many times to use scope mounts attached to cast receivers that can be out of spec, shoot loose from hundreds of rds, or lose zero from getting knocked around. Sure, they work sometimes but I bought an LRB 12 years ago and never looked back.
Barrels are more preference than anything else. Heavier means stiffer and may resist heat build up a little better than a medium weight but honestly the person building the rifle matters more than the difference you will see between the two. My current barrel is a Bartlein 20" 1-11 medium weight and it's the most accurate M14 I've owned to date. Will regularly shoot 10rds into 1" at 100 yards with Lapua 175gr. Kreiger is the barrel I would recommend for a long range build as Bartlein will just cut a blank and your gunsmith would have to turn it down to proper dimensions. I have also owned Criterion barrels and they shoot very well. Just stay with a 1-12 or 1-11 twist. You never want to shoot anything heavier than a 175gr in these rifles unless you have an adjustable gas plug so I see no need to go faster than 1-11 unless you're running a 16-18" barrel in super cold temps.
Dave Ferrante who owns Heart Mountain Precision is the only guy I would feel comfortable building for me now. I have used all the big names and they have all come up short in some way that had me scratching my head. He is an ornery old cuss but knows his shit and you won't be disappointed with your rifle.
If you are planning on shooting to 800 yards or further I would start with an LRB M25 rear lug receiver and have it bedded into a Mcmillan M3A stock as my first choice or the same receiver in the JAE stock if that's your preference. I was never able to get the JAE to shoot as accurately as the bedded stocks and its a pain in the ass to screw around with the tension adjustment in the front to get the forward pressure just right. If its properly bedded the forward pressure will be correct from the start. The LRB M25 is not cheap but well worth the money for consistency. The dimensions are to spec and the scope rail is integral which is by far the most important aspect of a scoped M14. I tried too many times to use scope mounts attached to cast receivers that can be out of spec, shoot loose from hundreds of rds, or lose zero from getting knocked around. Sure, they work sometimes but I bought an LRB 12 years ago and never looked back.
Barrels are more preference than anything else. Heavier means stiffer and may resist heat build up a little better than a medium weight but honestly the person building the rifle matters more than the difference you will see between the two. My current barrel is a Bartlein 20" 1-11 medium weight and it's the most accurate M14 I've owned to date. Will regularly shoot 10rds into 1" at 100 yards with Lapua 175gr. Kreiger is the barrel I would recommend for a long range build as Bartlein will just cut a blank and your gunsmith would have to turn it down to proper dimensions. I have also owned Criterion barrels and they shoot very well. Just stay with a 1-12 or 1-11 twist. You never want to shoot anything heavier than a 175gr in these rifles unless you have an adjustable gas plug so I see no need to go faster than 1-11 unless you're running a 16-18" barrel in super cold temps.
Dave Ferrante who owns Heart Mountain Precision is the only guy I would feel comfortable building for me now. I have used all the big names and they have all come up short in some way that had me scratching my head. He is an ornery old cuss but knows his shit and you won't be disappointed with your rifle.
Never owned a rifle before and you want to spend 4k on an M1A? Hahaha who gave you that bright idea?
If I were starting over again I'd get one quality AR, one quality bolt gun in 308 and a fun 22 rifle. Don't forget optics you will want decent scopes too.
I've got the 22" Krieger Heavy 1in10 on mine and it shoots .6 MOA 5 shot groups very consistently. Had to play with the tensioner and an adjustable gas plug a bit to get her there, but now that she's there, she's a rock.
That is slick! What caliber?
What is the attachment on the side rail?
The AR-10....is your friend 
I agree with the others. For the money you're intending on investing in this rifle there are other platforms that will suit you much better. If you're stuck on the M1A action, got it, press and get to shooting.
But, you're in a GAP, SCAR MK20, JP and a number of AR-10 platforms for that kind of coin. Parts (aside from the SCAR although I think it would outlive you) are more available and user friendly.
I agree with the others. For the money you're intending on investing in this rifle there are other platforms that will suit you much better. If you're stuck on the M1A action, got it, press and get to shooting.
But, you're in a GAP, SCAR MK20, JP and a number of AR-10 platforms for that kind of coin. Parts (aside from the SCAR although I think it would outlive you) are more available and user friendly.
Starting with an M1A for your first build is doing it the hard way in every regard.
Not hard to find and purchase a good pre built M1A but it is hard to sell one.
If you are set on it, just be patient and one will show up.
There is nothing quite like going prone with a tight sling on a well built, accurate M1A that is properly sighted.
Not hard to find and purchase a good pre built M1A but it is hard to sell one.
If you are set on it, just be patient and one will show up.
There is nothing quite like going prone with a tight sling on a well built, accurate M1A that is properly sighted.
In the end i do want my money to go toward something that is reliable, how about the Lrb M25 complete action in a Jae with a good trigger group and glass
That is all nice stuff but I still not sure you are getting what you want and will enjoy. In the end, only you can make that decision. If you do the build, you can count on losing 50% or more should you decide you want to sell. Not sure why you are stuck on the JAE stock. The M1A is sort of a nostalgia build for most and that indicates a wood stock. If you want to go modern consider an AR platform.
It is all up to you but you seem to be ignoring the advice many have offered. Don't build. Find one and buy it if you must have an M1A. Let someone else lose the 50% on the front end. I will leave you to your decisions now as I doubt you are listening anyway.
Good luck with your project.
RTH
It is all up to you but you seem to be ignoring the advice many have offered. Don't build. Find one and buy it if you must have an M1A. Let someone else lose the 50% on the front end. I will leave you to your decisions now as I doubt you are listening anyway.
Good luck with your project.
RTH
That's a 7.62 and it is the M25 (single lug) action from LRB with integrated rail. Side rail panel had nothing attached to it and I have since removed all rail sections that were not in use.
It runs like a tank.
The JAE does a good job of solving some of the problems inherent with the M14-style platform with the lug slides. I have no problem dismounting the rifle from the chassis and remounting to the exact same zero so long as I use the same torque.
It runs like a tank.
The JAE does a good job of solving some of the problems inherent with the M14-style platform with the lug slides. I have no problem dismounting the rifle from the chassis and remounting to the exact same zero so long as I use the same torque.
Just because I dreamed of an M21 since my early teenage years. As long as you don’t expect it to be as consistently accurate as a Good AR you’ll have a lot of fun.
Fulton Armory M21
Fulton Armory M21
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I wouldn't, only reason I have an m1a is cali law. If I were in a free state I'd have a larue, LMT, seekins, basically pick your good AR10 there are lots of choices.
I think you're looking at a lot of money to satisfy a rather indistinct goal, based on minimal experience. Certainly no hanging offense, but I think you're jumping into things in midstream.
So let's reexamine the goal, and see what means can be reasonably applied to achieve it.
Hit targets at 100-800yd. No mention of terminal effects, just hitting targets.
IMHO, the .223 in an AR-15 is going to give you very effective accuracy out at 600yd, and still be hitting things with acceptable reliability out at 800 (a reasonably practical maximum distance), with factory ammo, too. Under the latter conditions, the rifle will probably still outshoot the shooter consistently.
I offer for your consideration the Stag Super Varminter. Currently very affordable, I own two of the predecessor model (Stag Model 6 Super Varminter). These are pretty serious and accurate rifles, enough so that a Mueller 8-32x44 scope is not overkill for its capability, while still remaining highly affordable. For $3000 you could do it twice and still have plenty of money available for capable factory ammo.
I own all the stuff I'm suggesting, and have done so for going on a decade. It works, gets the job done reliably, without excess expenditure. I acquired the second one to accommodate a second shooter in the household; it was one of the very last Stag sold before releasing the Super Varminter, which varies only in having a different buttstock as far as I can tell.
I also have a respectable amount of experience with the M-14 and M1a. I was issued the M-14 in 1966 and carried it in combat for over a year. I then owned an M1a and shot it scoped in competitive shooting for several years. My overall impression was that it was a pretty reliable rifle, and when it was up to speed could be relied upon for 1.5MOA under competitive conditions. The accuracy was sometimes iffy due to the wooden stock, scope mounting was a widespread issue for the rifle, and its best performance required handloads.
The AR's above are dead solid reliable, shoot sub-MOA under competitive conditions, do it very well using factory loads, can do even better with handloads, and are available in-hand for a fraction of your stated budget.
Greg
So let's reexamine the goal, and see what means can be reasonably applied to achieve it.
Hit targets at 100-800yd. No mention of terminal effects, just hitting targets.
IMHO, the .223 in an AR-15 is going to give you very effective accuracy out at 600yd, and still be hitting things with acceptable reliability out at 800 (a reasonably practical maximum distance), with factory ammo, too. Under the latter conditions, the rifle will probably still outshoot the shooter consistently.
I offer for your consideration the Stag Super Varminter. Currently very affordable, I own two of the predecessor model (Stag Model 6 Super Varminter). These are pretty serious and accurate rifles, enough so that a Mueller 8-32x44 scope is not overkill for its capability, while still remaining highly affordable. For $3000 you could do it twice and still have plenty of money available for capable factory ammo.
I own all the stuff I'm suggesting, and have done so for going on a decade. It works, gets the job done reliably, without excess expenditure. I acquired the second one to accommodate a second shooter in the household; it was one of the very last Stag sold before releasing the Super Varminter, which varies only in having a different buttstock as far as I can tell.
I also have a respectable amount of experience with the M-14 and M1a. I was issued the M-14 in 1966 and carried it in combat for over a year. I then owned an M1a and shot it scoped in competitive shooting for several years. My overall impression was that it was a pretty reliable rifle, and when it was up to speed could be relied upon for 1.5MOA under competitive conditions. The accuracy was sometimes iffy due to the wooden stock, scope mounting was a widespread issue for the rifle, and its best performance required handloads.
The AR's above are dead solid reliable, shoot sub-MOA under competitive conditions, do it very well using factory loads, can do even better with handloads, and are available in-hand for a fraction of your stated budget.
Greg
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Growing up as a kid i was always drawn to ranged combat in the movies i watched, games i played etc. I think in my head ive got Long Range tied in with Sniper Rifles.
The M1a/m21/m25 just look like sniper rifles to me and why i have been pursuing them.
The AR platform doesnt look like a sniper and probably why it hasnt stood out in the forefront for me. I didnt realize that Assualt rifles could deal with long distance well.
The Jae stock compared to other chassis i have seen is really unique looking. Going into buying a semi-auto i told myself i didnt want the most accurate and highest performing first rifle i could get.
I do appreciated everyones input
The M1a/m21/m25 just look like sniper rifles to me and why i have been pursuing them.
The AR platform doesnt look like a sniper and probably why it hasnt stood out in the forefront for me. I didnt realize that Assualt rifles could deal with long distance well.
The Jae stock compared to other chassis i have seen is really unique looking. Going into buying a semi-auto i told myself i didnt want the most accurate and highest performing first rifle i could get.
I do appreciated everyones input
Mine has the McMillan camo stock, saco lowell barrel, screwed glued gas cylinder, Harris bipod and leupold m3 scope so it's about as close to what you are talking about as is possible. The ergonomics suck compared to an AR and the scope is so high its painful in the prone even with a cheekpad but it does go bang every time and groups 1.5moa most of the time. The factory barrel lasted about 6500 rounds and when it went I said fuck it and spent money on all of the above stuff. I figured that if I was gonna blow money might as well go for broke.
The hard part about m1a advice is that there are fanboys who think it's the most amazing thing ever and there are people who shoot lots of rifles and give advice based on their experience. I'm telling you from experience that dollar for dollar your jae+lrb master plan is gonna be a waste of money.
If you want an m1a get a nice used standard preferably with usgi parts and wear the barrel out. JMHO
The hard part about m1a advice is that there are fanboys who think it's the most amazing thing ever and there are people who shoot lots of rifles and give advice based on their experience. I'm telling you from experience that dollar for dollar your jae+lrb master plan is gonna be a waste of money.
If you want an m1a get a nice used standard preferably with usgi parts and wear the barrel out. JMHO
Everyone's idea of ergonomics is different. A lot of times it has to do with what you may have picked up and shot for the first time or what some of us were trained on in the military. While I believe the 5.56 version of the AR is the most relevant combat weapon of our existence simply because of its versatility and the amount of rds one can carry, for prone shooting I would take an M1A all day every day.
The M1A was not designed to shot prone. But there was a need for a semi-auto sniper rifle at the time and it was easy to modify one to do so. Times have changed. If someone is serious about making one shoot and have repeatable performance then start with a foundation that was designed to do it and buy an LRB receiver with integral scope rail. It doesn't make sense to buy a JAE stock, a match quality barrel and have all the accuracy modifications done to the gas system and then put a garbage scope mount on a cast Springfield receiver.
A standard model will not do what he wants. If I remember correctly it was to shoot out to 800 yards. Sure could you pull the barreled action and attach a bipod rail to the stock and throw on a Sadlak or Smith Enterprise scope mount? Absolutely, I guess it depends on budget and what kind of accuracy you're looking for. I'll say 2-3 moa which is not where I would want to be.
And for everyone claiming .5 moa with your rifles please feel free to shoot a target with 5 5rd groups and post it here. Match grade rifles built by amorers who knew every accuracy trick in the book to shoot competitions had trouble achieving .75 moa. There is simply too many moving parts on these rifles not to mention the ejection process starting while the case is still under pressure to achieve that kind of consistency.
As for the scope height and discomfort shooting prone, the LRB and a Mcmillan M3A/JAE fix this. Mine could not be more comfortable to shoot.
hmmm, I claim consistent .6 moa for 5, but haven't taken any pictures of a group, but next time I go to the range, I can do that. Reference my earlier post re:lug slides, all the moving parts in the rifle aren't an issue with regards to accuracy unless they alter the geometry of the barrel and receiver vis-a-vis the chassis. (plenty moving in an AR10 too) If those move you will have accuracy problems. THe lug slides on the jae set to proper torque will do wonders for repeatability far greater than any bedding job will do.
With regards to the ejection process starting while the case was still under pressure (actually, I believe the issue you are referencing is the op rod moving to initiate ejection while the bullet is still in the barrel), Clint Fowler was a huge believer in using an adjustable gas plug to delay that action until the round has exited the muzzle. I have found that beginning with the plug at full open (single shot) and working a ladder test until you get both accuracy and consistent operation the way to go. THis has worked consistently on both my Garands and my m-14 pattern rifles.
THat said, I completely agree with your assessment on glass, that's one area the OP missed.
and that's a beautiful rifle you have there.
With regards to the ejection process starting while the case was still under pressure (actually, I believe the issue you are referencing is the op rod moving to initiate ejection while the bullet is still in the barrel), Clint Fowler was a huge believer in using an adjustable gas plug to delay that action until the round has exited the muzzle. I have found that beginning with the plug at full open (single shot) and working a ladder test until you get both accuracy and consistent operation the way to go. THis has worked consistently on both my Garands and my m-14 pattern rifles.
THat said, I completely agree with your assessment on glass, that's one area the OP missed.
and that's a beautiful rifle you have there.
But the lugs on the JAE only serve one purpose, to lock the receiver into the chassis with constant pressure and you still have to contend with the harmonics of the 2 mating surfaces. This is not an issue with a properly bedded stock/receiver and every M14 gunsmith that I have worked with has verified this. The difference is minimal but still noticeable given equal rifles and shooter. I had one and did not get the accuracy with the same barreled action as I did when it was bedded.
Neither option fixes the one thing that is a huge detriment to the 14 and not an AR. Free floated barrel. All the moving parts within contact of the barrel effect harmonics and it's crucial they return to exactly the same position after each and every shot which we know they don't hence the reason for unitizing and shimming gas cylinders, clearancing the hand guard, proper tension on the front ferrule etc. The AR has none of these concerns because the only moving part is the bolt assembly.
Nice job on the adjustable plug, you have more patience then I do. I am sure it helps for the reasons above. Finding that node along with a load the rifle likes will go a long way to consistent accuracy. I just have no desire to keep messing with the gas and would prefer to shoot in all conditions with any load and not have to think about it.
Thanks, many frustrating years have gone into what that rifle is today.
I have the regular m1a mcmillan stock and can't get comfortable behind this thing in the prone, even with a basset low mount and the lowest rings I can find + padded cheekrest it still feels off. Not gonna spend for a JAE I've thrown enough money at this thing as it is.
Of course if you yank the scope off it becomes wonderful provided you dig the iron peep sights.
Of course if you yank the scope off it becomes wonderful provided you dig the iron peep sights.
Thanks for crushing my dreams guys lol....i am convinced and wont be buying a new m1a/jae set up brand new, if one comes along used for the right price i might pull the trigger.
So AR's aside are there any modern rifles out there that would have the look and functionality as a sniper rifle?
I got side tracked and bought a Sig Sauer P226 so i have time to kill while i keep saving up for my rifle!
So AR's aside are there any modern rifles out there that would have the look and functionality as a sniper rifle?
I got side tracked and bought a Sig Sauer P226 so i have time to kill while i keep saving up for my rifle!
Kid at heart maybe, and definately dont know 100% what i want, thats what im here for. I know i want a semi-auto that looks sniper-esque. If its not cheap fine, if it takes me 5 years or whatever to save up for it so be it, ill love it even more lol.
Several AR type rifles are fielded as “sniper rifles”. KAC M110 (SR-25) LMT L129A1 (MWS), H&K G28 (M110), And Mk12 come to mind. Police “snipers” use the above mentioned as well as Larue, Seekins, Oberland, and I’ve seen local SWAT “snipers” with Daniel Defense DD5’s.
Maybe you should look into the H&K PSG-1, Sig SG 550-1, or even a Dragunov.
If you want an M14, go for it. There are better options though.
Maybe you should look into the H&K PSG-1, Sig SG 550-1, or even a Dragunov.
If you want an M14, go for it. There are better options though.
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Thanks for the advice ive learned that buying is not the way to go, especially with my lack of knowledge with gas guns.
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