M40 Build - Donor Rifle Found!

N

ncoutdoorsman

Sergeant
Minuteman
Aug 3, 2008
96
0
Wilmington, NC
#1
Guys,

I've been wanting to do an M40 build for a while now, so i've been searching for the correct donor rifle to use for the project. I am no pioneer in doing an M40 build and wanted to give credit & a big thank you to Matt (monteboy84) for his detailed post on his M40 project.

Just for kicks, im going to share my experience in this thread over the next few months on my build.

Lets get started...

The requirements of the donor rifle to achieve a replica as close as possible are pretty tough to meet, and the rifles are TOUGH to find, but Im happy to report after several days & long hours of looking, I found one to use. Here she is..

1.jpg


2.jpg


About the rifle. It's an early Remington 700 chambered in 22-250. This is fine by me since the 22-250 shares the same size bolt head for the .308 it will become. Side note (if anyone wants the barrel, let me know)

But what makes this rifle a perfect donor is next 3 key traits...
- it has the correct small bolt shroud.
- it has a 6 digit serial number
- it is factory clip slotted. I confirmed this before buying it. Though you can't tell from the picture due to the rear scope base.

I will try to determine the exact year of the rifle when it arrives.

More details to come, but for now, im thrilled and had to share!
 
#2
Re: M40 Build - Donor Rifle Found!

If you call/email Remington they will give you the date of manufacture of your rifle. Congrats man! I know how excited I was when I got the "right" action for my M40a1.
 
#4
Re: M40 Build - Donor Rifle Found!

Be careful of the clip slot vs. the square cut out for the clip "holder". Not sure if anyone here has the two pictures, but they are different. Good luck, are you going to do an M40 or M40A1? Very different animals.
Chad
 
#5
Re: M40 Build - Donor Rifle Found!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: chad3</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Be careful of the clip slot vs. the square cut out for the clip "holder". Not sure if anyone here has the two pictures, but they are different. Good luck, are you going to do an M40 or M40A1? Very different animals.
Chad </div></div>
+1, The earliest 700 actions were cut for clip loading via an adapter that would fit onto the top of the receiver bridge. The cut out is too wide to be properly clip slotted per spec. This would not prevent one from using this action to do an M40 build, the Redfield base does not require a clipslotted action and will cover the cut out section completely.
 
#6
Re: M40 Build - Donor Rifle Found!

Thanks Chad,

Yes, an M40. Here are the two seperate slots to which you are referring. The first is a picture of the slot that matt did.
The second picture has what my rifle has, the standard slot for the adapter I suppose.

If my receiver cannot be milled to normal the clip-slot then I've run into my first problem with my build. A pretty big one if I am trying to make it spec.

I knew the two were different, but I thought the "square slot" could be milled to become the "clip slot", along with the front of the receiver being milled a bit for the bullet nose passing.

Who knows the answer to this question?

CIMG0310.jpg


slot1.jpg
 
#8
Re: M40 Build - Donor Rifle Found!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mcm308</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Actually, both of those slots are incorrect for an M40 build. </div></div>

Elaborate please.
 
#9
Re: M40 Build - Donor Rifle Found!

A1-clip-slot.gif


See that picture..totally different... the rear semi-circle cutout's at the back of the slot are actually drilled on a slight angle and do not go through the bridge competely.. tough to do and only a few can do it correctly
 
#11
Re: M40 Build - Donor Rifle Found!

Ohh.. I see. Does this method "catch" the stripper clip from touching the bolt or bottom of the receiver.

I know were really talking about a mute point since it cannot be used once the scope is in place, but I DO want it to be as accurate as possible.

Am I up a creek since I already have purchased one with the square cut?

I was actually seeking one out that had this since I saw it in the Small Arms Review M40 PDF... take a look...

http://www.smallarmsreview.com/pdf/m40.pdf
 
#14
Re: M40 Build - Donor Rifle Found!

Then I'm pretty sure your good to go for an early M40. That clipslot in the 1st photo looks like a hack did it. Never seen anything like it... sorry to say
 
#16
Re: M40 Build - Donor Rifle Found!

MCM308, great picture of the clip slot, also NCoutdoorsman check with Remington, I was pretty sure they had stopped cutting the square clip slot on six digit rifles.
 
#17
Re: M40 Build - Donor Rifle Found!

I'm not sure it can be modified to the correct slot.. I was correct in the beginning when I said both slots were wrong and it was stated in that article that the Slots for the Marines were slightly different from the commercial...Which you got.. Your commercial slot ended in 64' and M40's began in 66' with the type of slot that I posted... I'm not sure if it can be corrected. here is a quote from the article...
"Also of note, the action has the clip charger
slot cut into the rear bridge, a feature that
was dropped in 1964 on commercial rifles
but was present on all Marine contract
rifles, though it is styled a little different."

The slot I posted is the correct slot... Being that your receiver has the commercial slot that ended in 64' it's technically to early but will still work. Not sure if it can be machined to spec
 
#18
Re: M40 Build - Donor Rifle Found!

Yeah, I caught that in the article as well. I just figured the slot could be machined to spec. Since the author sought out that slot for his build, I thought I would do the same.

Now, whether I have a true clip slot, or just the square cut is yet to be seen. I was told it does have a clip slot, though it is an easy mistake to make for those unfamiliar with them.

I wont know until its in my hands as to which type I have and I remove the scope and base.
 
#19
Re: M40 Build - Donor Rifle Found!

MCM308, you are correct on Remington ending the square clip slot in 1964, my five digit rifle has the square slot, short bolt shroud and high safety, but I was pretty sure this wasn't a feature on the six-digit rifles. I had my rifles square slot modified and it looks pretty good. I will try to post some pictures tonight, I was unaware of any rifles other than those Remington built for the USMC and some others having a clip slot, certainly common six-digit rifles, unless it was in a transistion period.NCoutdoorsman I would definetely check with Remington about the rifles history.
 
#20
Re: M40 Build - Donor Rifle Found!

Choose your "experts" wisely!

Here's what I've learned about "magazine cuts" and clip slots on the early Remington 700 actions -

Remington machined a rather long rectangular magazine cut into the top of the receiver bridge that was intended to work in conjunction with a screw-on adaptor to facilitate clip-loading the magazine, especially useful for the rapid-fire Highpower target matches. This began with the first 721/722 rifles and continued on the M700's until the 1966 production*. This magazine cut was not the same as the clip slot modification that was found on the USMC m40 sniper rifles.
*ref. p.88, "The Remington 700, A History and Users Manual" by John Lacy.

There were "at least two variations of clip-feeding slot found on the Vietnam-era M700/M40 sniper rifles .......*
*ref. p.143 "The One-Round War, USMC Scout-Snipers in Vietnam" by Peter Senich, w/photo.

Senich goes on to explain this in some detail. I suggest that anyone contemplating an authentic M40 reproduction (or clone) buildup buy this book and study it well before investing a dime on parts. I did that, and I'm sure that I saved a whole bunch of money, time, and heartaches because of it.

That's my contribution to this thread, now it's up to you to take it or leave it
smile.gif
 
#21
Re: M40 Build - Donor Rifle Found!

And a good contribution it was. I looked up Senich's book and found it on Amazon. As for reading it before investing a dime, I can already say, its too late for that.

I have emailed Remington with my 6 digit serial to learn what I can about what year it is. I would think pretty early since the first three digits are 148XXX. But as I mentioned before, we'll see what I really have when it gets here. I too will post pictures.

As for how close I can get my build to a full spec USMC M40, we'll see. If the clip slot turns out to be a square for that adapter, i'll live with it since the bolt shroud and serial are correct.

If its the square cut, what would you do?
 
#22
Re: M40 Build - Donor Rifle Found!

Do you plan on going the whole way with this build? As in getting the correct stock, and going for the Redfield 3x9 scope with the Redfield bases? Just asking out of curiosity. I think that the clipslot wouldnt be a problem to fix if you can find a good gunsmith that knows what he is doing. Good luck with your build.
 
#23
Re: M40 Build - Donor Rifle Found!

Ill tell ya what....you could just buy mine and save yourself the hassel!! Even has a Unertl on it!! The only thing left to do is to have the thing clip slotted by GAP....which is fairly cheap if you ask me....

Check my posts for my list....
 
#24
Re: M40 Build - Donor Rifle Found!

I was just thinking... no matter what I have, clip slot, or square cut, I am still going to build my clone.

Once I put my Redfield Jr 1pc base on the thing, having either slot wont make a difference as they will be hidden from sight and unusable with the base mounted just like the original M40s.

Its actually a mystery to me why the USMC slotted actions in the first place on a rifle intended to be scoped. If you cant use the slot with a scope, its reasonable to believe that damaged optics could be removed in combat and the gun still be made useful, but this is not the case since there were no iron sights on the barrel that could be utilized if the scope was removed.

Im sure there is a reason, but I am failing to understand it.
 
#25
Re: M40 Build - Donor Rifle Found!

Yeah, I fully intend on taking this build every step I can, which includes a dull oil finished stock without checkering, a redfield accurange 3x9 scope and a bdl floorplate installed.

I love these kinds of projects, but I want to complete it... educated.
 
#26
Re: M40 Build - Donor Rifle Found!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ncoutdoorsman</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I was just thinking... no matter what I have, clip slot, or square cut, I am still going to build my clone.

Once I put my Redfield Jr 1pc base on the thing, having either slot wont make a difference as they will be hidden from sight and unusable with the base mounted just like the original M40s.

Its actually a mystery to me why the USMC slotted actions in the first place on a rifle intended to be scoped. If you cant use the slot with a scope, its reasonable to believe that damaged optics could be removed in combat and the gun still be made useful, but this is not the case since there were no iron sights on the barrel that could be utilized if the scope was removed.

Im sure there is a reason, but I am failing to understand it.</div></div>

It was my understanding that the Marine Corps purchased off the shelf "Target" rifles from Remington....of which the original barrels would actually have the screw holes for the front target sight and the two holes on the left of the action for the rear aperture....
 
#27
Re: M40 Build - Donor Rifle Found!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ncoutdoorsman</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I have emailed Remington with my 6 digit serial to learn what I can about what year it is. I would think pretty early since the first three digits are 148XXX. But as I mentioned before, we'll see what I really have when it gets here. I too will post pictures.

As for how close I can get my build to a full spec USMC M40, we'll see. If the clip slot turns out to be a square for that adapter, i'll live with it since the bolt shroud and serial are correct.

If its the square cut, what would you do?

</div></div>

I made the exact same mistake. My 1st 6 digit has the square cut and is 107xxx with a .223 bolt face. You may want to research it a little more but I think the 6 digit receivers used were above 168xxx. I will probably use the low S/N action for a beginner rifle for my boy.

This is from the M40A1 build guide in the rifle section. I would hope the info would be gone if not correct.

It seems that the original actions for the M40a1 came from the M40's that were retrofitted, and were the 6 digit actions manufactured between '66 and '71. The numbers for the original actions were between 168,179 thru 322,769. These actions were replaced or augmented over time. About 100 additional C prefix actions were purchased from Remington in '92 for this reason. I also asked George about his, and he said that there were more E prefix actions in service than anything else.



Hope this helps.

Trilogymac

 
#28
Re: M40 Build - Donor Rifle Found!

The M40 slot was the Rem 40X slot that was used on the target rifles. I remember reading that somewhere but don't know where. My understanding is that the slot was used for scope mounting support When John Unertl fabbed the original bases with the lugs to fit the 40X slot when the 40 switched to the A1. Either way, build it, you already dumped the flow and it won't be seen
 
#29
Re: M40 Build - Donor Rifle Found!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ncoutdoorsman</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
As for how close I can get my build to a full spec USMC M40, we'll see. If the clip slot turns out to be a square for that adapter, i'll live with it since the bolt shroud and serial are correct.</div></div>
Sorry, but this serial is not correct. Close, sure, short bolt shroud, yes, but not correct. Check the M40A1 build page, it gives the serial # ranges (these were first M40's before being rebuilt into the A1).
Not that you have a bad receiver, but depending on what you want to do, you are losing from the start.
Chad
 
#30
Re: M40 Build - Donor Rifle Found!

Build it. shoot it .enjoy it. I'm sorry but it's not a real one no matter which way you shake it. I think you'll enjoy the rifle no matter what. But then again it wouldn't matter to me. But I'm not you. I guess what I'm trying to say is it's a repleca rifle. If you want and like the way they look build it you'll still enjoy it.
 
#31
Re: M40 Build - Donor Rifle Found!

Buy Senichs book, THE ONE ROUND WAR before you do anything else there is a wealth of information in it, actually buy all his books and read them. I suppose you could throw Pegler into the must read group as well, Senichs book as all the guidelines on building an excellent M40.

As for choosing your experts wisely
I must agree with Spotcheckbilly for even the foremost Remington 700 author John Lacy got some of his facts wrong in his book.
 
#32
Re: M40 Build - Donor Rifle Found!

IIRC George at GAP has a 2112 on his staff.....Im by no means a GAP Whore so dont think Im pushing him....but he DOES have the right guy for the application......

As for me Im picky as hell....I just couldnt live with it if it wasnt right....I just couldnt deal with saying it has the correct barrel....stock....bottom metal....trigger....safety....sling swivels...sling...scope mount....scope....but the wrong action.....I say look for the right one and build it right....I mean hell you are already looking to dump a ton of money in it....why do that if it isnt EXACTLY what you want it to be....so what if its covered up.....if you ever have to sell it that will detract from the value....and dont say you will NEVER sell it.....look at me...it took me 2 years of digging for parts to get mine together....I said I would NEVER sell it....but my family is more important to me than that rifle in times like this....
 
#35
Re: M40 Build - Donor Rifle Found!

First off I made myself a promise to not post anymore after being so eloquently informed that my time and attempt at correct info was not an important contribution to the site, only my money to the "Online Training" really mattered. Anyway...... I will go against my better judgement in order to try and clarify a bit of what I have learned.

My guess is your 148XXX rifle/receiver was made Sept to Dec of '65?????


First off the "factory clip slot ended in 1964" is incorrect. I have a 236XXX receiver in the safe with a barrel date of 9/66 with it. Have seen them machined with the long slot in the rear bridge past 250XXX which would put some perhaps into 1967.

Second I am near positive that the M40 used the same clip slot design that the 40-XB repeater did at that time although I haven't seen a USMC M40 side by side with that same yr 40-XB. The 40-XB repeater I had looked exactly like the one mcm308 pictured.


According to Sennich's book "The Long-Range War" the earliest documented 700 is 168346 made in 5/66. Latest 6 digit is 322764. The pic of the 168346 is factory clip slotted. The book states that the <span style="font-weight: bold">M40's were assembled in the Remington Custom Shop </span> . It don't state such but they could have been hand picked from Varmint Special barrels and assembled. Barreled actions were parked and bolt assemblies black oxide coated.

Scopes and bases were installed at Remington and marked after testing. 550 complete packages were shipped along with 150 rifles with Redfield base only.

123 rifles w/sites and 29 w/out sites were shipped to Marine Corps Supply Center, Albany, GA.

427 rifles w/sites and 121 without were shipped to Marine Corp Supply Center, Barstow, CA. This done in 8/66.

According to Rem records a total of 995 were manufactured from '66 -'71. In '73 the USMC showed only 425 remaining in the Corp worldwide.

If you can find one of the first 700P's made in the late 80's you can use the stock. A bit different finish. Also the forend needs to be rounded instead of beveled back and an aluminum buttplate installed. I haven't yet redid these pictured.

The 2 rifles pictured is just a factory Varmint Special barreled action in 222 and a 40-XR in 22 rimfire which has the near exact same contour as a Varmint Special.

Hope this helps. The Sennich books are worth the read if you are a Vietnam History buff.

Respectfully,
Dennis

Rem700walnutstocks002.jpg

40-XB22and308s001.jpg
<span style="font-weight: bold"> </span>
 
#36
Re: M40 Build - Donor Rifle Found!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: longrange****</div><div class="ubbcode-body">IIRC George at GAP has a 2112 on his staff.....Im by no means a GAP Whore so dont think Im pushing him....but he DOES have the right guy for the application......
</div></div>
Nope, Eric is now housed in the PWS for the USMC. He used to be at GAP, but I don't think anyone has replaced him.
Chad
 
#37
Re: M40 Build - Donor Rifle Found!

Excellent post Dennis, to this day I continue to look for the correct serial number range or even a rifle built by Remington to the same specs as the M40.
 
#38
Re: M40 Build - Donor Rifle Found!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mcm308</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
A1-clip-slot.gif


See that picture..totally different... the rear semi-circle cutout's at the back of the slot are actually drilled on a slight angle and do not go through the bridge competely.. tough to do and only a few can do it correctly </div></div>

I was given te opportunity to photogragh a Remington 700 that may or may not be an original M40, but the clipslot looks exactly like the one posted above by mcm308. The rifle was built in aug of 66 so it is a very early rifle and it still has the original barrel on it. The info from SDW is spot on. If you need pictures during your build, let me know and I can send them.
 
#39
Re: M40 Build - Donor Rifle Found!

I have an excellent condition, limited PD run, M700P w/24" factory fluted barrel. If anyone has a period correct action only I'd trade this barreled action w/trigger for just the action. Doesn't even need to have the trigger (got one already)! I'd much rather have a period correct action than canabilizing this great shooting M700P for my build (have the stock, BM, trigger, mag box/spring/follower, Redfield scope & mount, Scneider USMC contract barrel, the right action would really be the finishing touch! I'm ready to have this built already!!).... PM me with any interest! Thanks!

***Not for sale! Just trade for the right action!

Good to see you back Dennis!
 
#40
Re: M40 Build - Donor Rifle Found!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: longrange****</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

It was my understanding that the Marine Corps purchased off the shelf "Target" rifles from Remington....of which the original barrels would actually have the screw holes for the front target sight and the two holes on the left of the action for the rear aperture.... </div></div>

No... the original 1966 M40 barrels do not have any screw holes in them. They also do not have the commercial markings, just the date codes, proof and inspection markings.

Dave P
 
#41
Re: M40 Build - Donor Rifle Found!

Ok,

Remington has gotten back to me about the year manufactured. 1965 they say. They didnt mention a month. Guys I really appreciate all your help. I am learning a ton here, but now, honestly, i'm torn now as to what to do.

What do I do with a rifle that is only 8 months prior to when the original M40s were being built. Since its a 65' what slot can I expect to see under that scope base???

I have some choices here...

I can either sell the rifle and continue hunting down an action in the proper serial number range or accept that the action is close enough and build it anyway because like one of you said, its still going to be a replica M40 no matter which way you cut it. Even if I had the proper serial number, its still a replica.

One thing is for sure... The excitement I had in this project has soured to regret,... and the gun hasn't even arrived to my FFL.

Bummer.
 
#42
Re: M40 Build - Donor Rifle Found!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ncoutdoorsman</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Since its a 65' what slot can I expect to see under that scope base??? <span style="font-weight: bold">It will have the square factory cutout as pictured earlier but it isn't a clip slot per say </span>

I can either sell the rifle and continue hunting down an action in the proper serial number range or accept that the action is close enough and build it anyway because like one of you said, its still going to be a replica M40 no matter which way you cut it. Even if I had the proper serial number, its still a replica.

<span style="font-weight: bold">Your right, it is going to be a copy/replica no matter what. Only difference in your action and those used on the M40 is the serial number!!! How anal do you want to be with your build? </span>

One thing is for sure... The excitement I had in this project has soured to regret,... and the gun hasn't even arrived to my FFL. <span style="font-weight: bold"> Not trying to be an ass but in your first post you came off as if you had all the facts,"flat safety, 6 digit serial number and clip slotted", however you had too broad of specs and should have done more research to obtain the minute' details that the M40's were built upon</span>

</div></div>

At least now you now you know what you have to build upon instead of finding out a grand or 2 later that the platform you used isn't/wasn't close to what you thought!!!

It isn't going to shoot any different with 20,000+ added to the serial number!!!! Your choice as YOU are the only one that needs to be happy with what you spent.

Respectfully,
Dennis
 
#43
Re: M40 Build - Donor Rifle Found!

Dennis, I dont disagree at all that I should have done more research before any investment.

I thought I knew what was needed for a build and I was wrong.

Does the serial number being only 20,000 away bug me? Only on a resale level. I never say to myself i'm NEVER selling this one because we've all been there, said that, and learned that something else can take priority.

I've decided Im going to do the build. I am going to have it properly clip slotted, and continue on with the project. Because if I can make the rifle a perfect replica with the exception being a few numbers shy of the "proper" serial range, so be it.

Later on down the road if I stumble across the perfect action, i'll transfer everything from this rifle over to it.
 
#44
Re: M40 Build - Donor Rifle Found!

If you end up getting the "commercial" square cut slot ... Make sure it can be machined to the correct slot. I don't know if the dimensions will allow it. It might already be cut too wide if ya' know what I'm sayin.
 
#46
Re: M40 Build - Donor Rifle Found!

The picture I posted is of a commercial square cut, modified to clip slot that actually works, you can see how much material had to be removed to give the correct look.
 
#47
Re: M40 Build - Donor Rifle Found!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ncoutdoorsman</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I've decided Im going to do the build. I am going to have it properly clip slotted, and continue on with the project. Because if I can make the rifle a perfect replica with the exception being a few numbers shy of the "proper" serial range, so be it.

Later on down the road if I stumble across the perfect action, i'll transfer everything from this rifle over to it.</div></div>
Good for you with this part. A replica should be great. Don't even worry about the clip slotting then!!! Build a rifle you will like shooting and go from there. If you end up finding a proper receiver, you can pick it up. Save the cash from slotting to start the fund for it.
Chad
 
#48
Re: M40 Build - Donor Rifle Found!

Build your rifle and enjoy it!!! There are only X number of correct everythings for these rifles and your chance of finding one is slim. They all look the same hanging on the wall. One way or the other its still a reproduction.
 
#49
Re: M40 Build - Donor Rifle Found!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: raptor99</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Build your rifle and enjoy it!!! There are only X number of correct everythings for these rifles and your chance of finding one is slim. They all look the same hanging on the wall. One way or the other its still a reproduction.

</div></div>

good advice, i wouldn't hang it on the wall though, I can't stand the thought of owning a rifle I can't shoot.
 
#50
Re: M40 Build - Donor Rifle Found!

ncoutdoorsman, my copy has a 5 digit action, why? the rifle was being given away, its close enough and good enough for me. Yes I could have kept looking and spent hundreds more to find a rifle in the correct serial number range but I settled and wanted to get started with it. It sports a hart 24 inch barrel (830) flat crown, trued action, steel pt&g bottom metal, tubbs firing pin spring, pt&g firing pin, rebuilt trigger, milled follower, basically any improvements I could make I did. Its bedded in a plain jane walnut stock that I sanded into shape and stained, just learned from Dennis's threads that perhaps I should have been looking for an old 700p stock instead, they do look a lot closer to the orginal. Its got a gloss not satin accurange why again the price was right, i may end up painting the scope, i have a redfield base but the edges are a bit rounded not square like the original, but the rings are marked 1-66. How does it shoot at 100 yards the rounds touch even with the old scope and not so good stock. I am happy with it, its not the perfect M40 clone but I can say that an RTE from that era built it, which I suppose is something. Build your rifle shoot it, rifles are about enjoyment.
 
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