Rifle Scopes Magnification needed for 1K to 1 mile?

Mn_Shooter

Mn_Shooter

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Dec 23, 2008
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Minnesota
#1
As the title says... What would you recommend for magnification out to 1k? How about to 1 mile?

Oh yes... I've read the recommendations from vendors, writers, operators... and the more I read, the more I'm sure they weren't really talking about guys pushin' 50 with kind of tired eyes.

I've got a few choices already picked out. I'm just looking for some "real world" experience/recommendations for those ranges.
 
#3
Re: Magnification needed for 1K to 1 mile?

I have my Leupold Mk4 6.5-20 set at 16-17x or so out to 1K.. The furthest I've shot was a shade over 1100, and I think I was on 20 for that. I would really like to upgrade to a Nightforce 5.5-22x56 though.

One thing to think about is how many LONG shots did snipers in 'nam connect on, with fixed 10X scopes...
 
#4
Re: Magnification needed for 1K to 1 mile?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LRS_Ranger</div><div class="ubbcode-body">One thing to think about is how many LONG shots did snipers in 'nam connect on, with fixed 10X scopes... </div></div>

Roger that!! However, I'm fairly certain they were not pushin' fiddy.
wink.gif
 
#5
Re: Magnification needed for 1K to 1 mile?

Mn_Shooter,

Not sure what magnification has to with how old you are. I mean if your image through the scope is blurry @10x, 20x will not make it any clearer.

That's what your diopter adjustment is for. And if equipped your parallax adjustment.

If your eyes are tired, take a nap.....

As to what power for LR, 1x per each 100 yards, for most general shooting, like banging steel.

This is from a 60 year old shooter, who has worn glasses since age 12....

Bob
 
#6
Re: Magnification needed for 1K to 1 mile?

Anybody here that's been to a miltary school can attest, if you are a capable shooter with a capable rig, you can hit a target at 1 mile with 14 magnification. I personally think some guys on this site get hung up on 20-25X scopes WAY TOO MUCH, but like Sly said, "Different strokes for different folks"
 
#7
Re: Magnification needed for 1K to 1 mile?

im curious too, actually thought about this recently.
I shoot a fixed 30x Leupold for NRA Silhouette (standing), different game all together I know, but still curious on the pros and cons to shooting long distances with these fancy reticles and higher magnification.
 
#9
Re: Magnification needed for 1K to 1 mile?

Personally I feel that at this range, from my own personal experience, the shooter and the spotter must remember the weapons capabilities, the shooters capabilitties and the targets size. If you are trying to engage a 1 MOA target with a weapon that can only shoot 1.5 remember that your end result might be a mis initially but if your follow up shot is sent it could result in a hit. All too often I have seen spotters end a correction without considering this and the next shot is still a miss. I once called a miss and told my shooter give me the exact same sight picture and change nothing and people laughed and then we heared the beautiful gong at 1749m. Why did we achieve a hit? I had to explain that the target's size was out of the weapon's capabilities but the trace showed it was within the weapon's capabilities at that range and the DOPE was good. Some might call BS, but many here can attest that with experience comes the capability to give on the fly corrections. THIS COMES WITH PRACTICE PEOPLE! The #1 rule too shooting is this, know your weapon, know your DOPE, trust your knowledge and apply all of these toward your targets. If you doubt any you will fail
 
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#10
Re: Magnification needed for 1K to 1 mile?

I have shot 1,500 yards with a Barrett M82A1 using a 10x Unertl scope. I think it is hard to say, but anything above 10x should be within the ballpark of being useable. How about a US Optics SN-3? They are great scopes and will give you a good range of magnification.
 
#11
Re: Magnification needed for 1K to 1 mile?

My personal scopes for 1,000 to 1 mile plus are Nightforce 5.5-22 NXSs.

Work scope is a Schmidt-Bender 5-25 PM II.

Spotter is a Kowa 823 Prominar.

All are excellent and very clear in the cold. Very tough to see that far in some of the warmer/hazier states in the south and east through haze and mirage.
 
#13
Re: Magnification needed for 1K to 1 mile?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Santo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'd also go with the NF 5.5-22 NXS for 1000 yards+. </div></div>

+1
 
#16
Re: Magnification needed for 1K to 1 mile?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: popeye089</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Anybody here that's been to a miltary school can attest, if you are a capable shooter with a capable rig, you can hit a target at 1 mile with 14 magnification. I personally think some guys on this site get hung up on 20-25X scopes WAY TOO MUCH, but like Sly said, "Different strokes for different folks" </div></div>

+1. "And so on and so on and shoo-be-doobie doo on"
laugh.gif
 
#18
Re: Magnification needed for 1K to 1 mile?

Use a 3.5-15 NF for 600 and 1000 yd. F-class, have used 3.2-17 USO also. 338 LM has a 3.2-17 USO and have shot it out to 1 mile and didn't feel under scoped at all. Had a 3.8-22 USO and sold it to buy another 3.2-17, never made use of the extra mag, usually had it in the 18X range for distance work. 10X for me works great out to 600 to 700 yd. past that I like a little more mag., just spoiled I guess. Can still bang steel with a 4X ACOG out to 800, but it is getting harder.
 
#19
Re: Magnification needed for 1K to 1 mile?

When I shoot 1k+ I am glad I have the NF 5.5-22 I shoot the scope full power at pretty much any range over 200 yds and have no issues. I think if you were in a fighting scenario lower power would be preferred for more situational awarness but, what we are doing is target shooting mostly and the high power is nice.

CJG
 
#20
Re: Magnification needed for 1K to 1 mile?

I'm a magnification whore!
The Nightforce in either 5.5-22 or the 8-32 would work well for you.
If your eyes are pretty bad the 8-32 might be the route for you but you might have to contend with mirage which at higher magnification can be pretty painful in itself.

I would suggest looking through some glass to find out what works better for you, if you can.
 
#21
Re: Magnification needed for 1K to 1 mile?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Santo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'd also go with the NF 5.5-22 NXS for 1000 yards+.</div></div>
If you're shooting at Taliban at 2.5km, then this is the scope for you. I think it's the same type of scope used by the Canadian sniper who made the hit a couple years ago in Afghanistan (or perhaps it was a long Leupold).

A more general answer to your question would require some knowledge of the size of your targets and the weather conditions/atmospherics. A really hot, smoggy day in Los Angeles is very different optically from a clear, cool day in the high desert. I'm simply saying high magnification (>20x) may be useless under some atmospheric conditions, so think "variable".

 
#22
Re: Magnification needed for 1K to 1 mile?

In most cases for "tactical" and other dynamic settings you start having issues near 20X. The primary issue is you can't hold the bloody thing still. IMHO about 16 - 18X is max power usable by a normal guy with a sling or a bipod and a not so perfect position. For the BR and belly BR guys out there CRANK it UP!!!

The point many forget is the bottom end of the optic. Yes it's nice to have 25X on the top end but what do you do if you have to engage a mover at 30 yards?

Can you shoot to 1K or 1Mi with a 10X? Yep! and you can drag race in a minivan too.
laugh.gif


The point is how often are you going to shoot at 1K+?

Where will you do most of your shooting?

Do you have to carry this thing or just dump it out of the back of the truck?

Choose the tool to fit the job not the other way around.

Cheers,

Doc
 
#23
Re: Magnification needed for 1K to 1 mile?

I think a valid question to ask would be "how low do you need it to go?" Yes, 20-25x is not necessary for most field shooting, but if you are going to buy a high-dollar scope, why not get one that is capable of going that high, so long as the low-end magnification is not excessive? I think the Leupold 8.5-25 is pushing the limit of acceptable low-end magnification but the USO 5-25x58 is certainly useable at closer ranges. The USO 3.8-22 seems to be better in terms of versatility than the 3.2-17 model, and they are nearly identical in terms of size and weight. I may not need that extra magnification, but it can't hurt to have it available. So when I take the plunge and buy a USO for long-range shooting, I may not go all the way up to the 5-25x58, but I would prefer the 3.8-22 over the 3.2-17.

Note to self: hit "refresh" before responding to avoid reiterating what the last guy said.
 
#24
Re: Magnification needed for 1K to 1 mile?

This kind of discussion is what makes "The Hide" such a GREAT site!! Thanks to all for giving me so much to think about. I was hoping to "get by on a budget"... Looks like I may have to rethink that...

What's the saying? Buy once, cry once?
smile.gif


Thanks again everyone!!
 
#25
Re: Magnification needed for 1K to 1 mile?

I shot out to 1k at Camp Robi and we were using the fixed 10x on the M24. For the ranges your talking about I would give the advice of at least a 15x and on up from there depending on how you see through it. Hope this helps.
 
#26
Re: Magnification needed for 1K to 1 mile?

Well a choice/purchase has been made. I went with a Bushnell Elite 4200, 6-24x50, Mil/Mil FFP. Natchez had a blow out sale going on them. This will work fine until I finally have the funds for the NF I'm lusting after.

The price I paid for this, the torture test video and the fact I have another rifle this could go on made the choice that much easier.

Thanks for the help folks!!!
 
#27
Re: Magnification needed for 1K to 1 mile?

5.5-22 all the way...22x too much? Dial it down to 15...or 10..or 17.5. 22x may not be necessary in all situations, but it sure is nice to have as an option!
 
#28
Re: Magnification needed for 1K to 1 mile?

I would say it comes down to not only what range but what your intended kill zone is at the given range.

I shoot a 308 in F class out to 1200 yards and honestly I nearly always shoot on 42 power on my NF 12-42 NXS, NPR1.

HOWEVER, as others have pointed out, this is not practical for most hunting/tactical uses as the FOV is too small to track a running target.

I would suggest even a 8-80x March scope, if you can afford it, for 1000m + target shooting, but for hunting out to 1500m, a 5.5-22 or 8-32 NF, or comparable (maybe a S&B, again if budget allows), would be my next choice.

Can't wait till NF do a FFP 5.5-22 Mil/Mil scope.

mkm
 
#29
Re: Magnification needed for 1K to 1 mile?

OP, where do you plan on shooting from 1000yds to a mile? Not too many places to do that in the west metro area. There is only one range in the state that goes to 1000yards that I know of. No offense meant, just a question.
 
#31
Re: Magnification needed for 1K to 1 mile?

Not to be a dick but doesnt the Bushnell only have 50 moa of adjustment? You will be lucky to get to 1000, let alone a mile.
(I heard that is why the Bushys are on sale because the next generation is supposed to have some more usable moa)
To go a mile a 308 needs 100moa,a 300 win mag needs 56 moa and a 408 needs 48. I think you will be way short.

I have used a NF 5-22 to 1860 (338 lap and 408CT) and it worked great. With the 308 my 3-15 had 90 moa so at one mile I held over an additional 10 moa.
 
#32
Re: Magnification needed for 1K to 1 mile?

It sucks, but there are so many more things than just the high end magnification to consider, as has been said above.

I would aim for something to take on 1000 yards, as its a fair way out there anyway, then you could potentially use mildots to get to a mile if you really wanted.

Work from how many MOA/Mil you need first, then go from there. A top end from 10-25 will get you there, but the low end makes the difference.

Chris
 
#33
Re: Magnification needed for 1K to 1 mile?

Food for thought - I shoot 1k with guys shooting off slinged rifles with iron sights that can outscore me. When it comes to 1k+, being able to see details in your target will affect the accuracy of you shot far less than your ability to dope your shot.
I find that 16x is more than enough for the long range game.
 
#34
Re: Magnification needed for 1K to 1 mile?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mnshortdraw</div><div class="ubbcode-body">OP, where do you plan on shooting from 1000yds to a mile? Not too many places to do that in the west metro area. There is only one range in the state that goes to 1000yards that I know of. No offense meant, just a question. </div></div>

No offense taken... I too know of that one range and will be there and my own property for the "up to 1K" shots. As for the mile, if I ever get that good, I'll be heading out west. As in W-A-Y out west. As in out of state.

I'm not long for the cold snowy winters of Minnesota. I'll miss the walleye fishing, but that's about it. The cold and snow... meh. You can have them.
 
#35
Re: Magnification needed for 1K to 1 mile?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sandbogg</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Not to be a dick but doesnt the Bushnell only have 50 moa of adjustment? You will be lucky to get to 1000, let alone a mile.
(I heard that is why the Bushys are on sale because the next generation is supposed to have some more usable moa)
To go a mile a 308 needs 100moa,a 300 win mag needs 56 moa and a 408 needs 48. I think you will be way short.

I have used a NF 5-22 to 1860 (338 lap and 408CT) and it worked great. With the 308 my 3-15 had 90 moa so at one mile I held over an additional 10 moa. </div></div>

If I'm short with the bushy... No worries. It's a "band-aid" for me all the way around. I know I stated "buy once, cry once"... But at the price I paid... It's a good way to start. Especially when it will be used on a different gun well beyond the time I might run out of adjustment on my .300WM.
 
#36
Re: Magnification needed for 1K to 1 mile?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: HKinAK</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have shot 1,500 yards with a Barrett M82A1 using a 10x Unertl scope. I think it is hard to say, but anything above 10x should be within the ballpark of being useable. How about a US Optics SN-3? They are great scopes and will give you a good range of magnification. </div></div>

Thats what i put on my 7005R, couldn't be happier at the targets i would be engaging at 1000yds i don't believe i "need" more than 17x at times sure i wouldnt mind a little more power just to have it but is it absolutely necessary to make a hit on the target? Not to me anyway.
 
#37
Re: Magnification needed for 1K to 1 mile?

Quality of glass and repeatable turrets are more important factors than magnification. Just because a scope can go to 25X means nothing. It could have a horrible picture, tiny exit pupil, painful eye relief, etc, so what did you gain by 'going 25X?' A headache after an hour of shooting. 50 year old eyes and neck and back need forgiving eye relief and a good quality optic before considering power settings.

It also of course depends on the kind of shooting you are doing. My buddy with his 22 at 50-200 yards siting on a concrete bench wants more magnification (25x) than I use at 800+ yds. He is under no time pressure. His targets are static, square, well lit, etc.

A fixed 10X can nail torso size targets beyond 1000 if the guy running the trigger does his job.

If this helps, at a shoot last year I kept my 5.5-22 at 11X all day, even out past 800yds . . .

Today I was behind 3 rifles at 1000, and the one with an 8-32 NXS I turned down to around 18x, it was just easier to shoot at that power.

If I can remember tomorrow I will take through the scope pics from 1000 to 2000 with the new NF F1 at 15x. Today it did its job at 1000 yds. The reticle line will be a bit thick on small targets at distance, so it all depends on your target size (ie torso steel or paper size, vs 1 MOA size target).

I think the perfect all around scopes to 1000 are the USO 3.2-17 (GAP reticle) or the NF F1 3.5-15 (MLR2 reticle), but there are certainly other brands that have their fans as well. Take this as one opinion from over 40,000 on this board...

The best thing you can do is get behind all the ones you are considering, then you will really know what works for you.
 
#38
Re: Magnification needed for 1K to 1 mile?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mn_Shooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">As the title says... What would you recommend for magnification out to 1k? How about to 1 mile?

Oh yes... I've read the recommendations from vendors, writers, operators... and the more I read, the more I'm sure they weren't really talking about guys pushin' 50 with kind of tired eyes.

I've got a few choices already picked out. I'm just looking for some "real world" experience/recommendations for those ranges. </div></div>

if ya gotta ask ya prolly aint got no bidness askin.
 
#39
Re: Magnification needed for 1K to 1 mile?

Like has been said...it will depend on the glass quality.If a scope is top tier, then the high mag ( like 25x) will in fact be usable under most conditions ( save for mirage).If it's cheaper glass you may start to get blurry around 15x on a clear day.I have a NF 8-32x56 on my .50 and find most times out to 1500 I'm dialed back to 25 or so_On occasion 32x is usable but usually not necessary, and I'm pushing 52 myself.I think 25x is realistically the proper range....
Just saying....
 
#40
Re: Magnification needed for 1K to 1 mile?

Magnification is more for target identification than target engagement.

Have I shot to over a mile with a 10x? Yes, and I hit pretty well too, at least within the accuracy provided by the ammo and the platform.

HOWEVER.....

Would I have preferred to have a 20x mounted on that system at the time? You better believe it.

If you are putting together a dedicated LR rig, then a TOP TIER high magnification variable is a good choice.
 
#42
Re: Magnification needed for 1K to 1 mile?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Decider</div><div class="ubbcode-body">at that range, your eyes will probably be the least of your worries, with all of the other data and calculations required to be accurate.... I recommend the hubble telescope....

by the by, not true to say one shot one kill... it is more appropriate to say something like aim small miss small.... </div></div>

exactly my point.

put a different way, you can aproach this question 2 ways:
1) we can tell you what glass and setup to purchase and tell you that if this setup was in qualified hands it could theoretically produce such and such result or,
2) we can say borrow or buy a medium power type scope that is what is commonly used of decent quality as your budget allows and practice at distances until you can decide what is preferable to you.
in either case the power of the optic is really not the limiting factor to a nooby shooting distance.
 
#43
Re: Magnification needed for 1K to 1 mile?

anyone that says 10x is all you need, is a moron that's only doing it because they think that proves something. i've never got that...the 10x or die people.

for 200yds, i use from 10x-14x....and anywhere out past that...i want all i can get. i mean, if you're target shooting...why not give yourself every advantage you can????? there's never a place when too much magnification will hurt you, and if there is.....dial it back a little.
 
#44
Re: Magnification needed for 1K to 1 mile?

I dont contribute here much, I mostly lurk, because frankly, there are a lot of very well informed people on this board.

I do a good amount of shooting in between the 1000-2000m range (2-5 thousand rounds a year)and for all intents and purposes I find 15x magnification to be a good default. I shoot a mil-rad reticle and I find that the crosshairs can get too large at higher powers depending on the intended target.

I also am worried about my FOV when I am shooting. I do find anything above 15x nice for identifying targets, but not as precise as I would personally like for engaging.

As mentioned already, good glass beats high magnification and your environment is going to limit your ability to dial up that optic.
 
#45
Re: Magnification needed for 1K to 1 mile?

Of course, good glass <span style="text-decoration: underline">with</span> good magnification beats good glass without high magnification.

When you can't use higher magnification - you don't, but when you can - it may come handy.
 
#46
Re: Magnification needed for 1K to 1 mile?

[/quote]

No offense taken... I too know of that one range and will be there and my own property for the "up to 1K" shots. As for the mile, if I ever get that good, I'll be heading out west. As in W-A-Y out west. As in out of state.

I'm not long for the cold snowy winters of Minnesota. I'll miss the walleye fishing, but that's about it. The cold and snow... meh. You can have them. [/quote]
Understood. I also got sick of the winters, traffic, and crap economy and am way better off. I haven't started missing the walleye fishing yet. If you ever get up near Duluth, I have a spot with an 18" plate hung at 1200 yards.
 
#47
Re: Magnification needed for 1K to 1 mile?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: GSRswapandslow</div><div class="ubbcode-body">anyone that says 10x is all you need, is a moron that's only doing it because they think that proves something. i've never got that...the 10x or die people.

for 200yds, i use from 10x-14x....and anywhere out past that...i want all i can get. i mean, if you're target shooting...why not give yourself every advantage you can????? there's never a place when too much magnification will hurt you, and if there is.....dial it back a little. </div></div>

irespect that everyones preference will vary but i find too much magnification tends to magnify the tremors and psych a shooter out from taking a stable shot not to mention adding unwanted mirage. 10x-15x for 200 yards...are you makin this stuff up cuz i wouldnt even prefer an optic at those short ranges.
 
#48
Re: Magnification needed for 1K to 1 mile?

This question is so subjective my advice go to a shop with a wide variety of different scopes and look through them. You mentioned "tired eyes" could be a stigmatism and only certain glass/reticles will work with your eyes. As far as advice I have realized people suggest what they use/own so it's going to be a biased suggestion. Everyones eyes are different so test scopes. I will say this if you're planning on longer ranges most the time, higher mag is more suitable. You can always dial down a high mag scope, but you can't dial up a low mag.
 
#49
Re: Magnification needed for 1K to 1 mile?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: GSRswapandslow</div><div class="ubbcode-body">anyone that says 10x is all you need, is a moron that's only doing it because they think that proves something. i've never got that...the 10x or die people.

for 200yds, i use from 10x-14x....and anywhere out past that...i want all i can get. i mean, if you're target shooting...why not give yourself every advantage you can????? there's never a place when too much magnification will hurt you, and if there is.....dial it back a little.</div></div>

if this logic was sound then riddle me this batman; why do we not see modified spotting scopes zip stripped or ring mounted to the top of rifles? say the Leupold Mark 4 with Mil-dot reticle, there's a sweet fine line when too much is just that, TOO MUCH and will actually hinder your ability to engage zombies effectively at 1 mile
 
#50
Re: Magnification needed for 1K to 1 mile?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: VAJayJayPunisher</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: GSRswapandslow</div><div class="ubbcode-body">anyone that says 10x is all you need, is a moron that's only doing it because they think that proves something. i've never got that...the 10x or die people.

for 200yds, i use from 10x-14x....and anywhere out past that...i want all i can get. i mean, if you're target shooting...why not give yourself every advantage you can????? there's never a place when too much magnification will hurt you, and if there is.....dial it back a little.</div></div>

if this logic was sound then riddle me this batman; why do we not see modified spotting scopes zip stripped or ring mounted to the top of rifles? say the Leupold Mark 4 with Mil-dot reticle, there's a sweet fine line when too much is just that, TOO MUCH and will actually hinder your ability to engage zombies effectively at 1 mile </div></div>


actually jj i was just looking into ziptying a bsa spotter to ye ole sks spotter rifle this weekend,lol.
 
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