Making a 10mm out of a 40 S&W

[DannC]

I am not new to reloading but I want to go pig hunting with my nearly 25 year old Glock 24 with Lone Wolf 6 1/2 inch barrel with compensator. They only allow 10mm or larger in handguns. I found in a loading manual that Vitavouri N105 will give 1078 fps with a 200 Grain bullet with 7.8 grains. I worked up to 8.0 grains that gave 1225 fps with a Nosler 200 gr. JHP. Primers show only a little indication of excessive pressure. I still have a little more room in the case before I have a compressed loading. Has anyone tried this. The compensator and a 22 lb recoil spring seem to be handling the recoil just fine. I have stretched the OAL to 1.130 and still have reliable feeding. Your thoughts will be appreciated.

 

[427Cobra]

Since 40S&W shoots a 10mm bullet.......................

You can convert a 10mm to 40s&w but not the other way around

 

[FLIGHT762]

You're going to put your Eye out.

 

[Warpspeed]

Get a Glock 20. Problem solved.

 

[dauntedfuture]

I'm no hog hunting expert; .40 is a 10mm bullet so legally I think your OK. I think that bullet choice is going to be more of an issue then an extra 100 or so FPS. You are using an aftermarket barrel so that's a good thing. Provided your keen on pushing .40 to the edge, which I don't advise, I would buy some new brass. I have had, and others have had case failures in .40 through no fault of our own from shooting worn and reloaded brass that's been shot in a Glock. Provided its for hunting you would not need that much brass.

A better alternative is to look for and choose a box of hot, appropriate .40 ammunition and take that. Some factory stuff is hotter then others.

 

[918v]

Hodgdon Long Shot is the powder for 10mm-ising the .40 S&W. It is very forgiving in terms of pressure/velocity. You get 1150 FPS with 180's out of a 4" barrel. But if you're good with N105, then go for it. I would get the 22-round magazine if going after pigs. You'll need it.

 

[shoot4fun]

You're going to put your Eye out.

^^^^^

Through my years on the range with the USPSA crowd I have seen many catastrophic failures with the 40S&W. They were ALL caused by one thing; trying to make it do something it was not designed to do. Glock was especially prone to this due to the lack of a fully supported chamber. Maybe your KKM has a FS chamber but failures will still get you. Point blank..........do not risk it!

 

[Niles Coyote]

What shoot4fun said! that load would be a 245 power factor in USPSA... not good, it may work for a while but you certainly don't want to find out when it wont. I don’t know your hunting regulations but if you read 10mm, I’d bet they are naming a specific caliber and not bore size, so you still would not be in compliance.

 

[918v]

How can this lead to failure if he's not exceeding max pressure? What's the difference?

 

[Niles Coyote]

Reloading brass that has been fired in a glock with an unsupported chamber, or brass of unknown origin, what can happen is the case web blows and about 35,000psi rips through the plastic frame, hitting the rounds below it and deflecting to the sides where your hands are... If the OP knows he has a supported chamber and the brass was only fired in that handgun and is with in the min-max published data for the 40 cal S&W he will be ok. But... as I up dated the post above... I don’t know your hunting regulations but if you read 10mm, I’d bet they are naming a specific caliber and not bore size, so you still would not be in compliance.

 

[918v]

If you run your Glock fired brass through a GRX die, you'll be able to sort out cases prone to failure with ease. They'll let you know the casehead is bad when going through the carbide sizing ring. I lose about 5% of brass I find this way, but it's worth it.

 

[Bill Larson]

I believe most barrels will interchange..........

 

[dk17hmr]

A Gen3 Glock 20SF is running about $530 right now....I haven't priced reconstructive surgery lately but I'm guessing the Glock is cheaper.

25 year old Glock 40 S&W would be a gen 2 and I believe those are they ones that were being blown up when they first came on the market correct?

 

[918v]

He's using an aftermarket barrel with a tight chamber so the Gen2 problems do not apply.

 

[dk17hmr]

Fair enough....It has been awhile since I read about the gen2 problems, all my Glocks are gen3.

I would still suggest the Glock 20 though....a quick search on gunbroker yields several for around $400 right now. With a Lone Wolf barrel in 40 S&W the throat is long enough to load 40 S&W to 10mm length if you so choose. I use my 40S&W barrel for plinking with the 20 and the 10mm for mountain carry. Just my thoughts.

 

[Hairball]

JMHO but you should stick with the regs. If they say 10mm minimum then you need a 10mm. I don't think you can show up and try to convince them that your "special hand loads" are similar to 10mm as they may not take the chance that you have half a clue about what you are doing. Give them a call and explain what you are trying to do and see what they say. I have a few glock 20's and they are much larger (frame/barrel) than my model 22. In short, buy a model 20, borrow a model 20 or don't go on the pig hunt. As you don't have the option of getting a model 24 conversion/slide to make it a 10mm, you don't have many choices here.

 

[HodgdonExtreme]

Many 10mm hotrodders will tell you 40 cases loaded to 10mm length, will handle more pressure and abuse than 10mm cases.

Kinda like 6x47 performing right there with 243, because of the small primer and subsequent thicker case.

Obviously this ONLY applies with fully supported chambers and non-Glocked brass.

Ultimately, the limit will be set by the maximum COAL the G22 can reliably feed. As you increase COAL, case capacity increases (substantially for a pistol).

Another tip: be sure you only hotrod a 3 pin Glock!

 

[918v]

My 24 feeds 1.150" OAL just fine, in case you're wondering.

 

[jmorris]

Back when I was a kid I used to load 357 mag up close to 41 mag levels.

Now that I am older I take a 44 mag and down load it to 41 levels.

One way isn't as cool as the other but safe and brass and firearms will last a lot longer.

 

[DannC]

Thanks to all that responded to my post both pro and con. I have tried for over a year to find a Glock 20 Gen 4 at a reasonable price, That being said I originally bought the Lone Wolf barrel and compensator to shoot open class at IDPA and IPSC matches complete with Burris Fast Fire III. Only when I could not find a Gen 4 Glock that I decided to see if I could "hot rod" my Glock 24. It is well known that Elmer Keith and AO Ackly to name two of many that have successfully improved various caliper performance. The manager of the Hog Hunt Club is a knowlegable shooter and reloader. I have discussed my efforts with him and intend to take my chronograph and powder scale to demonstrate the 10mm power levels to him. These are feral pigs and not game animals that are not regulated by state game laws. The available factory cartridges from Buffalo Bore and Black Hills all use 180 gr. bullets to approximately 1300 fps, that equates to power factor of 234. My current load of a 200 gr. JHP at 1225 fps is 245. I don't believe that I exceeded a safe level. The mandate of a 10mm minimum cartridge is simply to insure that someone will not try to use a 9mm or 38 Super. I don't believe that a pig will know the difference between a bullet fired in a 40 S&W or 10mm. I do not currently hunt any game animals and would only shoot a nuisance, pest humanely for the meat. I do appreciate all the comments both the helpful and negative. I have a 44 mag and 454 Casull that I will carry as backup or for shots beyond 40 yards. The reason for the automatic is for faster follow up shots if needed and possible multiple pigs.

 

[longshotbml]

Dann are these club rules or state regulations? Typically state regulations refer to caliber not cartridge. For instance here in Michigan we can hunt deer with a handgun .35 caliber or larger. I won't get into a 9mm being legal here. The point is a .40 is 10mm and would be legal if the regulation refers to bore size. No sense trying to make that 40s&w something it isn't if you don't have to.

 

[jmorris]

I do not currently hunt any game animals and would only shoot a nuisance, pest humanely for the meat.

I have killed a lot of stuff I would not eat. For that matter I have trapped and poisoned a lot of animals that were a nuisance, that not only do I not care how they die but the fact that they do, never a plan on eating them.

Rats, mice, coyotes, the list can go on and on....Hogs have a side benifit of having parts that taste good but if they jack up a hay meadow, well just being gone is the point.

 

[DannC]

Hello longshotbml, this is not a state regulation but simply the land owners and Hunt Club requirements. These are feral pigs that can be hunted all year and at night if you choose. They are not game animals that are hunted seasonally with restrictions and bag limits. They do want humane kills and a wounded wild boar can be a nasty, vicious animal if cornered. For the hunters safety they more or less chose the 10mm as an acceptable minimum for handguns, so it should not mater if a bullet comes from a40 S&W or a 10mm if it has the ballistics of the 10mm. I opened this thread to learn from others on this forum what had already been accomplished with 40 S&W in maximizing its potential. I know I can buy a 10mm tomorrow if I wanted to simply fire the same bullet at the same velocities as I have already obtained from my 40 S&W, but why. After some of the comments made it is no longer about spending $500.00 for a new pistol but making a 25 year old Glock perform to its maximum. Thanks for your reply. DannC

 

[918v]

I wish somebody would ask me to eliminate their pig problem.

 

[jmorris]

I have killed them with pistols as small a .284, (7mmBR) but if you have a place to hunt, why piss the guy off? Just get what he wants and do what you want to do. You might as well argue "killing factor" of pistol rounds or rifle rounds for that matter.

In the end, you will just make the guy mad and he will send you packing.

A "club" should be read as "do as I say". If you don't like it just don't go.

 

[DannC]

Havi ng a failure to communicate

Some are not understanding that these pigs are destructive Pest that are uprooting a farmers corn, soybeans and peanut fields. The "Club" is simply a man who leases the land to allow him to charge $250.00 a day for the first pig taken and $50.00 for additional pigs. Includes skinning, quartering and packing on ice not simply killing for killing sake like varmint hunting. So some of you think that if I buy a 10mm pistol and a box of standard ammo (180 gr. bullet at 1050 fps) this would be legal and more ethical? What is wrong with using a 40 S&W with a 200 gr. bullet at 1225 fps. I think the lethalty of the bullet should be more important than a arbitrary caliper designation.

 

[SPEAK338]

You are way over thinking hunting pigs. 40 is a 10 mm bullet. Hunting with standard 40 ammo will be fine

 

[hlee]

I am not new to reloading but I want to go pig hunting with my nearly 25 year old Glock 24 with Lone Wolf 6 1/2 inch barrel with compensator. They only allow 10mm or larger in handguns. I found in a loading manual that Vitavouri N105 will give 1078 fps with a 200 Grain bullet with 7.8 grains. I worked up to 8.0 grains that gave 1225 fps with a Nosler 200 gr. JHP. Primers show only a little indication of excessive pressure. I still have a little more room in the case before I have a compressed loading. Has anyone tried this. The compensator and a 22 lb recoil spring seem to be handling the recoil just fine. I have stretched the OAL to 1.130 and still have reliable feeding. Your thoughts will be appreciated.

If the law stipulates that you use a minimum of a 10 mm auto for hunting, then you will be in violation of said law if you hunt with your 40 s&w. discussions of equivalency of ballistics due to hand loading prowess will fall upon the deaf ears of conservation officers, judges, and lawyers.

Now that I have read the rest of the replies, given that the 10 mm stipulation is a club rule and not a state law, go with the 40 s&w. I'm not sure i would even load hot. Pigs are not as tough as people like to say.

 

[jmorris]

Some are not understanding that these pigs are destructive Pest that are uprooting a farmers corn, soybeans and peanut fields. The "Club" is simply a man who leases the land to allow him to charge $250.00 a day for the first pig taken and $50.00 for additional pigs. Includes skinning, quartering and packing on ice not simply killing for killing sake like varmint hunting. So some of you think that if I buy a 10mm pistol and a box of standard ammo (180 gr. bullet at 1050 fps) this would be legal and more ethical? What is wrong with using a 40 S&W with a 200 gr. bullet at 1225 fps. I think the lethalty of the bullet should be more important than a arbitrary caliper designation.

I think they are not enough of a destructive pest to the farmer yet. If they were he would be paying you to kill them and wouldn't care if you used a squirt gun as long as they were dead.