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Manners Mini Chassis Bedding
- Thread starter spoonz
- Start date
Composite stocks get bedded. But chassis are aluminum and are either v block design of rollers. Either case there not meant to be bedded.
is it normally needed? no. it is not. don't just start by bedding
is it sometimes needed/helpful? yes. anyone who tells you otherwise is dumb
you shouldn't bed it right away. torque and move on. only if you have an issue not explainable by a variety of other things should you maybe look at bedding a chassis/mini chassis. even stocks like mcmillan and foundation shouldn't need to be bedded, but sometimes they are anyways
is it sometimes needed/helpful? yes. anyone who tells you otherwise is dumb
you shouldn't bed it right away. torque and move on. only if you have an issue not explainable by a variety of other things should you maybe look at bedding a chassis/mini chassis. even stocks like mcmillan and foundation shouldn't need to be bedded, but sometimes they are anyways
Seriously? If you do some research you will find that the above posters are correct in saying that an aluminum chassis is not meant to be bedded.
That does not mean there is nothing to gain from bedding a chassis. Depending on the design of the chassis (v-block, roller, cylindrical, etc) and your specific action, you may still be able to gain accuracy and/or more consistent POI when removing and reinstalling your barreled action into the chassis (this is more valuable to someone who swaps barreled actions around, or with a switch barrel setup).
Do a few searches and you will find many instances of reputable smiths saying that if they were trying to build the most accurate and repeatable gun possible, they would bed/skim-bed the chassis. There is even a very popular post on here somewhere from Tom Manners himself stating that the design of the mini-chassis is intended to remove the necessity of bedding, but if he were to build a gun for the utmost consistent accuracy, he would bed the chassis or just forego the chassis for a traditional pillar-bedded stock.
EDIT: Let me put it this way. Your action is a fixed, rigid piece of metal. The chassis is a fixed, rigid piece of metal. They are manufactured separately, and there is no possible way that they can ever be machined to be a perfect fit together. Even with the tightest tolerances in the world, there would still be rare occurrences where the fitment between the two may be "lacking". A proper bedding job perfectly marries the two fixed, rigid pieces of metal together.
How much this really affects accuracy can only be judged on a case by case basis, but if you are looking to build the most accurate and consistent rifle possible - most people would opt for a bedding job.
That does not mean there is nothing to gain from bedding a chassis. Depending on the design of the chassis (v-block, roller, cylindrical, etc) and your specific action, you may still be able to gain accuracy and/or more consistent POI when removing and reinstalling your barreled action into the chassis (this is more valuable to someone who swaps barreled actions around, or with a switch barrel setup).
Do a few searches and you will find many instances of reputable smiths saying that if they were trying to build the most accurate and repeatable gun possible, they would bed/skim-bed the chassis. There is even a very popular post on here somewhere from Tom Manners himself stating that the design of the mini-chassis is intended to remove the necessity of bedding, but if he were to build a gun for the utmost consistent accuracy, he would bed the chassis or just forego the chassis for a traditional pillar-bedded stock.
EDIT: Let me put it this way. Your action is a fixed, rigid piece of metal. The chassis is a fixed, rigid piece of metal. They are manufactured separately, and there is no possible way that they can ever be machined to be a perfect fit together. Even with the tightest tolerances in the world, there would still be rare occurrences where the fitment between the two may be "lacking". A proper bedding job perfectly marries the two fixed, rigid pieces of metal together.
How much this really affects accuracy can only be judged on a case by case basis, but if you are looking to build the most accurate and consistent rifle possible - most people would opt for a bedding job.
Only reason I'd go with a mini chassis is to avoid bedding. If I wanted to limit the stock to that one action and was set on that method I wouldnt go the chassis route. Bedding gives you the best accuracy. That's forsure. With chassis I dont see it making a huge difference. It would be more for peace of mind knowing there is less possibility of tolerance stacking because now it's a custom fit to your action.
I would agree with that for sure.
My precision rifle is in a Manners T4A with mini-chassis, and I originally went with the mini-chassis for the modularity aspect, but i very quickly realized I just wanted it bedded, so I sent it off for a skim. In hindsight, I would have been better off not getting the mini-chassis and just having a quality pillar-bedding done. My next stock will certainly be traditional pillar bedding. Some of the bedding jobs that these top 'smiths put out are just a work of art.
so did bedding make it more accurate? or just give you the warm fuzzies?
I can neither confirm nor deny this.
The truth is that I ordered all the components for my build and put it together myself. The ejection port on the Manners stock did not line up nicely with the ejection port of the TL3 (even tho I specified the TL3 inlet) and the barrel channel was not even close to even on both sides of the barrel with the action installed. At that point I just got in contact with Greg Young at SPR, cause the barrel he chambered for me looked phenomenal, and just sent him the rifle to have him fix the ejection port and even out the barrel channel.
So in the end it all turned out nicely and up to my standards, but if you go in the TL3 thread and look at the pictures, you will see many more Manners stocks with the ejection port not even close to matching the receiver's. I'm not sure if their inletting program is wrong, or if it just doesn't account for this.
So since I ended up having to send the barreled action and stock to a smith anyways - I decided to have Greg just skim bed the chassis while he had it. If I had known this, I would not have gotten the mini-chassis and just had it pillar bedded from the start. It would have saved me a little money, and the end result would have been a little prettier because skim bedding a chassis does not come out as pretty as a pillar-bed job.
All water under the bridge now, but lesson learned.
Been there done that. My Manners with mini chassis shot ok, but not great. I ran through every other variable before deciding to skim bed.
After skim bedding it tightened up the way I wanted it to.
I think this is a case to case basis though. If I bought another mini chassis right now I would NOT just immediately bed it. I would shoot it and see what happened.
It may shoot perfect with no bedding, but in my particular case bedding it was worth it.
After skim bedding it tightened up the way I wanted it to.
I think this is a case to case basis though. If I bought another mini chassis right now I would NOT just immediately bed it. I would shoot it and see what happened.
It may shoot perfect with no bedding, but in my particular case bedding it was worth it.
Not all actions are perfectly straight and ride in a chassis correctly. Those actions need bedded.
It’s simple, stop guessing and check it for stress with a dial indicator and check your contact with prussian blue. Seriously talking 15 minutes of work to do both.
Dudes dropping some knowledge wats a dial indicator and how do you use it? Is there a YouTube video?
Get your stock held rigid or better yet mount it on the rifle itself and when you tighten or loosen the action screws you’ll be able to see if the barrel is moving or not. A proper stress free bedding job will hold the action evenly without imparting any stress and this movement of the action/barrel.
Yes, exactly what spife7980 said and pictured. But to get a little more specific you want the muzzle elevated as he pictured, but not pointing straight up as that can give you a false lift. Rather have the rifle pointed kinda like your shooting up a very steep hill but not straight up, somewhere around 1-2 o’clock as opposed to high noon. When tightening and loosening the action screws any more than 0.002” - 0.003” of movement is where I absolutely bed an action, ideally it will be 0.000” **YOU ALTERNATELY TIGHTEN AND LOOSEN THE SCREWS, SO ONE IS ALWAYS TIGHT**
This is Prussian Blue:
apply a light coat (Very light coat) to the underside of the action and back of the recoil lug then carefully install the action in the chassis torquing the screws and then remove the barreled action (be sure to lower it straight into the chassis and lift it straight out). The ink will show you the contact points, look for any inconsistencies or gaps. Most chassis will have a long thin line along each side of the action and then some sort of pad at the tang (that is where you get the most variation).
This is an excellent way of evaluating your action to chassis fit.
This is Prussian Blue:
apply a light coat (Very light coat) to the underside of the action and back of the recoil lug then carefully install the action in the chassis torquing the screws and then remove the barreled action (be sure to lower it straight into the chassis and lift it straight out). The ink will show you the contact points, look for any inconsistencies or gaps. Most chassis will have a long thin line along each side of the action and then some sort of pad at the tang (that is where you get the most variation).
This is an excellent way of evaluating your action to chassis fit.
On the bad ones I had, you didn't even need a nail indicator, you could tighten the from screw and see the rear tang start to lift off the chassis as the front screw started to get tight.
Yeah, honestly after you have done several you can feel it with your index finger lightly resting on the end of the forearm barrel channel and the bottom of the barrel junction. It is pretty obvious.
"Not bedding a chassis"
Not exactly gents...
Years ago when the AICS thing came about there was a large number of people who saw real gains by bedding the tang portion of the register. The reason because it was designed wrong. The early, early Manners stuff was the same way.
Later manufacturers became aware that the tang portion of a Remington style action required a different approach if the bedding thing was to be avoided. Its why you now see little pins on Cadex stuff, and little bosses of aluminum around the rear tang screw on the Manners. Not sure what AI is doing these days as I don't see them nearly as often and I don't pay attention much to the other chassis stuff. They all kinda look the same after a while.
Bottom line, here is how you know for sure:
Install barreled action. Leave the front screw out of the action. Tighten the rear screw only. If the thing starts to levitate the front end of the gun skyward, you have a problem to solve.
How I've gone about fixing this a bit of a departure from slathering the ass of the inlet with Marine-Tex or Devcon. Bedding a chassis is lame in my opinion. Instead, I've installed a machined pillar in the back end. Basically poke the hole out to accept a 1/2-28 tap. I turn n thread a slug of brass and thread it into the hole with some really snorty locktite. Then I drill through the center of it so that the guard screw will go back in. I have a carbide tool in my inventory I ground to the radius of a 1.350" dia action (.675"R) I start chewing at the brass with this until the receiver is both tangent to the "V" on the chassis and the brass pillar.
Permanent fix, no bedding to flake off, no unsightly crap to have to look at. Fixed once and life goes on.
Not exactly gents...
Years ago when the AICS thing came about there was a large number of people who saw real gains by bedding the tang portion of the register. The reason because it was designed wrong. The early, early Manners stuff was the same way.
Later manufacturers became aware that the tang portion of a Remington style action required a different approach if the bedding thing was to be avoided. Its why you now see little pins on Cadex stuff, and little bosses of aluminum around the rear tang screw on the Manners. Not sure what AI is doing these days as I don't see them nearly as often and I don't pay attention much to the other chassis stuff. They all kinda look the same after a while.
Bottom line, here is how you know for sure:
Install barreled action. Leave the front screw out of the action. Tighten the rear screw only. If the thing starts to levitate the front end of the gun skyward, you have a problem to solve.
How I've gone about fixing this a bit of a departure from slathering the ass of the inlet with Marine-Tex or Devcon. Bedding a chassis is lame in my opinion. Instead, I've installed a machined pillar in the back end. Basically poke the hole out to accept a 1/2-28 tap. I turn n thread a slug of brass and thread it into the hole with some really snorty locktite. Then I drill through the center of it so that the guard screw will go back in. I have a carbide tool in my inventory I ground to the radius of a 1.350" dia action (.675"R) I start chewing at the brass with this until the receiver is both tangent to the "V" on the chassis and the brass pillar.
Permanent fix, no bedding to flake off, no unsightly crap to have to look at. Fixed once and life goes on.
Agreed , my current build will be shot a while in a MDT ACC , I will take it back out of action and see if it's rubbing at crucial areas, full accuracy testing ,etc. Then if all is well no bedding of
recoil lug,rear tang etc.
If you’re planning on keeping the rifle in the same chassis, might as well bed it. Unless someone can show how bedding would ever have a negative impact. It’s either no change or change for the better. It’s cheap, and you just dropped a ton of cash on the rifle. Might as well get everything you can.
As far as the need part. I used to look at two things. The rear screw trick above for visual confirmation, and then a slight torture test.
My bonded AI can take all the licks you want to give it and not lose zero. So with regular actions in chassis I will check zero and then start smacking the shit out of it with a dead blow hammer. Do this with an optic that has proven itself on my AI.
If the zero shifts, it gets bedded.
Thats what I used to do. Now I just bed them. Cause who cares, it’s cheap.
As far as the need part. I used to look at two things. The rear screw trick above for visual confirmation, and then a slight torture test.
My bonded AI can take all the licks you want to give it and not lose zero. So with regular actions in chassis I will check zero and then start smacking the shit out of it with a dead blow hammer. Do this with an optic that has proven itself on my AI.
If the zero shifts, it gets bedded.
Thats what I used to do. Now I just bed them. Cause who cares, it’s cheap.
It's what i love about the KRG Bravo and Whiskey - 3, hook up all the accessories you want, drop the action in it and off to the range you go. Np waiting and no messing around with modeling clay, release agent, tape, and MarineTex required.
Only if there were something wrong to begin with and then it should be more of a manufacturer's warranty issue than a gunsmith affair.
You're new, but gap, sac, and several other top Smith's will bed a chassis.
Gen 2 mini chassis and krg backbones are fine as is. Gen1 manners mini chassis, aics, and certain mdt chassis are helped. The problem with v blocks is sometimes the V runs out of contact with tang in front of rear action screw. When that rear screw is torqued to anything over 15"/lbs, it starts bending action and adding stress. You torque an action in an aics or manners gen1, both screws to 45"/lbs or greater. When you loosen front screw the barrel will raise up .5-.75" in barrel channel from the rear screw acting like a fulcrum. Will this destroy accuracy, maybe and maybe not. I'll bet if you need to remove barreled action from stock for maintenance, that it wont be zeroed when put back. When I bed manners gen1 or aics chassis, I just bed rear tang area as that's all that's needed.
That's sounds like a design flaw. I've only had krg and cadex chassis. And you're right I am knew. You've probably been shooting since I was in diapers. But that sounds like the rear action scew and rear tang needs some more attention in the r n d department.
no.
we're taking 20 different action designs and 20 different chassis designs
they dont all work together. same thing with triggers/sears/hangers/cock on close etc etc
the ones put together by a smith cause they'll bed if necessary
what may work for me doesnt for you. that's tolerances
Doesn’t matter. Lots of chassis/actions need some aftermarket work. Such as trigger hangers and the like.
Buy what action and chassis is comfortable for you and go from there. If it performs as you like, go with it. If not, bed it.
This is the same logic as “my chrono says my speed is 2950, so I shouldn’t have to tweak it in my calculator to work.”
World ain’t perfect. Make it work.
This is a non issue that doesn’t need this much attention. Bed the chassis if it’s needed or you want to. Don’t if it doesn’t or you don’t want to.
“Should” has nothing to do with it.
Actually the mini chassis works pretty well with a lot of actions with no work. I have 6 Manners stocks with mini chassis systems and have moved around barreled actions in most. A few Rem 700s, Vudoo .22, and a Surgeon. All I did is torque to Manners spec and they all shot great.
I like the mini chassis system a lot. I know some like to bed the lug area as they do in a lot of chassis systems but I don't worry about it. Never saw a need.
I’m getting around 1/4 moa with a barricade mini chassis with out trying real hard. Get close to 1/2 moa in a few h and a precision stocks with the aluminum bedding blocks, but the are a little picky about action bolt torque.
Shoots noticeably better than my trued 700 that is bedded in a manners with a bartlin barrel. Shooting hand loads.
I have a t4a with mini chassis. With the accuracy my gun shows I have never seen the need to bed.
I helped a buddy put together a prc with a nucleus action and proof barrel in a gen 2 mini chassis. He is getting around 3/8 moa with factory eldx ammo. Neither one of these guns ever saw a gun smith. Both prefit barrels. The big horn is a shouldered prefit (no barrel nut).
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