Hello, I'm new to this site and was wondering if someone could help point me in the right direction about manufacturing my own gun parts and what laws I will have to comply with? I've been a machinist for 20+ years and want to make some of my own parts, not for resale though, just for myself. Thanks for any help
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Gunsmithing Manufacture of rifle and components?
- Thread starter dk05r1
- Start date
Re: Manufacture of rifle and components?
You can make anything you want for yourself...except for full auto stuff...without a Federal permit. If you sell it you have to really get serious about permits, insurance...those kind of things. Read that ATF stuff thoroughly.
You can make anything you want for yourself...except for full auto stuff...without a Federal permit. If you sell it you have to really get serious about permits, insurance...those kind of things. Read that ATF stuff thoroughly.
Re: Manufacture of rifle and components?
Well, that and you can't go under a certain barrel length, and you can't go over a certain bore size, and you can't use explosive projectiles, and, and, and....
But yea, you can make *SOME* stuff for yourself.
Well, that and you can't go under a certain barrel length, and you can't go over a certain bore size, and you can't use explosive projectiles, and, and, and....
But yea, you can make *SOME* stuff for yourself.
Re: Manufacture of rifle and components?
I have an 07FFL (manufacturer's license) and I've built receivers/guns from scratch for myself. (before getting the license)
Essentially (nutshell) it goes like this. Build your gun and go use it. As mentioned, obvious stuff like bazookas and full auto machine guns will only get you into hot water with Uncle Sugar.
The rules to really pay attention to regarding home built firearms:
No more than 3 per year (last I checked)
You may NEVER sell it, transfer it, will it, or pass it on to a family member. (no exceptions) It essentially goes in your casket with you.
You do need to serialize it and record that number in a log somewhere. If it (rifle) were ever lost/stolen/used to commit a crime you are expected to provide LE with the information for the purpose of their investigation.
You may not build one for another person. HOWEVER you are in compliance if the two, three, four of your build it together. The part to pay attention to is TOGETHER. They have to participate in the manufacturing process in a meaningful and significant way.
By and large it is a simple process as there's no red tape, registration, NICS, or anything involved. Your left to your own good judgment and character.
Good luck with your build. My first was an Anschutz 64 clone built from a piece of 93 Ford Explorer sway bar (good steel btw)
Chad
I have an 07FFL (manufacturer's license) and I've built receivers/guns from scratch for myself. (before getting the license)
Essentially (nutshell) it goes like this. Build your gun and go use it. As mentioned, obvious stuff like bazookas and full auto machine guns will only get you into hot water with Uncle Sugar.
The rules to really pay attention to regarding home built firearms:
No more than 3 per year (last I checked)
You may NEVER sell it, transfer it, will it, or pass it on to a family member. (no exceptions) It essentially goes in your casket with you.
You do need to serialize it and record that number in a log somewhere. If it (rifle) were ever lost/stolen/used to commit a crime you are expected to provide LE with the information for the purpose of their investigation.
You may not build one for another person. HOWEVER you are in compliance if the two, three, four of your build it together. The part to pay attention to is TOGETHER. They have to participate in the manufacturing process in a meaningful and significant way.
By and large it is a simple process as there's no red tape, registration, NICS, or anything involved. Your left to your own good judgment and character.
Good luck with your build. My first was an Anschutz 64 clone built from a piece of 93 Ford Explorer sway bar (good steel btw)
Chad
Re: Manufacture of rifle and components?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: C. Dixon</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have an 07FFL (manufacturer's license) and I've built receivers/guns from scratch for myself. (before getting the license)
Essentially (nutshell) it goes like this. Build your gun and go use it. As mentioned, obvious stuff like bazookas and full auto machine guns will only get you into hot water with Uncle Sugar.
The rules to really pay attention to regarding home built firearms:
No more than 3 per year (last I checked)
You may NEVER sell it, transfer it, will it, or pass it on to a family member. (no exceptions) It essentially goes in your casket with you.
You do need to serialize it and record that number in a log somewhere. If it (rifle) were ever lost/stolen/used to commit a crime you are expected to provide LE with the information for the purpose of their investigation.
You may not build one for another person. HOWEVER you are in compliance if the two, three, four of your build it together. The part to pay attention to is TOGETHER. They have to participate in the manufacturing process in a meaningful and significant way.
By and large it is a simple process as there's no red tape, registration, NICS, or anything involved. Your left to your own good judgment and character.
Good luck with your build. My first was an Anschutz 64 clone built from a piece of 93 Ford Explorer sway bar (good steel btw)
Chad </div></div>
This is about 95% correct. You CAN sell it eventually. That Annie clone you built could be sold, it must be serialized and you need to go through a standard FFL transfer usually. It must be cataloged as a home built gun, the DOM on it must be clearly recorded and what you need to demonstrate is that you built it, shot it, enjoyed it, or whatever, you're selling it because you don't use it anymore or it's going to waste. Basically, you're tired of it.
If you start making a couple a year and selling them all you're gonna get hosed, but if you made one in 2001 and sold it today nobody would hassle you. It's clear you had it in your posession for a while and just got tired of it.
Also, anything/everything that my dad has built for himself can legally become my posession, including the Form 1's (those are a special case, but it can be done) when he passes away.
Long story short: Build what you want, hand it down to your kids, enjoy it, and welcome aboard.
If in doubt, call the ATF and ask them, say "here's what I'd like to do, is that legal? I don't want to get in trouble, I just have an idea to improve ___________ and think it would be a neat project"
Make your request in writing, their decision will be in writing. If it's anything regarding a Form 1, 2, 3 (NFA type items) then ALWAYS get it in writing. That's your get out of jail free card.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: C. Dixon</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have an 07FFL (manufacturer's license) and I've built receivers/guns from scratch for myself. (before getting the license)
Essentially (nutshell) it goes like this. Build your gun and go use it. As mentioned, obvious stuff like bazookas and full auto machine guns will only get you into hot water with Uncle Sugar.
The rules to really pay attention to regarding home built firearms:
No more than 3 per year (last I checked)
You may NEVER sell it, transfer it, will it, or pass it on to a family member. (no exceptions) It essentially goes in your casket with you.
You do need to serialize it and record that number in a log somewhere. If it (rifle) were ever lost/stolen/used to commit a crime you are expected to provide LE with the information for the purpose of their investigation.
You may not build one for another person. HOWEVER you are in compliance if the two, three, four of your build it together. The part to pay attention to is TOGETHER. They have to participate in the manufacturing process in a meaningful and significant way.
By and large it is a simple process as there's no red tape, registration, NICS, or anything involved. Your left to your own good judgment and character.
Good luck with your build. My first was an Anschutz 64 clone built from a piece of 93 Ford Explorer sway bar (good steel btw)
Chad </div></div>
This is about 95% correct. You CAN sell it eventually. That Annie clone you built could be sold, it must be serialized and you need to go through a standard FFL transfer usually. It must be cataloged as a home built gun, the DOM on it must be clearly recorded and what you need to demonstrate is that you built it, shot it, enjoyed it, or whatever, you're selling it because you don't use it anymore or it's going to waste. Basically, you're tired of it.
If you start making a couple a year and selling them all you're gonna get hosed, but if you made one in 2001 and sold it today nobody would hassle you. It's clear you had it in your posession for a while and just got tired of it.
Also, anything/everything that my dad has built for himself can legally become my posession, including the Form 1's (those are a special case, but it can be done) when he passes away.
Long story short: Build what you want, hand it down to your kids, enjoy it, and welcome aboard.
If in doubt, call the ATF and ask them, say "here's what I'd like to do, is that legal? I don't want to get in trouble, I just have an idea to improve ___________ and think it would be a neat project"
Make your request in writing, their decision will be in writing. If it's anything regarding a Form 1, 2, 3 (NFA type items) then ALWAYS get it in writing. That's your get out of jail free card.
Re: Manufacture of rifle and components?
Not making an attempt to get in a confrontation with you but your statement is exactly counter to what I was briefed on by the BATF agent that conducted my interview during my FFL application process. I covered these concerns with him in depth because I have a half dozen or so actions/guns at home that are all built on scratch made receivers.
I just know what I was told by the agent that sat across from me.
Now, that being said there are a great many variations/opinions on how business gets done within this agency. Case in point an agent from the St Paul office told me I was committing a felony for buying ammunition components and making my own ammunition without an ammunition manufacturer's license. My reply to her was that Cabellas must be the biggest law breaker in the land then for selling me the stuff. The conversation quickly dissolved after that.
My point is we have a discrepancy before us on how things get done. Whether I or Bohem is right/wrong isn't my interest. As he stated, do everything in writing prior if you ever intend to sell, will, give away your action.
Good luck on your project.
Not making an attempt to get in a confrontation with you but your statement is exactly counter to what I was briefed on by the BATF agent that conducted my interview during my FFL application process. I covered these concerns with him in depth because I have a half dozen or so actions/guns at home that are all built on scratch made receivers.
I just know what I was told by the agent that sat across from me.
Now, that being said there are a great many variations/opinions on how business gets done within this agency. Case in point an agent from the St Paul office told me I was committing a felony for buying ammunition components and making my own ammunition without an ammunition manufacturer's license. My reply to her was that Cabellas must be the biggest law breaker in the land then for selling me the stuff. The conversation quickly dissolved after that.
My point is we have a discrepancy before us on how things get done. Whether I or Bohem is right/wrong isn't my interest. As he stated, do everything in writing prior if you ever intend to sell, will, give away your action.
Good luck on your project.
Re: Manufacture of rifle and components?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: C. Dixon</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
You do need to serialize it and record that number in a log somewhere. If it (rifle) were ever lost/stolen/used to commit a crime you are expected to provide LE with the information for the purpose of their investigation.</div></div>
i am definatly not 100% positive but i was under the impression that you are not required to serialize a firearm built for personal use.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: C. Dixon</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
You do need to serialize it and record that number in a log somewhere. If it (rifle) were ever lost/stolen/used to commit a crime you are expected to provide LE with the information for the purpose of their investigation.</div></div>
i am definatly not 100% positive but i was under the impression that you are not required to serialize a firearm built for personal use.
Re: Manufacture of rifle and components?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 300sniper</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: C. Dixon</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
You do need to serialize it and record that number in a log somewhere. If it (rifle) were ever lost/stolen/used to commit a crime you are expected to provide LE with the information for the purpose of their investigation.</div></div>
i am definatly not 100% positive but i was under the impression that you are not required to serialize a firearm built for personal use. </div></div>
Again, I'd be dishonest stating that I've researched the exact wording/guidance. All of this information comes my interview conducted about 5 months ago. I know what I was told by the agent assigned to the St Paul Industry Operations Center.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 300sniper</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: C. Dixon</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
You do need to serialize it and record that number in a log somewhere. If it (rifle) were ever lost/stolen/used to commit a crime you are expected to provide LE with the information for the purpose of their investigation.</div></div>
i am definatly not 100% positive but i was under the impression that you are not required to serialize a firearm built for personal use. </div></div>
Again, I'd be dishonest stating that I've researched the exact wording/guidance. All of this information comes my interview conducted about 5 months ago. I know what I was told by the agent assigned to the St Paul Industry Operations Center.
Re: Manufacture of rifle and components?
Personal items, and this I'm 100% on (unless the law has changed since 2009) is that you don't need a SN on them.
Everything that I make personally gets a combination of my Birthday, SSN, and a -xxxxxx on it so that I know what it is and when it was made in case anyone ever breaks in and I can give the information to the cops. I also photograph it and keep a record of it for CYA purposes in case of a home/shop invasion at any point.
When they're sold, they need to be serialized per GCA '68 regulations, so before you sell anything you built you need to stamp SOMETHING into it.
You don't technically HAVE to go through a dealer to sell a homemade item, in PA we can transfer a long gun to another PA resident without a 4473 form as a non-dealer, but you're asking for a colonoscopy by the ATF if you ever get your ass in a crack for something. Again, it's a "can be done, but you're foolish for doing it" type of situation.
I've never seen a reason to sell anything that I've every built, but I did look into what the legalities of it were.
Personal items, and this I'm 100% on (unless the law has changed since 2009) is that you don't need a SN on them.
Everything that I make personally gets a combination of my Birthday, SSN, and a -xxxxxx on it so that I know what it is and when it was made in case anyone ever breaks in and I can give the information to the cops. I also photograph it and keep a record of it for CYA purposes in case of a home/shop invasion at any point.
When they're sold, they need to be serialized per GCA '68 regulations, so before you sell anything you built you need to stamp SOMETHING into it.
You don't technically HAVE to go through a dealer to sell a homemade item, in PA we can transfer a long gun to another PA resident without a 4473 form as a non-dealer, but you're asking for a colonoscopy by the ATF if you ever get your ass in a crack for something. Again, it's a "can be done, but you're foolish for doing it" type of situation.
I've never seen a reason to sell anything that I've every built, but I did look into what the legalities of it were.
Re: Manufacture of rifle and components?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: C. Dixon</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Not making an attempt to get in a confrontation with you but your statement is exactly counter to what I was briefed on by the BATF agent that conducted my interview during my FFL application process. I covered these concerns with him in depth because I have a half dozen or so actions/guns at home that are all built on scratch made receivers.
I just know what I was told by the agent that sat across from me.
Now, that being said there are a great many variations/opinions on how business gets done within this agency. Case in point an agent from the St Paul office told me I was committing a felony for buying ammunition components and making my own ammunition without an ammunition manufacturer's license. My reply to her was that Cabellas must be the biggest law breaker in the land then for selling me the stuff. The conversation quickly dissolved after that.
My point is we have a discrepancy before us on how things get done. Whether I or Bohem is right/wrong isn't my interest. As he stated, do everything in writing prior if you ever intend to sell, will, give away your action.
Good luck on your project. </div></div>
I don't doubt what they told you, you should have a big yellow book that came with your FFL, my CR license includes a yellow book and a CD each year. The book/CD will cover that, I'm at work and don't have it handy or I'd look it up to show you where to check.
I've heard many discrepancies amongst agents, the laws are long and convuluted and many of them don't actually know the laws in detail themselves. This has put more than 1 person behind bars before and I'd hate to hear about it happening to someone on this forum when they're just following the answers they were given.
This is why any time that I'm doing something or have a question I call first, then write a letter and request a written letter in response. That written letter is golden, it will come on ATF letterhead and be signed by someone with real authority inside the agency.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: C. Dixon</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Not making an attempt to get in a confrontation with you but your statement is exactly counter to what I was briefed on by the BATF agent that conducted my interview during my FFL application process. I covered these concerns with him in depth because I have a half dozen or so actions/guns at home that are all built on scratch made receivers.
I just know what I was told by the agent that sat across from me.
Now, that being said there are a great many variations/opinions on how business gets done within this agency. Case in point an agent from the St Paul office told me I was committing a felony for buying ammunition components and making my own ammunition without an ammunition manufacturer's license. My reply to her was that Cabellas must be the biggest law breaker in the land then for selling me the stuff. The conversation quickly dissolved after that.
My point is we have a discrepancy before us on how things get done. Whether I or Bohem is right/wrong isn't my interest. As he stated, do everything in writing prior if you ever intend to sell, will, give away your action.
Good luck on your project. </div></div>
I don't doubt what they told you, you should have a big yellow book that came with your FFL, my CR license includes a yellow book and a CD each year. The book/CD will cover that, I'm at work and don't have it handy or I'd look it up to show you where to check.
I've heard many discrepancies amongst agents, the laws are long and convuluted and many of them don't actually know the laws in detail themselves. This has put more than 1 person behind bars before and I'd hate to hear about it happening to someone on this forum when they're just following the answers they were given.
This is why any time that I'm doing something or have a question I call first, then write a letter and request a written letter in response. That written letter is golden, it will come on ATF letterhead and be signed by someone with real authority inside the agency.
Re: Manufacture of rifle and components?
Ask any Law Officer if it's legal to build a firearm and roughly 90% will say it's illegal. Ask three BAFTE agents and you'll get three different answers in writing. My point is just because they are in law enforcement means they know every letter of the law.. LOL.. That being said personal selling of a homebuilt firearm is a huge GRAY AREA. The actual wording says something like not building with the "intent" to sell. When I built my first firearm 20+ years ago the ATF agent told me to treat it as a "marriage" and build it with the intent of keeping it forever. Although many poeple sell homebuilds and do so within the parameters of the law, I personally would never do such. There are many forums on the net about homebuilding... Weaponeer, etc.. that go into depth of what is legal and what steps to persue when building a "Legal to Own" non NFA weapon. There is indeed a great deal of misinformation out there. As far a a letter from the ATF, they have been known to change the rules after the fact. I am NOT a legal expert or do claim such. If in doubt don't do it.
Ask any Law Officer if it's legal to build a firearm and roughly 90% will say it's illegal. Ask three BAFTE agents and you'll get three different answers in writing. My point is just because they are in law enforcement means they know every letter of the law.. LOL.. That being said personal selling of a homebuilt firearm is a huge GRAY AREA. The actual wording says something like not building with the "intent" to sell. When I built my first firearm 20+ years ago the ATF agent told me to treat it as a "marriage" and build it with the intent of keeping it forever. Although many poeple sell homebuilds and do so within the parameters of the law, I personally would never do such. There are many forums on the net about homebuilding... Weaponeer, etc.. that go into depth of what is legal and what steps to persue when building a "Legal to Own" non NFA weapon. There is indeed a great deal of misinformation out there. As far a a letter from the ATF, they have been known to change the rules after the fact. I am NOT a legal expert or do claim such. If in doubt don't do it.
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