Sidearms & Scatterguns Marines to field Colt .45 1911

[captnmo]

I think this is a great move by the USMC. I hope the Army is paying attention.'

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/07/28/mar...aliber-pistols/

 

[DJ 480]

Re: Marines to field Colt .45 1911

That would be nice I hope we follow suit too..

 

[Mordamer]

Re: Marines to field Colt .45 1911

This is awesome. I wonder how many guns they got for 22.5 million?

 

[DJ 480]

Re: Marines to field Colt .45 1911

10 prob lol

 

[former naval person]

Re: Marines to field Colt .45 1911

The article said as many as 12000, which would be $1875.00 each. WWII Colts were $65.00 each. Allowing for inflation, and looking at the finish and sights and all that stuff...my dad was a mechanical arts teacher at the start of WWII and made $3000 a year. The most he'd ever made. The same position today would command about $50,000. Do the percentages and it works out to @2% of his 1940 wage and the new pistol about 3 1/2 % of todays salary. Pretty much in line considering the better material, etc. JMHO

 

[Downzero]

Re: Marines to field Colt .45 1911

I bet they'll be just as sloppy as the crap that Colt supplies to the public.

 

[Bullitz]

Re: Marines to field Colt .45 1911

finally...god damn

 

[Miles2go]

Re: Marines to field Colt .45 1911

Happy days are here again. Anyone hear what ammo? Anyone think the hardball can be improved upon?

 

[bassani]

Re: Marines to field Colt .45 1911

nice

 

[NGCSUGrad09]

Re: Marines to field Colt .45 1911

Just so everyone knows, these are for MARSOC (the Marine Corps element of USSOCCOM) and not everyday Marines. The M9 is not going away, but this is for the special guys.

I'll be curious to see if Colt releases a civilian version of the gun.

 

[grunt0311]

Re: Marines to field Colt .45 1911

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: NGCSUGrad09</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> The M9 is not going away, but this is for the special guys.

</div></div>

Thats unfortant because the M9 really needs to go away and we need a REAL gun.

 

[captnmo]

Re: Marines to field Colt .45 1911

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: NGCSUGrad09</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Just so everyone knows, these are for MARSOC (the Marine Corps element of USSOCCOM) and not everyday Marines. The M9 is not going away, but this is for the special guys.

I'll be curious to see if Colt releases a civilian version of the gun. </div></div>

Yeah but it's a step in the right direction. MARSOC and all the other special ops guys had to get what they need on their own. At least it's being fielded by big USMC. I could be wrong but 12,000 seems like quite a lot for just the special ops. Maybe going to select front line conventional forces as well.

 

[Downzero]

Re: Marines to field Colt .45 1911

I don't know why anyone really thinks that a pistol is going to make the difference either way. It isn't.

 

[dynamic research]

Re: Marines to field Colt .45 1911

I am glad to see that someone is listining to the troops. When we changed from the .45 to the 9mm in 86, it was one of the worst decisions made for close combat. The 45 is as simple as it gets, with great accuracy and knock down power.
Downzero, That change will make a huge difference in the areas that we are now in. During my tour in Iraq, the BC and BSM both carried sig P220's. The M9, 9mm just dosent have the punch for the vehicles and barriers that are needed. It also takes more rounds to knock down a haji. They need to go down on the first, or at least the second shot. I hope this goes service wide.

 

[Downzero]

Re: Marines to field Colt .45 1911

That may be the case, but pistols are not what our soliders are killing the enemy with. The BC and BSM's pistols probably never left their holsters at all.

 

[longguntoter]

Re: Marines to field Colt .45 1911

I figured it would happen eventually. When I was in we were still using the 1911, but they were getting ready to transfer over to the 9mm. The USMC is probably getting tired of trying to take out the enemy with a 124 grain ball round, so lets just go back to the older pistol and hit them with a 230 grain ball round. Makes sense to me.

 

[Bullitz]

Re: Marines to field Colt .45 1911

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Downzero</div><div class="ubbcode-body">That may be the case, but pistols are not what our soliders are killing the enemy with. The BC and BSM's pistols probably never left their holsters at all. </div></div>

ide feel better having a .45 on my side than a 9 anyways, if your gun jams or you dont have time to reload when youre in the middle of some heavy shit ide rather be throwin a brick at someone than a BB

 

[CE1371]

Re: Marines to field Colt .45 1911

This is being purchased by MARSOC which is more a subsidiary of SOCOM than it is of the Marine Corps. Only MARSOC will be fielding these, not our average Marine infantry.

 

[ShortRangeSniper]

Re: Marines to field Colt .45 1911

I'll be the minority here then, I think it is a dumb decision. Great nostalgic piece, awesome classic, but its time is past and it is not the right choice.

 

[MontanaMarine]

Re: Marines to field Colt .45 1911

This smacks of chronyism and politics.

There are better 45s.

 

[MontanaMarine]

Re: Marines to field Colt .45 1911

Four of five test-fired pistols deadlined after 12K rounds. Cracked slides....


Details, pics:

http://soldiersystems.net/2012/07/20/marsoc-winning-colt-guns/

 

[Onemoretime]

Re: Marines to field Colt .45 1911

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MontanaMarine</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Four of five test-fired pistols deadlined after 12K rounds. Cracked slides....


Details, pics:

http://soldiersystems.net/2012/07/20/marsoc-winning-colt-guns/ </div></div>

This was during the test?? If so, how'd they get picked?

 

[pdogsbeware]

Re: Marines to field Colt .45 1911


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: USMC Grunt</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Thats unfortant because the M9 really needs to go away and we need a REAL gun.
</div></div> Like, I dunno, your primary M4 with 30 rounds of ammunition with 3 times the energy of your "real gun"...?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Downzero</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I don't know why anyone really thinks that a pistol is going to make the difference either way. It isn't.</div></div> Smart man! No that's not sarcasm, I mean it.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Stephen Damron</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> The M9, 9mm just dosent have the punch for the vehicles and barriers that are needed.
</div></div> Again, it'd be kinda nice to have the "punch" and "knock down power" for barriers and vehicles of, oh I dunno, an M4...?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Downzero</div><div class="ubbcode-body">That may be the case, but pistols are not what our soliders are killing the enemy with. The BC and BSM's pistols probably never left their holsters at all.</div></div>
Again, you on top of things!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bullitz</div><div class="ubbcode-body">ide feel better having a .45 on my side than a 9 anyways, if your gun jams or you dont have time to reload when youre in the middle of some heavy shit ide rather be throwin a brick at someone than a BB</div></div> 1. Clean you rifle. 2. Practice your reload. 3. There is a 12% difference in energy between the 9mm and the .45ACP...hardly a "brick vs. bb".

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ShortRangeSniper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'll be the minority here then, I think it is a dumb decision. Great nostalgic piece, awesome classic, but its time is past and it is not the right choice.</div></div>
Minorities unite!

There was precisely ONE thing I would use a handgun for...the walk to the chow hall

 

[arborpro]

Re: Marines to field Colt .45 1911

I think every one should have at least one 1911 and a m1 garand. with that said i belive there are better, cheaper, higher capacity more reliable options out there.
hell i have a 1911 and i love it. but be honest it wont run with the new plastic frame guns.

arborpro

 

[Powder_Burns]

Re: Marines to field Colt .45 1911

Psh, 1911's blow up german panzers. What the hell do they know?

 

[Downzero]

Re: Marines to field Colt .45 1911

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: arborpro</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I think every one should have at least one 1911 and a m1 garand. with that said i belive there are better, cheaper, higher capacity more reliable options out there.
hell i have a 1911 and i love it. but be honest it wont run with the new plastic frame guns.

arborpro </div></div>

I don't want a higher capacity gun; I want one that fits my hand, and ANY hand!

Ergonomics is what puts rounds on target. The 1911 has it. The others don't.

That said, handguns are nearly completely irrelevant to the outcome of wars. We shouldn't be spending any additional money on them. We should be investing in ammo and training, and new magazines, not a fancy gun.

 

[grunt0311]

Re: Marines to field Colt .45 1911

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: pdogsbeware</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: USMC Grunt</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Thats unfortant because the M9 really needs to go away and we need a REAL gun.
</div></div> Like, I dunno, your primary M4 with 30 rounds of ammunition with 3 times the energy of your "real gun"...?

</div></div>

Yes I do have a real gun. Its an M4 that I carried 210 rounds. But you know, or maybe you dont, that shit happens in combat. You could run out of ammo or have a malfunction when the enemy shows up at close range. Then what are you going to do? I would like a 1911 for that reason so I can shoot him and be done with it, not empty a whole mag from the M9 and still wonder if hes still alive.

 

[Turk]

Re: Marines to field Colt .45 1911

Kinda makes you wonder about Colt's relationship w/ the military!

 

[ShortRangeSniper]

Re: Marines to field Colt .45 1911

Sorry, rather have an M9 than a 1911. 1911s are very fickle, have to be carried with the action open, and only carry 7 rounds. There is a reason why the high-speed guys that carried 1911s in 2001 all carry Glocks and Sigs now.

 

[Bruiser_Joe]

Re: Marines to field Colt .45 1911

U have no idea what your talking about

 

[Boomholzer]

Re: Marines to field Colt .45 1911

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MontanaMarine</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Four of five test-fired pistols deadlined after 12K rounds. Cracked slides....


Details, pics:

http://soldiersystems.net/2012/07/20/marsoc-winning-colt-guns/ </div></div>

The issues appear to be on violent slide stop, perhaps with a flat spring. I'm not a diehard 1911 guy, nor do I think that it is a modern solution in a functional and practical nature for sidearm. I have been around it enough to note that repeated HP rounds do not present cracks in those locations. I would question the failure mode and implimentation in test. If it actually fed and ejected that 12k to crack that slide with a ill recoil spring, I would be more surprised. I guess to its credit.

 

[Downzero]

Re: Marines to field Colt .45 1911

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ShortRangeSniper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Sorry, rather have an M9 than a 1911. 1911s are very fickle, have to be carried with the action open, and only carry 7 rounds. There is a reason why the high-speed guys that carried 1911s in 2001 all carry Glocks and Sigs now. </div></div>

I wish there was a competition where I could show up and beat you with my 8 round masterpiece. Because I would do it.

 

[nickh46]

Re: Marines to field Colt .45 1911

Given the Marines adoption of the HK416 full auto variant as the M27 IAR, I was interested to see if they would adopt the HK45C Mk 24 as their sidearm.

But if the contract specifically called for a pistol that was compatible with existing 1911 magazines in the supply chain, then the Mk24 wouldn't even be considered in the first place.

 

[MontanaMarine]

Re: Marines to field Colt .45 1911

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Onemoretime</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MontanaMarine</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Four of five test-fired pistols deadlined after 12K rounds. Cracked slides....


Details, pics:

http://soldiersystems.net/2012/07/20/marsoc-winning-colt-guns/ </div></div>

This was during the test?? If so, how'd they get picked? </div></div>



Good question.

Like I said earlier, it smacks of politics and chronyism.

 

[500grains]

Re: Marines to field Colt .45 1911

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ShortRangeSniper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Sorry, rather have an M9 than a 1911. 1911s have to be carried with the action open, and only carry 7 rounds. </div></div>

When ignorant, it is better to not post.

 

[HathcockProtege]

Re: Marines to field Colt .45 1911

I see it as a political, nostalgic move justified by existing supply of 1911 mags, support, etc, and the somewhat improved knockdown factor of the .45. There are a dozen handguns out there that are far more reliable, higher capacity, and cost less to manufacture and just make more sense as a combat side arm, in my opinion.

Other than for shooting at the range, I've never met a 1911 for which I had any use, so I'm a little biased. That being said, I think I'd prefer it to the M9. It's at least cool looking, fun to shoot, and provides lots of horsepower per shot.

-The Kid.

 

[ShortRangeSniper]

Re: Marines to field Colt .45 1911

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BigJoe</div><div class="ubbcode-body">U have no idea what your talking about </div></div>
Please tell me what of the above is wrong.

 

[ShortRangeSniper]

Re: Marines to field Colt .45 1911

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 500grains</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ShortRangeSniper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Sorry, rather have an M9 than a 1911. 1911s have to be carried with the action open, and only carry 7 rounds. </div></div>

When ignorant, it is better to not post. </div></div>

Oh, please point out what i posted that is wrong? 1911s have to be carried cocked and locked, which is a major reason why they disappeared off the battlefield shortly after entering it in 2001. What is a great weapon in a sterile environment becomes a 7 round paperweight in dusty conditions. What do you think a 1911 looks like after climbing out of a helo in a desert HLZ?

 

[maxpower220]

Re: Marines to field Colt .45 1911

I am surprised at how many people on here comment about pistols that our troops carry. In reality, virtually all enlisted in Iraq/Afgam don't carry a sidearm, just a rifle. M9/1911, doesn't really matter if you don't even have it.
As far as killing "Hadji", I think you will be hard pressed to find anyone who has killed hadji in combat with a handgun.

Also, I really glad that no one is complaining about the amount of extra tax dollars you are spending to pay for a change. Change is slow and expensive. Moreso when you are letting an oversized govt do it.

 

[captnmo]

Re: Marines to field Colt .45 1911

I think the move AWAY from the M9 is more the good thing here, not necessarly the move TO the Colt .45 1911 specifically. If we're going to go with the .45, I'm sure very solid arguments could be made for an HK or Sig as I'm sure some guys are using them over there. Of course there are politics involved. Show me one military acquisition that didn't have that involved. As far as the cost (I know I'm going to get flamed here), it's not that much relatively. $22.5 million is maybe 3/4 one new UH-60M Blackhawk. Probably not even half an Apache. Yeah, the reality is you'd be hard pressed to find anyone that has actually killed the enemy with their sidearm, let alone post about it here on the internet. But reality is that those few who have and still are, I don't think, want to keep the M9. As the guy that carried the M9 to the chow hall and back, I never liked it simply for the ergonomics of the thing. 9mm is probably ok. I've never shot anyone with it, but I'm sure it will do the job. The gun worked fine and Barretta makes a good weapon, just not one I'd prefer if I had to use it.

 

[desertrat1979]

Re: Marines to field Colt .45 1911

As much as I like the 1911 (waaaaayyy more than an M9), as MontanaMarine said, there are better .45s out there. If the choice were between the two calibers, .45. I dont know if its that warm fuzzy feeling it gives, but I would feel just as safe with 12 or more rounds of .45 than 15 rounds of 9mm. Yes, I am aware that more bullets is better, but a hi-cap .45 with good ergonomics will give the same odds of surivability. Besides, if it comes down to your pistol being all you have left, then things probably went to shit anyway.

 

[Bruiser_Joe]

Re: Marines to field Colt .45 1911

the HK45c the navy picked up is only a 8-10 rounder anyways

what major capacity advantage do you think they would get by picking up the same as NSW?

the 1911 is a great platform and still is, the whole argument that is isn't a valid combat pistol anymore is stupid and ignorant.

 

[RETE8]

Re: Marines to field Colt .45 1911

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Downzero</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I don't know why anyone really thinks that a pistol is going to make the difference either way. It isn't. </div></div>


.....when it comes to a secondary, it's better to have one and not need it than to need it and not have one.......

 

[SaepeExertus]

Re: Marines to field Colt .45 1911

It's going to the MARSOC Bns and our Force Reconnaissance Companie's. With the amount of rounds we put through them 12000 is about on par for what we'll need to keep them running. It is def about time they replace what we have right now (literally had a slide fall off one of ours during a range the other week). I do wish though we would go the route of other SOF units and pick up Glock or Sig.

 

[taseal]

Re: Marines to field Colt .45 1911

Should have brought the mk23 back

 

[red6actual]

Re: Marines to field Colt .45 1911

Really, you would rather have a Glock?

I can agree with that as I like them, in fact Glocks are all I own now.
Had Sigs too for many years till I changed, both good pistols.

 

[taseal]

Re: Marines to field Colt .45 1911

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: red6actual</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Really, you would rather have a Glock?

I can agree with that as I like them, in fact Glocks are all I own now.
Had Sigs too for many years till I changed, both good pistols.
</div></div>


I'd be fine with a glock. no idea on their longetivity durability though. I know they are stout, but i'm not sure if they are grunt stout

 

[Bruiser_Joe]

Re: Marines to field Colt .45 1911

fuck the mk23, with the can you needed a foregrip for that bitch.

 

[turbo54]

Re: Marines to field Colt .45 1911

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: taseal</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: red6actual</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Really, you would rather have a Glock?

I can agree with that as I like them, in fact Glocks are all I own now.
Had Sigs too for many years till I changed, both good pistols.
</div></div>


I'd be fine with a glock. no idea on their longetivity durability though. I know they are stout, but i'm not sure if they are grunt stout </div></div>

Check out this Glock torture test: http://theprepared.com/content/view/90/administrator/

I have a 1911 and like it, but seriously doubt it could handle what a Glock can.

I'm not an operator, I'm just a civvi. Seems like a Glock 17 would be a better combat pistol than a 1911.... but what do I know about it? Nothing.

 

[RoosterShooter]

Re: Marines to field Colt .45 1911

They really should have thought it through before buying 12k units from Colt of all manufacturers!

They would have been better served going with Kimber or even Springfield over Colt! Colts are shit, and I'll never own another as long as I live. I won one at an NRA banquet a few years back, and sold it the next day for a Kimber with some change to boot!

My Kimber Eclipse has over 20k rounds down the pipe and she's just getting started!

The only thing I've changed on it was the recoil spring after 10k rounds.