Masterpiece Arms vs American Rifle Company

[RushT]

I suspect the answer will be close to: “Either one, both are good, pick the one you like”. But I’m checking to see if there’s an opinion on one vs the other.

I’ve been researching for a 6.5CM long range build and thought I had pretty much decided on the MPA BA Pro2. But lately I have been eyeballing the American Rifle Company offering. Does anyone have any thoughts or experience regarding the two?

• Real vs claimed accuracy
• Warranty support
• Reliability
• Physical differences; scope height, length of pull, etc
• stuff I haven’t thought of

I appreciate any input from the collective wisdom and experience of the forum. There’s lots of info on each gun separately, but not much in the way of compare/contrast.

PS, I noticed today that MPA’s description indicated that the BA Pro was built to meet the 2023 price limit of $3k. Price hasn’t gone up yet, but I’m sure it will.

<edit 2/19/2023> TLDR…. The CDG was the honey that sweetened the pot. It pushed me over the edge and I went with ARC.

 

[S3th]

MPA's design is more conducive to PRS. That is about it, both are Tier 1 (wish MPA would move away from CC tho lol)

 

[RushT]

MPA's design is more conducive to PRS. That is about it, both are Tier 1 (wish MPA would move away from CC tho lol)

In what way is that? Because of the more traditional chassis? I kind of like the ARC’s implementation of the sight level though. I suppose it doesn’t really matter if the spirit levels are truly level, just as long as they are stable.

 

[b6graham]

if you're gonna spend $3k on either i'd really hope you like all the components on it cause you could build a very nice custom for the same price without making compromises

 

[RushT]

if you're gonna spend $3k on either i'd really hope you like all the components on it cause you could build a very nice custom for the same price without making compromises

There’s that of course. I went that route with my AR builds, and pretty soon I was at >$2.5k. I figured this round I would just get off the shelve ready to go. But let’s say I went that route, what would you start with for chassis, barrel, and receiver?

 

[b6graham]

Origin
Proof prefit
Trigger/brake of choice
Chassis/stock of choice

If you like the Matrix and a Curtis(for whatever reason) then the MPA is a good deal. I just wouldn't pay that for a Curtis actioned rifle

 

[RushT]

A quick price check and barrel plus action for proof and origin is about $2k. That still leaves chassis, trigger, and receiver to go. I’m betting I’d be at >$3k for sure with decent components on the remainder. ARC lists at $2.5k ready to shoot. This is where I got in trouble last time…. What’s a few extra $100 for this or that part, until you add them all up.

School me if I’m missing something on my additive math for this project.

 

[st1650]

ARC Action > Curtis
Xylo > MPA although the MPA excellent, I prefer the Xylo grip on mine.

 

[kindabitey]

I don’t think there’s any comparison between the two. ARC is far above anything from MPA. You can count on double whatever waiting time from MPA and you’ve got a 50/50 chance of having to send it back. I’ve never owned a complete MPA rifle, but three guys I shoot with on a regular basis had to send theirs back multiple times.
Full disclosure, my current setup is Archimedes in a Xylo.

 

[Average guy]

Love MPA chassis, no go on Curtis action. I’ve heard to much negative. ARC seems the way to go. Everything ARC I’ve ever used or handled was quality

 

[NewsShooter]

A quick price check and barrel plus action for proof and origin is about $2k. That still leaves chassis, trigger, and receiver to go. I’m betting I’d be at >$3k for sure with decent components on the remainder. ARC lists at $2.5k ready to shoot. This is where I got in trouble last time…. What’s a few extra $100 for this or that part, until you add them all up.

School me if I’m missing something on my additive math for this project.

That price would be with a carbon barrel, steel prefit is cheaper. I'm seeing about $1400 for action and barrel.

 

[RushT]

That price would be with a carbon barrel, steel prefit is cheaper. I'm seeing about $1400 for action and barrel.

Good catch, and my goof makes my point accidentally. Might need to pull out my spreadsheet and do a virtual build. According to responses so far, it seems ARC is preferred over MPA for a full kit.

 

[b6graham]

it also depends what you want for a barrel contour

ARC full rifles is a pretty small contour

with a proof prefit you're looking at a nice thick barrel which should balance better

 

[pnorris]

You can always ask MPA to use a different action and they will. Got an impact, put in mind directly from them.

 

[Malum Prohibitum]

Origin
Proof prefit
Trigger/brake of choice
Chassis/stock of choice

If you like the Matrix and a Curtis(for whatever reason) then the MPA is a good deal. I just wouldn't pay that for a Curtis actioned rifle

So, roughly:

$ 900 Origin
$ 649 Proof prefit
$ 300 Triggertech Diamond Trigger
$1275 Chassis

$3124 Total


Am I missing anything? I guess I am going to need an action wrench and some kind of barrel vise clamp, oh, and a go or no go gauge.

Is this really a DIY if you have never done it before? I watched the Proof Youtube How To video, lol.

What sort of group size can I expect out of doing this myself as opposed to grabbing a rifle already made off the shelf from one of these manufacturers?

 

[spife7980]

So, roughly:

$ 900 Origin
$ 649 Proof prefit
$ 300 Triggertech Diamond Trigger
$1275 Chassis

$3124 Total


Am I missing anything? I guess I am going to need an action wrench and some kind of barrel vise clamp, oh, and a go or no go gauge.

Is this really a DIY if you have never done it before? I watched the Proof Youtube How To video, lol.

What sort of group size can I expect out of doing this myself as opposed to grabbing a rifle already made off the shelf from one of these manufacturers?

Having both an arc rifle (but done myself in the same manner as the origin way though) and an origin set up the difference is being able to get a heavier contour and chambering right off the batt, which if you compete you might very well want. Proofs can be had for like 500 from front range precision which takes the price down a notch and you don’t have to use a chassis that cost the same as a xylo, you could do a 400 buck bravo if you wanted and come out cheaper.

I can’t tell you my preference between the nuc/xylo or an origin/acc, I like em both a whole lot.

 

[HogsLife]

So, roughly:

$ 900 Origin
$ 649 Proof prefit
$ 300 Triggertech Diamond Trigger
$1275 Chassis

$3124 Total


Am I missing anything? I guess I am going to need an action wrench and some kind of barrel vise clamp, oh, and a go or no go gauge.

Is this really a DIY if you have never done it before? I watched the Proof Youtube How To video, lol.

What sort of group size can I expect out of doing this myself as opposed to grabbing a rifle already made off the shelf from one of these manufacturers?

I have 3 rifles built on Origins with proof Prefits. Here’s a couple groups they laid down during lord development. Ones a 20” 308 running 185gn Juggerbauts and 44 gns Varget. The other is a 24” 7RM running 180 hybrids and 69gns of 4831SC

They shoot plus a the number of features and ou get with the Origin (ie Prefits and Caliber swaps via bolt heads) puts it heads and shoulders above and MPA build. I do like their Chasis though.

Grab a Viper or SAC Barrel Vise and a Zermatt Orgin Action wrench or one of SAC’s modular action wrenches and you’re gtg

 

[b6graham]

So, roughly:

$ 900 Origin
$ 649 Proof prefit
$ 300 Triggertech Diamond Trigger
$1275 Chassis

$3124 Total


Am I missing anything? I guess I am going to need an action wrench and some kind of barrel vise clamp, oh, and a go or no go gauge.

Is this really a DIY if you have never done it before? I watched the Proof Youtube How To video, lol.

What sort of group size can I expect out of doing this myself as opposed to grabbing a rifle already made off the shelf from one of these manufacturers?

proof $550
TT Diamond $250
shop around and you'll get better pricing. and don't be afraid to check the PX. im sure there are several lightly used/new triggers and origin barreled actions that would be a good starting point

don't forget a muzzle brake

action wrench and vise def help and are just investments for down the road when you want a 223 or hunting cartridge. good chance you have someone local that has both already

headspace gauges...sure. or just use brass and tape

a far as groups. no difference. all my proof barrels shoot as well as anything i'd expect from a purchased full rifle

 

[Chasingpro]

Honestly the MPA is way better. If you go that route I would pick up an impact action and bartlein barrel. The matrix pro chassis is the best chassis on the market in my opinion. MPA customer service is second to none. When I placed my order I called in to order over the phone. I spoke to the owner directly and he talked to me for over an hour to make sure I was completely satisfied with the options I selected.

As far as the gun goes, I have printed several .15” groups at 100. My hand loading is probably considered advanced, but still shooting .4 even with what I would consider rushed loads just using a powder dropper and not weighing to the kernel.

 

[RushT]

Just wanted to check in and say I appreciate all the comments so far. It seems there’s now divided opinion on which is a better setup, with some preferring a custom build off the MPA chassis as an alternative.

I fear the price point on one or both is going to jump up soon, so I’m struggling to make a decision before another $500 makes it even harder (or the decision for me).

 

[HogsLife]

Honestly the MPA is way better. If you go that route I would pick up an impact action and bartlein barrel. The matrix pro chassis is the best chassis on the market in my opinion. MPA customer service is second to none. When I placed my order I called in to order over the phone. I spoke to the owner directly and he talked to me for over an hour to make sure I was completely satisfied with the options I selected.

As far as the gun goes, I have printed several .15” groups at 100. My hand loading is probably considered advanced, but still shooting .4 even with what I would consider rushed loads just using a powder dropper and not weighing to the kernel.

That’s the setup i ran. Hard to beat

 

[Malum Prohibitum]

MPA's design is more conducive to PRS. That is about it, both are Tier 1 (wish MPA would move away from CC tho lol)

Origin
Proof prefit
Trigger/brake of choice
Chassis/stock of choice

If you like the Matrix and a Curtis(for whatever reason) then the MPA is a good deal. I just wouldn't pay that for a Curtis actioned rifle

ARC Action > Curtis
Xylo > MPA although the MPA excellent, I prefer the Xylo grip on mine.

Love MPA chassis, no go on Curtis action. I’ve heard to much negative. ARC seems the way to go. Everything ARC I’ve ever used or handled was quality

Seems like a lot of hate on the Curtis actions. I've never owned or shot one. What is the problem with them? They are quite a bit more expensive than the Zermatt Origin that is being recommended above.

 

[b6graham]

Seems like a lot of hate on the Curtis actions. I've never owned or shot one. What is the problem with them? They are quite a bit more expensive than the Zermatt Origin that is being recommended above.

a lot of it is more directed at who runs Curtis and not the actions them selves though they haven't always been problem free. see Terminus for a vastly superior 60 degree and Joel is the man

 

[padfoot 37]

I also have this question and have been going back and forth. Both of them are right at the max budget i have to spend on this from the sale of a couple gun i never shot. Really cant afford more than that but i do have some mechanical ability so totally could put together a build with a prefit if the price got low enough. I like the look of both of the chassis, got to play with the mpa one and it was very nice, havnt seen the xylo so no comment. Lots of reviews on both companies on here, about as polarized as these comments are here with no apparent clear winner to me atleast. Not having been in the prs world for long i cant for the life of me figure out what is wrong with curtis actions. No experience personally at all but every issue i can find online was resolved in a reasonable time by their customer service. What are we missing? I can find quite a few very well respected shooters who love both the mpa rifles and the arc rifles. Yet anytime its discussed there are many negative comments about both companies with little varified examples just "i wouldnt buy..." i say all this to sincerly ask as someone not new to precision rifles but new to some of the fancier brands and stuff, whats the controversy regarding these two brands? I mean the precision rifle blog put curtis custom in the 3rd or 4th most used custom actions with a bunch of top 10 placers as well. Arc was further down but still i figure any gun on that list is better than me and can teach me alot. Thanks for reading this whole question to this point, would love tof better understand whats going on so i dont waste my money.

 

[padfoot 37]

a lot of it is more directed at who runs Curtis and not the actions them selves though they haven't always been problem free. see Terminus for a vastly superior 60 degree and Joel is the man

Could you expound on that a bit for those of us not in the know? Been trying to answer this question myself.

 

[RushT]

Could you expound on that a bit for those of us not in the know? Been trying to answer this question myself.

I wonder if it’s sort of like a 4x4 aftermarket vendor that got caught defacing property in a national park. Hasn’t lived it down yet in the Tacoma truck world. They are a reseller of other products, but they get hammered anytime someone mentions them.

 

[S3th]

Could you expound on that a bit for those of us not in the know? Been trying to answer this question myself.

Terminus Actions

Most of you know that I separated myself from another custom action company because I was unwilling to compromise on my demanding standards and fundamental business practices. I played key roles in that business that included designing actions to being solely responsible for making the original...

www.snipershide.com

 

[Chasingpro]

Just get yourself an MPA chassis, impact action, and a bartlein barrel. You’ll be happy and won’t be left wanting the next best.

 

[Malum Prohibitum]

Bartlein barrels seem to be very hard to come by these days, out of stock

 

[padfoot 37]

Honestly the MPA is way better. If you go that route I would pick up an impact action and bartlein barrel. The matrix pro chassis is the best chassis on the market in my opinion. MPA customer service is second to none. When I placed my order I called in to order over the phone. I spoke to the owner directly and he talked to me for over an hour to make sure I was completely satisfied with the options I selected.

As far as the gun goes, I have printed several .15” groups at 100. My hand loading is probably considered advanced, but still shooting .4 even with what I would consider rushed loads just using a powder dropper and not weighing to the kernel.

 

[mi650]

I bought my MPA PMR Comp off the shelf from RK Guns a couple years ago, before the price increase and before they changed the accuracy guarantee to 1/2" from 3/8". I've since changed everything except the BA.

Only problem is I haven't shot enough the last couple years to really see what it will do. If I get enough practice in to be at my best, I have no doubt it will do 3/8". The 1 round low and left was my fault, I pulled it.

 

[Malum Prohibitum]

Well, shoot another group and try not to pull.

 

[CK1.0]

I'd recommend starting off your new rifle project by picking out an action that accepts pre-fit barrels and setting aside:

~$60 for a barrel vise,
~$100 (usually less) for an action wrench,
~$50 for a go-gauge,
and ~$20-100+ for a 50-100lb torque wrench (if you don't already own one).

Congratulations, now you are the gunsmith for your new build, own what you'll need going forward, and don't have to settle for picking one of the limited off-the-shelf rifle options out there.

IMHO, for a chassis, a fully kitted-out Bravo is better than either of those chassis for someone on a budget for around ~$700 with nearly everything KRG sells to bolt onto it (including all the weights, which add up). All of which is easy to get rid of down the road since there are like ~million Bravo owners who lurk in the PX, and those (like me) who might pick one up because they like them still even though they own fancier shit. Either of those other chassis' are more of a long-term risk/commitment you are more likely to get hosed on if you decide to send them down the line in order to buy something else one day, the ARC more so than the MPA (the MPA is far and away more popular).

Most importantly, that'll allow you to afford a top-shelf trigger, which in Toyota-parlance, you want "TRD Pro" level trim, not "SR5" lol.

 

[padfoot 37]

E

Just get yourself an MPA chassis, impact action, and a bartlein barrel. You’ll be happy and won’t be left wanting the next best.

very time i try to price that out i get like 3500 or more for a build with a decent chassis...

 

[HogsLife]

E

very time i try to price that out i get like 3500 or more for a build with a decent chassis...

That’s a litte high I think.

Imapct 1200
Bartlien Prefit $700
TT Special $175
MPA Chasis (used here on PX) $800-ish
Muzzle Brake $200-ish

$3100-ish

 

[pineoak]

That’s a litte high I think.

Imapct 1200
Bartlien Prefit $700
TT Special $175
MPA Chasis (used here on PX) $800-ish
Muzzle Brake $200-ish

$3100-ish

Don't short change the trigger... get the Diamond over the Special

Curious how an Origin/Proof Prefit would shoot against the Impact/Bartlein all else being equal

Get a used brake. People ditch them all the time practically new. And they rarely malfunction even when you buy them used.

 

[HogsLife]

Don't short change the trigger... get the Diamond over the Special

Curious how an Origin/Proof Prefit would shoot against the Impact/Bartlein all else being equal

Get a used brake. People ditch them all the time practically new. And they rarely malfunction even when you buy them used.

I’ve had both. Personally have no need for a 4oz trigger. TT Special runs just fine for me. Only difference is Diamond will run lower lbs. Special is same creep free crisp feel as the Diamond .

You’re not referring to the TT Field are you?

 

[HogsLife]

Don't short change the trigger... get the Diamond over the Special

Curious how an Origin/Proof Prefit would shoot against the Impact/Bartlein all else being equal

Get a used brake. People ditch them all the time practically new. And they rarely malfunction even when you buy them used.

You’re not gonna see a difference accuracy wise. My Impact / Bartlien shot amazing. I currently have 3 rifles built
On Origins with Proof barrels and they hammer .2’s all day long.

 

[CK1.0]

Always buy as much skill as you can afford.

4oz - 1lb is a far nicer neighborhood for a fancy sniper rifle than some 1lb-4+lb trailer park lol. TT Diamond > TT Special

 

[karagias]

Came across this video recently. You guys might find it helpful. I liked it but I'm biased.



Ted

 

[Hickswr]

MPA sells prefits for $600

 

[HogsLife]

Always buy as much skill as you can afford.

4oz - 1lb is a far nicer neighborhood for a fancy sniper rifle than some 1lb-4+lb trailer park lol. TT Diamond > TT Special

No one running a 4oz trigger on a practical use field rifle much less a sniper rifle dude. That’s a pinkies up tea drinking benchrest rufle at best. Spend another $100 of a trigger for range in trigger press you ain’t gonna use. Nothing wrong with the Special. Anything under 1lb on a field rifle is stupid.

Adjust a Diamond and a special to 1lb and
You won’t know which one is which. Same damn trigger. More adjustability. For a field rifle, TT Special is perfeftly
Fine.

I ran my Diamond to 8oz and hated it. 1-1.5lbs for me is perfect.

 

[LR1845]

.This is a $2499 ARC Nucleus shooting factory 140g ELDM's rounds 36 through 40...shot a match the next day and took 10th outta 18 shooters with no verified dopes, using shooter for dopes, first match after a 2 year break and zeroed one stage...my old ass just dont bend like that anymore LOL...needless to say I wont be reloading anymore.

 

[HogsLife]

.This is a $2499 ARC Nucleus shooting factory 140g ELDM's rounds 36 through 40...shot a match the next day and took 10th outta 18 shooters with no verified dopes, using shooter for dopes, first match after a 2 year break and zeroed one stage...my old ass just dont bend like that anymore LOL...needless to say I wont be reloading anymore.


View attachment 8066773

Factory Hornady stuff shoots great. Just slow. It’s all a shoot through my 6.5CM. I was pretty surprised in the high SD’s and ES in the stuff I shot but it shot great none the less.

 

[LR1845]

Factory Hornady stuff shoots great. Just slow. It’s all a shoot through my 6.5CM. I was pretty surprised in the high SD’s and ES in the stuff I shot but it shot great none the less.

I don't even own a chrony anymore so I'm not 100% sure on velocity but dopes line up perfectly with 2720 plugged into shooter...this was a few weeks after the match at 425yds and I swear this is 3 rounds...this gun shoots and is not real picky. It shoots the factory Norma 143g Golden Target just about as good as the ELDM ammo.

 

[The D]

Came across this video recently. You guys might find it helpful. I liked it but I'm biased.



Ted

I’ve watched another video this guy does and it’s pretty good. He shoots 6cm, prone, and goes from ~300 to ~750 with about 10 shots and 15 minutes.

Edit: @RushT is there any chance you can handle either of these? Both would be preferable but even one of the two could be the difference maker.

 

[pineoak]

I’ve had both. Personally have no need for a 4oz trigger. TT Special runs just fine for me. Only difference is Diamond will run lower lbs. Special is same creep free crisp feel as the Diamond .

You’re not referring to the TT Field are you?

TT says they are the exact same design. Only differing in pull weight.

Only difference between them other than weight was the shoe.

Wife preferred the Diamond over the Special when both set to 1.5#. She asked for the Diamond after trying it in someone else's gun. I think the Diamond feels better as well.

Yes, I am aware the Special gets down to 1.0#

Just sharing my experience.

 

[HogsLife]

TT says they are the exact same design. Only differing in pull weight.

Only difference between them other than weight was the shoe.

Wife preferred the Diamond over the Special when both set to 1.5#. She asked for the Diamond after trying it in someone else's gun. I think the Diamond feels better as well.

Yes, I am aware the Special gets down to 1.0#

Just sharing my experience.

Trigger shoe design makes a big difference in feel too. Personally hate the standard. Pro-Curve and flat shoe has a great feel to me. Flat shoe on comp gun , pro curve on my hunting rifles. Had a Diamond, loved it but didn’t use the <1lb weight so wasn’t worth the additional cost. Run specials on everything now.

 

[RushT]

Edit: @RushT is there any chance you can handle either of these? Both would be preferable but even one of the two could be the difference maker.

I’d have to do some research and see if there are any retailers that carry them in DFW. I’m not plugged in with any other shooters, so that’s unfortunate.

 

[FievelTX]

My vote would be for ARC as well. I own a MPA PMR PRO II, and am just not super impressed. It shoots well, but the cerakote is chipping and the bolt DLC started coming off in less than 200 rounds. Had another issue with the chamber and they went radio silent. For the price it’s still a great rifle, but maybe my expectations were just higher.