Night Vision Mawl c1+ owners... I'm curious

[PlinkIt]

I have an apple to orange question here for those of you lucky enough to have both a mawl c1+ and access to restricted lasers such as as the various PEQ units

I'm not asking about the legalities of owning one vs the other here as I'm well aware of the issues and possible losses

But I'm curious...

If you run the mawl side by side with something like a full power PEQ, just how well does it keep up with performance when looking through a good quality clip on at distance? How far of a distance before you see one just completely curb stomp the other? Also if you can give any comparative distances can you reference which output you are referring to?

If anyone has input but doesn't wish to post it, please feel free to message me.

Thanks

 

[DownRangeThermal]

When you say full power PEQ are you talking Atpial/peq15 standard power, HP (LA5 B),... or UHP (LA5 C)? I am assuming you mean the Standard Power (restricted) as they are the most common.
The Atpial c is "low power" and of course commercial market.

The C1+ has an "eye safe" 80mw illuminator. The standard Atpial has a non eye safe 30mw (currently) illuminator. I've used them side by side and for me the MAWL c1+ is more uniform cleaner and easier on the eyes than the laser based illuminator in the atpial.

One thing to note is all modes for the MAWL have a pointer active. The peq allows for illuminator only and aperture can be adjusted from 1 to 100+ mrad.....some agencies only order PEQ units for clip on use because of the above.

For commercial eye safe purposes the C1+ blows everything else away. ......edited to note -that is my opinion from a total package standpoint. I do think there are better options in the commercial market for stand alone illuminators.

 

[PlinkIt]

When you say full power PEQ are you talking Atpial/peq15 standard power, HP (LA5 B),... or UHP (LA5 C)? I am assuming you mean the Standard Power (restricted) as they are the most common.
The Atpial c is "low power" and of course commercial market.

Was interested in whatever comparison someone may be able to give really (also why I mentioned various PEQ models and if anyone could reference the output of model they are comparing). I'm only personally familiar with the standard PEQ 15, but I do know there are a few LA-5 units floating around. I would fully expect the LA-5C to absolutely crush the mawl for example, but I'm still wondering how far before this is actually an obvious difference... and if the illumination performance is worth the hassle is the decision I'm trying to make... I'm guessing for a hand full of guys here shooting to a mile at night it may be a HUGE difference, but does the mawl "keep up" let's say to a half mile for illumination purposes?...

The C1+ has an "eye safe" 80mw illuminator. The standard Atpial has a non eye safe 30mw (currently) illuminator. I've used them side by side and for me the MAWL c1+ is more uniform cleaner and easier on the eyes than the laser based illuminator in the atpial.

I'm guessing from this that you'd say the standard PEQ and the mawl then are possibly the closest comparison in a performance aspect, but the mawl is showing a smoother illumination between the two? Or do you just reference it because it's the most common?

One thing to note is all modes for the MAWL have a pointer active. The peq allows for illuminator only and aperture can be adjusted from 1 to 100+ mrad.....some agencies only order PEQ units for clip on use because of the above.

I hadn't even thought about this being a deciding factor... I have used just the illuminator on the PEQ models, but never really have thought to the laser being on causing any issue... Now the adjustable aperture is another example of the apple / orange scenerio that I had been ASSUMING would allow the various PEQ models to really beat up on the mawl if you started to push into longer distances. Do you ever really see it show a benefit? Or does the mawl still punch out there in an equal & clearer manner in this scenario as well?

For commercial eye safe purposes the C1+ blows everything else away.

I've read / watched so many comparisons to other eye safe units that it seems to certainly blow eye safe stuff away, and have even seen a couple state they would take it over the non eyesafe models, but I have yet to see them compared at distances beyond, let's say, 400 yards and wonder if it's because the mawl just runs out of gas compared to the full power units or if the reviews I'm watching just didn't have access to a longer range to show how they compare.

Thanks for the insight here, as it is another incredibly hard thing to make a decision about when you can't look at things side by side

 

[WhereNow&How]

Not exactly the question you asked, but being you said "good quality clip on", here is a Luna ELIR-3 (90 mW) 810 nm version at 1,000 yards exactly. This is a measured known distance at a long range shooting range. The Luna has a much cleaner beam than most of the full power LAM's out there like the PEQ15, LA5, Dbal A2 & 3 and is much more powerful with the exception of the lA5 which if you can find a legit one will set you back a minimum of several thousand. Currently available Luna ELIR-3 are 70 mW at 850 nm and still outperform (with a cleaner beam & power) most full power LAM's. Also the ability to quickly vary the power, X & Y alignment and beam width with a "clip on" make it probably the best Laser diode based Illuminator available for $300 to $350ish.

 

[PlinkIt]

@WhereNow&How I'm barking up a similar tree as what you are speaking of. I jus finished modifying another Luna for finger adjustments

Basically I'm just trying to decide if the.... "Liabilities" .... If something like a PEQ15 or even a LA-5C are ever even going to be able to distinguish themselves from the more readily available options like the Luna or the MAWL

You are 100% correct that the illuminator is the tree I'm barking questions up though, but before I buy a MAWL I want to make sure I'm not missing a reason to get another high output unit

 

[WhereNow&How]

If you want to refine it down some, here are the correct Thumbscrews that work perfectly with them. I also put 2 of these tiny O Rings on each screw shaft to provide a watertight seal and some tension. I also take a small "Ranger Band" cut from bicycle inter-tube and then twist it around the Thumbscrews to provide even more positive retention under recoil.

Thumb Screws

303 Stainless Steel Thumb Screw, Plain Finish, Knurled Head, 8mm Length, Fully Threaded, M3-0.5 Metric Coarse Threads, Made in US (Pack of 5): Amazon.com: Industrial & Scientific

303 Stainless Steel Thumb Screw, Plain Finish, Knurled Head, 8mm Length, Fully Threaded, M3-0.5 Metric Coarse Threads, Made in US (Pack of 5): Amazon.com: Industrial & Scientific

www.amazon.com

O Rings

Dart Shaft O-Rings for Soft or Steel Tip Darts, Only 2ba(3/1th Inch) Washers、O-ring2.00x1.00 NBR50 Oring (50): Amazon.com: Industrial & Scientific

Dart Shaft O-Rings for Soft or Steel Tip Darts, Only 2ba(3/1th Inch) Washers、O-ring2.00x1.00 NBR50 Oring (50): Amazon.com: Industrial & Scientific

www.amazon.com

 

[WhereNow&How]

I don't think the MAWL will work very well with a clip on. No way to focus the beam nor quickly align it to your scope view. Likewise a regular PEQ 15 requires a tool to adjust the Illuminator. The LA5 and Dbal A2 both have thumb wheels that allow you to adjust the Illuminator fairly easily. At different ranges, quite often it helps to be able to quickly adjust any of the Illuminators to your scope view because of 2 diverging devices on a specific target via both alignment and focus width.

 

[PlinkIt]

Thanks for the links/info

I am getting closer to the idea of dedicated units like the Luna for the clip on and a mawl for the carbines / 14 use as it is.

Just trying to make sure I'm not missing something before I cry out the money for a MAWL

 

[WhereNow&How]

Thanks for the links/info

I am getting closer to the idea of dedicated units like the Luna for the clip on and a mawl for the carbines / 14 use as it is.

Just trying to make sure I'm not missing something before I cry out the money for a MAWL

I think you are headed the right direction with the Luna's for the Clip Ons.

Another option for the Carbines/14 use is "marrying" a Luna ElIR-3 to a Civi Dbal A3. I have done that quite a bit and it works very well. IMHO it will outperform a MAWL in some ways that are important.

1. Dbal A3 has instant Overide to Green Vis Point & White Light
2. You can focus the intensity and width of the Illuminator much better with your IR Pointer so that you don't have wash out under
varying lighting conditions.
3. Longer run time because strong ELIR-3 Illuminator running off its own battery so Dbal A3 Battery is only running the IR Pointer.
4. You can infinitely vary the power of your Illuminator via the Luna Rheostat to suit the specific lighting conditions.
5. Ability to tune the Illuminator power to the IR Point Dot results in a very fine aiming dot for more precise shots.
6. The Luna ELIR-3 will run off RCR 123 Rechargeable Batteries fine, so every time you go out you can know for sure you are at 100% battery power on your Illuminator, which is the bigger power consumer on any LAM. Not sure if Dbals will because I haven't "sacked up enough" yet to potentially fry an expensive device like the Dbal. LOL
7. You also retain a backup Illuminator via the denutted Dbal A3 Illuminator for close quarter use if need be.


To do the "marriage" so that a single press of a pressure switch activates the Luna Illuminator and the Dbal A3 IR Pointer, requires you to get the Surefire/Luna adapter, Surefire Tail Switch and Unity Taps Sync or Taps Pro or the upcoming Unity Hot Button. All in, it costs around $1,750 ish to do the setup, but it will smoke a MAWL in performance and will sit right up there with a LA 5B.

 

[PlinkIt]

That pretty well sums up some answers for me thanks

I've been on fence about getting a MAWL as combo unit for a gas gun when that amount of money could provide funding of a high power unit, but I may already have units like the Luna which can do equal ability for "longer range" clip on use and just have the mawl on a gas gun as 14 & intermediate range illuminator.

Between your comments and a couple messages it doesn't seem like I'm leaving anything on the table getting a MAWL if I still have Luna units as well

 

[Gasgun]

Is there a member here that sells the Luna?

 

[WhereNow&How]

Surgeon Shooter (Jay) here on the Hide sells them.

 

[crossgun]

Owning both a couple of MAWLS and FULL power PEQ i'm a little confused about the info you are seeking. Are you more concerned about the illumination or the IR laser? Your use would be long range with a clip on so i assume your just looking for illumination? No reason to buy a MAWL or PEQ for that.

If you can clarify I can better comment.

 

[PlinkIt]

@crossgun sorry I may have asked too vague of a question while wondering what I should pursue...

I'm not interested in full power aiming lasers. I actually wish I could dim the low power laser to be honest.

I do like the combo unit for a gas gun so I can have the laser for aiming and an illuminator I can put a diffuser on to make a flood illumination when I want to light up a shadowed area.

So units like the PEQ with diffuser seem to work well in this closer illumination and aiming mode, and also if you remove the diffuser and put the simrad on the same rifle it may now be very functional as a longer range clip on illumination.

So while trying to decide how to set up a rifle I'm torn between getting something like the MAWL which is expensive ass hell, Or getting another PEQ unit, or just going with something like a taps switch and OTAL with either the Luna or something like a surefire that could be swapped out when adding clip on.

I'm getting closer to the latter after the more people I talk to

 

[WaltHer]

MY experience with the MAWL C1+ as an illuminator for a clip on has been pretty disappointing. Even in long range mode the wide (and non-adjustable) pattern of the MAWL backlights any foliage between me and the target. The adjustable focus and gain of the ELIR has been much more useful for both pointing and illuminating. Wish I would have saved the 2500 on the MAWL.