Ok, when i look up the information i get mixed signals. Are MI residents now allowed to get suppressors. Some sites say yes some say no.
Suppressors Michigan suppressor question.
- Thread starter thumper49802
- Start date
Re: Michigan suppressor question.
Guys, this is not legal advice, so don't take it as such, but for the sake of the conversation and to bring you up to date read this first:
THE MICHIGAN PENAL CODE (EXCERPT)
Act 328 of 1931
750.224 Weapons; manufacture, sale, or possession as felony; violation as felony; penalty; exceptions; "muffler" or "silencer" defined.
Sec. 224.
(1) A person shall not manufacture, sell, offer for sale, or possess any of the following:
(a) A machine gun or firearm that shoots or is designed to shoot automatically more than 1 shot without manual reloading, by a single function of the trigger.
(b) A muffler or silencer.
(c) A bomb or bombshell.
(d) A blackjack, slungshot, billy, metallic knuckles, sand club, sand bag, or bludgeon.
(e) A device, weapon, cartridge, container, or contrivance designed to render a person temporarily or permanently disabled by the ejection, release, or emission of a gas or other substance.
(2) A person who violates subsection (1) is guilty of a felony, punishable by imprisonment for not more than 5 years, or a fine of not more than $2,500.00, or both.
(3) Subsection (1) does not apply to any of the following:
(a) A self-defense spray or foam device as defined in section 224d.
(b) A person manufacturing firearms, explosives, or munitions of war by virtue of a contract with a department of the government of the United States.
(c) A person licensed by the secretary of the treasury of the United States or the secretary's delegate to manufacture, sell, or possess a machine gun, or a device, weapon, cartridge, container, or contrivance described in subsection (1).
(4) As used in this chapter, "muffler" or "silencer" means 1 or more of the following:
(a) A device for muffling, silencing, or deadening the report of a firearm.
(b) A combination of parts, designed or redesigned, and intended for use in assembling or fabricating a muffler or silencer.
(c) A part, designed or redesigned, and intended only for use in assembling or fabricating a muffler or silencer.
Now look again at section 3(c). There's the rub: The answer appears to be 'Yes', as in there's no crime to be charged if you have a federal license to 'possess'; but the short answer is 'No', because the State Police have announced its intent to charge any non licensed person unless and until there is an Attorney Gereneral's opinion regarding 3(c) specific to 'silencers'. So, even if your argument has some merit, you don't want to be the test case.
That said, Michigan relaxed the rules on Class III in a similar fashion: with an AG's opinion regarding the possession of machine guns.
The people of Michigan are now waiting on an AG opinion about 'silencers' that is consistent with the machine gun opinion.
The rest is just politics....
Guys, this is not legal advice, so don't take it as such, but for the sake of the conversation and to bring you up to date read this first:
THE MICHIGAN PENAL CODE (EXCERPT)
Act 328 of 1931
750.224 Weapons; manufacture, sale, or possession as felony; violation as felony; penalty; exceptions; "muffler" or "silencer" defined.
Sec. 224.
(1) A person shall not manufacture, sell, offer for sale, or possess any of the following:
(a) A machine gun or firearm that shoots or is designed to shoot automatically more than 1 shot without manual reloading, by a single function of the trigger.
(b) A muffler or silencer.
(c) A bomb or bombshell.
(d) A blackjack, slungshot, billy, metallic knuckles, sand club, sand bag, or bludgeon.
(e) A device, weapon, cartridge, container, or contrivance designed to render a person temporarily or permanently disabled by the ejection, release, or emission of a gas or other substance.
(2) A person who violates subsection (1) is guilty of a felony, punishable by imprisonment for not more than 5 years, or a fine of not more than $2,500.00, or both.
(3) Subsection (1) does not apply to any of the following:
(a) A self-defense spray or foam device as defined in section 224d.
(b) A person manufacturing firearms, explosives, or munitions of war by virtue of a contract with a department of the government of the United States.
(c) A person licensed by the secretary of the treasury of the United States or the secretary's delegate to manufacture, sell, or possess a machine gun, or a device, weapon, cartridge, container, or contrivance described in subsection (1).
(4) As used in this chapter, "muffler" or "silencer" means 1 or more of the following:
(a) A device for muffling, silencing, or deadening the report of a firearm.
(b) A combination of parts, designed or redesigned, and intended for use in assembling or fabricating a muffler or silencer.
(c) A part, designed or redesigned, and intended only for use in assembling or fabricating a muffler or silencer.
Now look again at section 3(c). There's the rub: The answer appears to be 'Yes', as in there's no crime to be charged if you have a federal license to 'possess'; but the short answer is 'No', because the State Police have announced its intent to charge any non licensed person unless and until there is an Attorney Gereneral's opinion regarding 3(c) specific to 'silencers'. So, even if your argument has some merit, you don't want to be the test case.
That said, Michigan relaxed the rules on Class III in a similar fashion: with an AG's opinion regarding the possession of machine guns.
The people of Michigan are now waiting on an AG opinion about 'silencers' that is consistent with the machine gun opinion.
The rest is just politics....
Re: Michigan suppressor question.
FFL/SOT's, Police Departments, and .gov can own Silencers in Michigan, your Attorney General re-interpreted the statute on MG's but stopped short of Silencers.
There was some speculation that he would go the step further for Cans but never did.
FFL/SOT's, Police Departments, and .gov can own Silencers in Michigan, your Attorney General re-interpreted the statute on MG's but stopped short of Silencers.
There was some speculation that he would go the step further for Cans but never did.
Re: Michigan suppressor question.
"....sand bag or bludgeon."
Something I'm missing here? Sandbags and sticks are illegal for possession by MI law?
"....sand bag or bludgeon."
Something I'm missing here? Sandbags and sticks are illegal for possession by MI law?
Re: Michigan suppressor question.
The only thing I miss about Michigan is basements, it's a fducked up state full of liberal idiots, corrupt city leaders, and people with there hands out, let the economy come back and move.
The only thing I miss about Michigan is basements, it's a fducked up state full of liberal idiots, corrupt city leaders, and people with there hands out, let the economy come back and move.
Re: Michigan suppressor question.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hink</div><div class="ubbcode-body">"....sand bag or bludgeon." What am I missing here?</div></div>We call them rear rests, nobody has any sand bags here.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 427Cobra</div><div class="ubbcode-body">it's a fducked up state full of liberal idiots, corrupt city leaders, and people with there hands out,</div></div>Which one am I?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hink</div><div class="ubbcode-body">"....sand bag or bludgeon." What am I missing here?</div></div>We call them rear rests, nobody has any sand bags here.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 427Cobra</div><div class="ubbcode-body">it's a fducked up state full of liberal idiots, corrupt city leaders, and people with there hands out,</div></div>Which one am I?
Re: Michigan suppressor question.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 427Cobra</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The only thing I miss about Michigan is basements, it's a fducked up state full of liberal idiots, corrupt city leaders, and people with there hands out, let the economy come back and move. </div></div>
so true, im sick of working for people to sit on their asses and collect benifits that they dont need.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 427Cobra</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The only thing I miss about Michigan is basements, it's a fducked up state full of liberal idiots, corrupt city leaders, and people with there hands out, let the economy come back and move. </div></div>
so true, im sick of working for people to sit on their asses and collect benifits that they dont need.
Re: Michigan suppressor question.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: thumper49802</div><div class="ubbcode-body">so true, im sick of working for people to sit on their asses and collect benifits...</div></div>Like the many skilled workers I know who lost their jobs and are now collecting unemployment?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: thumper49802</div><div class="ubbcode-body">so true, im sick of working for people to sit on their asses and collect benifits...</div></div>Like the many skilled workers I know who lost their jobs and are now collecting unemployment?
Re: Michigan suppressor question.
Graham your not any of those people, nor is anybody else who post here from Michigan, I can feel your anger, all I'm saying is there are way better places to live in this country, not just the places who have better gun laws, I was born and raised in Dearborn, my parents and all there brothers sisters aunts uncles all lived and worked in Dearborn, only a cousin is left, he happens to have a great job with Ford, everybody else moved out, at get togethers we raise a toast to moving. I spent the first 10 days of July at Metro fixing a plane, I was very happy when we took off, sheer depression is what Michigan is right now, it shows in the people, the news, and the area.
Graham your not any of those people, nor is anybody else who post here from Michigan, I can feel your anger, all I'm saying is there are way better places to live in this country, not just the places who have better gun laws, I was born and raised in Dearborn, my parents and all there brothers sisters aunts uncles all lived and worked in Dearborn, only a cousin is left, he happens to have a great job with Ford, everybody else moved out, at get togethers we raise a toast to moving. I spent the first 10 days of July at Metro fixing a plane, I was very happy when we took off, sheer depression is what Michigan is right now, it shows in the people, the news, and the area.
Re: Michigan suppressor question.
I'm not angry, just pokin' you to see if you're real.
That said, I think you're right: I see the hopelessness among the young people here; many I know in their early 30's have lost their jobs and see no future in staying, so they are moving south and west.
No argument that there are many better places to live than Dearborn.
But the west side of the state is very, very nice (if you still have a job), and is still relatively affluent. Those who can are moving from the east side of the state to the west side. After 9-11 I was offered a three-letter federal job on the east side of the state: Thanks; but no thanks.
I'm not angry, just pokin' you to see if you're real.
That said, I think you're right: I see the hopelessness among the young people here; many I know in their early 30's have lost their jobs and see no future in staying, so they are moving south and west.
No argument that there are many better places to live than Dearborn.
Re: Michigan suppressor question.
That's happened before. Back in the early 80's, it was said that you couldn't rent a Uhaul trailer on a one-way rental in Michigan, and people said, "Last one out of Michigan turn off the lights."
I suspect people who leave, though, are unlikely to return.
That's happened before. Back in the early 80's, it was said that you couldn't rent a Uhaul trailer on a one-way rental in Michigan, and people said, "Last one out of Michigan turn off the lights."
I suspect people who leave, though, are unlikely to return.
Re: Michigan suppressor question.
Has there been any update on this law since last year? I think I saw where Mike Cox (the AG) came out with his opinion on silencers but I can't find it.
Has there been any update on this law since last year? I think I saw where Mike Cox (the AG) came out with his opinion on silencers but I can't find it.
Re: Michigan suppressor question.
He maybe came out with an opinion, but we are still a suppressor free state so he must not have done anything "official"
He maybe came out with an opinion, but we are still a suppressor free state so he must not have done anything "official"
Re: Michigan suppressor question.
After I posted I started making some calls asking for the legality of owning a suppressor in MI in light of the Attorney General's opinion #7183 concerning licensing of Machine guns. I called The AG's office, they were unaware of any changes to the suppressor law in light of t he referenced opinion and they referred me to the state police. The state police were not even aware of the opinion allowing machine gun transfers. Next I called the regional ATF office in Grand Rapids. I spoke with a field agent who was very helpful. She told me there was an exception for manufacturers and vaguely referenced something about a SOT to supplement an FFL. She was of the opinion that the AG's opinion did not affect the legality of owning suppressors. She gave me the number to the State police Firearm record division with the admonition that they would be a good source of info and would know of any pending laws affecting suppressors. The MSP Firearm record division lady I talked to was clueless. Clueless!
After I posted I started making some calls asking for the legality of owning a suppressor in MI in light of the Attorney General's opinion #7183 concerning licensing of Machine guns. I called The AG's office, they were unaware of any changes to the suppressor law in light of t he referenced opinion and they referred me to the state police. The state police were not even aware of the opinion allowing machine gun transfers. Next I called the regional ATF office in Grand Rapids. I spoke with a field agent who was very helpful. She told me there was an exception for manufacturers and vaguely referenced something about a SOT to supplement an FFL. She was of the opinion that the AG's opinion did not affect the legality of owning suppressors. She gave me the number to the State police Firearm record division with the admonition that they would be a good source of info and would know of any pending laws affecting suppressors. The MSP Firearm record division lady I talked to was clueless. Clueless!
Re: Michigan suppressor question.
Today I fired off an email to Chuck Ross of Ross Precision gunworks in TX. They manufacture suppressors and I thought they may know if there was a way to transfer one to a MI resident. Chuck said Michigan law prohibits the sale or transfer of silencers to individuals not involved in the business. Quick meaning: if I was a licensed FFL that held a current Class III SOT he could transfer one to me.
A Type 6 License - A license to manufacture and sell ammunition, is not too hard to get and costs $30/3yrs. I do not know what the Class 3 SOT costs. If anyone has experience with either I would like to hear about it.
Today I fired off an email to Chuck Ross of Ross Precision gunworks in TX. They manufacture suppressors and I thought they may know if there was a way to transfer one to a MI resident. Chuck said Michigan law prohibits the sale or transfer of silencers to individuals not involved in the business. Quick meaning: if I was a licensed FFL that held a current Class III SOT he could transfer one to me.
A Type 6 License - A license to manufacture and sell ammunition, is not too hard to get and costs $30/3yrs. I do not know what the Class 3 SOT costs. If anyone has experience with either I would like to hear about it.
Re: Michigan suppressor question.
There is an online petition somewhere... Be damned if I could remember the website though... My "full-auto guy" asked me to sign it... here it is: http://www.change.org/petitions/view/michigan_attorney_general_opinion_on_mcl_750224
There is an online petition somewhere... Be damned if I could remember the website though... My "full-auto guy" asked me to sign it... here it is: http://www.change.org/petitions/view/michigan_attorney_general_opinion_on_mcl_750224
Re: Michigan suppressor question.
Yep, I signed it today.
Heres the info I found on the licensing:
To get a Class 3 SOT status, you need a dealer or manufacturer FFL which includes Type 1, 2, 7, 8, 9, 10 or 11 - and pay a yearly $500 tax due every July 1st.
Yep, I signed it today.
Heres the info I found on the licensing:
To get a Class 3 SOT status, you need a dealer or manufacturer FFL which includes Type 1, 2, 7, 8, 9, 10 or 11 - and pay a yearly $500 tax due every July 1st.
Re: Michigan suppressor question.
I say... Not worth it to me... Hopefully they'll just adjust the law so we can buy the damn things...
I say... Not worth it to me... Hopefully they'll just adjust the law so we can buy the damn things...
Re: Michigan suppressor question.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jumper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Today I fired off an email to Chuck Ross of Ross Precision gunworks in TX. They manufacture suppressors and I thought they may know if there was a way to transfer one to a MI resident. Chuck said Michigan law prohibits the sale or transfer of silencers to individuals not involved in the business. Quick meaning: if I was a licensed FFL that held a current Class III SOT he could transfer one to me.
A Type 6 License - A license to manufacture and sell ammunition, is not too hard to get and costs $30/3yrs. I do not know what the Class 3 SOT costs. If anyone has experience with either I would like to hear about it. </div></div>
As I understand it, ATF takes a dim view of applicants for licences who are not actually going into business. So if you're not actually planning on trying to interest you local PDs/sheriffs in buying MGs and cans FROM YOU, your license is likely to be revoked.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jumper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Today I fired off an email to Chuck Ross of Ross Precision gunworks in TX. They manufacture suppressors and I thought they may know if there was a way to transfer one to a MI resident. Chuck said Michigan law prohibits the sale or transfer of silencers to individuals not involved in the business. Quick meaning: if I was a licensed FFL that held a current Class III SOT he could transfer one to me.
A Type 6 License - A license to manufacture and sell ammunition, is not too hard to get and costs $30/3yrs. I do not know what the Class 3 SOT costs. If anyone has experience with either I would like to hear about it. </div></div>
As I understand it, ATF takes a dim view of applicants for licences who are not actually going into business. So if you're not actually planning on trying to interest you local PDs/sheriffs in buying MGs and cans FROM YOU, your license is likely to be revoked.
Re: Michigan suppressor question.
You need to do some research here. I may be mistaken but when I got my SOT license, the ATF required you to have an 01 or 07 FFL.
Frog is correct, the ATF wants you " actively involved" in the Business of firearms.
Another thing to keep in mind is the SOT license yearly fee f $500 or $1000 depending on the amount of business you do.
500 bucks a year is a lot to pay for a can in my opinion.
You need to do some research here. I may be mistaken but when I got my SOT license, the ATF required you to have an 01 or 07 FFL.
Frog is correct, the ATF wants you " actively involved" in the Business of firearms.
Another thing to keep in mind is the SOT license yearly fee f $500 or $1000 depending on the amount of business you do.
500 bucks a year is a lot to pay for a can in my opinion.
Re: Michigan suppressor question.
Michigan is one weird state.
You have to have a license to possess a handgun.
I couldn't leave my in-laws a pistol to protect themselves
in Flint (the 3rd worst city in the US for violent crime)
because they had to go out and get a license to be legal.
Not to go out and buy one mind you, just to have it in the house. Amazing too is that you need another license in order to carry concealed.
It is my understanding that you need a license for EVERY pistol you own as well. I'm glad my GFL reciprocates or I would never go there at all.
Good luck with that suppressor thing...
Michigan is one weird state.
You have to have a license to possess a handgun.
I couldn't leave my in-laws a pistol to protect themselves
in Flint (the 3rd worst city in the US for violent crime)
because they had to go out and get a license to be legal.
Not to go out and buy one mind you, just to have it in the house. Amazing too is that you need another license in order to carry concealed.
It is my understanding that you need a license for EVERY pistol you own as well. I'm glad my GFL reciprocates or I would never go there at all.
Good luck with that suppressor thing...
Re: Michigan suppressor question.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jumper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Yep, I signed it today.
Heres the info I found on the licensing:
To get a Class 3 SOT status, you need a dealer or manufacturer FFL which includes Type 1, 2, 7, 8, 9, 10 or 11 - and pay a yearly $500 tax due every July 1st.
</div></div>
Cost prohibitive for the casual owner.
I'll have to start working on getting the law changed.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jumper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Yep, I signed it today.
Heres the info I found on the licensing:
To get a Class 3 SOT status, you need a dealer or manufacturer FFL which includes Type 1, 2, 7, 8, 9, 10 or 11 - and pay a yearly $500 tax due every July 1st.
</div></div>
Cost prohibitive for the casual owner.
I'll have to start working on getting the law changed.
Re: Michigan suppressor question.
Im not entirely sure on this, but being a FFL/SOT in michigan still doesnt allow you to USE a "Silencer", only to transport them throughout the state, and to be a dealer to sell to non-mich residents.
Im not entirely sure on this, but being a FFL/SOT in michigan still doesnt allow you to USE a "Silencer", only to transport them throughout the state, and to be a dealer to sell to non-mich residents.
Re: Michigan suppressor question.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jonaddis84</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Im not entirely sure on this, but being a FFL/SOT in michigan still doesnt allow you to USE a "Silencer", only to transport them throughout the state, and to be a dealer to sell to non-mich residents. </div></div>
No you can use them as well, but you damn well have your paperwork in order. Target Sports in Royal Oak rents a full auto MP5SD (sound dampening model) to anyone with about $130 to use at their range.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jonaddis84</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Im not entirely sure on this, but being a FFL/SOT in michigan still doesnt allow you to USE a "Silencer", only to transport them throughout the state, and to be a dealer to sell to non-mich residents. </div></div>
No you can use them as well, but you damn well have your paperwork in order. Target Sports in Royal Oak rents a full auto MP5SD (sound dampening model) to anyone with about $130 to use at their range.
Re: Michigan suppressor question.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SGT ROSS</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You need to do some research here. I may be mistaken but when I got my SOT license, the ATF required you to have an 01 or 07 FFL.
Frog is correct, the ATF wants you " actively involved" in the Business of firearms.
Another thing to keep in mind is the SOT license yearly fee f $500 or $1000 depending on the amount of business you do.
<span style="color: #FF0000">500 bucks a year is a lot to pay for a can in my opinion.</span> </div></div>
That and if the ATF catches you obtaining a license for a personal collection guess where you are headed? Federal charges, then the pokey. You have to be able to show sales for each year and they might not audit you every year but count on them to show up at some point. While your FFL and SOT is on file they have every right to come in and see records of sales and 4473 forms.
A couple years back we had a guy in eastern KY get his FFL, then his SOT. He started buying a few cans here and there and always ordered in pairs. He kept one and tried to sell the other. After having his license for 2 years the ATF came by his home to inspect his records. He ran his "business" out of his house. He had no office, no proper storage for sellable items, no business name displayed, etc. His licenses were revoked and his items confiscated. He got off easy...... to the tune of a $250,000.00 fine. No jail time if I can remember. His sales in those two years...... take a guess:
3 suppressors! All went to one family member that lived 8 miles down the road.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SGT ROSS</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You need to do some research here. I may be mistaken but when I got my SOT license, the ATF required you to have an 01 or 07 FFL.
Frog is correct, the ATF wants you " actively involved" in the Business of firearms.
Another thing to keep in mind is the SOT license yearly fee f $500 or $1000 depending on the amount of business you do.
<span style="color: #FF0000">500 bucks a year is a lot to pay for a can in my opinion.</span> </div></div>
That and if the ATF catches you obtaining a license for a personal collection guess where you are headed? Federal charges, then the pokey. You have to be able to show sales for each year and they might not audit you every year but count on them to show up at some point. While your FFL and SOT is on file they have every right to come in and see records of sales and 4473 forms.
A couple years back we had a guy in eastern KY get his FFL, then his SOT. He started buying a few cans here and there and always ordered in pairs. He kept one and tried to sell the other. After having his license for 2 years the ATF came by his home to inspect his records. He ran his "business" out of his house. He had no office, no proper storage for sellable items, no business name displayed, etc. His licenses were revoked and his items confiscated. He got off easy...... to the tune of a $250,000.00 fine. No jail time if I can remember. His sales in those two years...... take a guess:
3 suppressors! All went to one family member that lived 8 miles down the road.
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