Might be a really dumb question

[outlawkyote]

I served USMC in the mid 80s and Im now working with a devil dog that served in the mid 00's.
We were talking about rifle qualifications and he said "200-500yds" but as I recal my drill instructor specifically said it was 200-500meters. Obviously he was in more recent than I have been but we have a side bet to see who is actually right?
Or maybe its changed during the differential of years?

What say you devil Dogs out there?

 

[Lowlight]

Marines work in Yards,

I was in during the 80s, what I think you are remembering is the sights on the A2, I recall a reference to meters with it. Probably carried over from the Army.

I believe they spoke in meters with the sight adjustments, but we used yards, I just had this argument on FB

In fact, I found this article recently:

Another big potential change to come out of the marksmanship symposium is a request for the Corps to take a look at converting firing ranges from yards to meters.

According to MARADMIN 112/16, Marine Corps Combat Development and Integration directed Training Command to conduct a cost-benefit analysis of converting known distance ranges to the global measuring standard.

For generations of Marines accustomed to shooting in yards, this could mean changing how they gauge distance on the firing range.

Lamb doesn’t see this as a bad thing.
"If you train to think in meters, you’re able to be ahead of the ballgame," he said. "Marines may be shooting in yards, but everything in the Corps is already in meters."

Marines already think in terms of "klicks," he said, so the conversion might ultimately streamline how they think about distance.

I have my original USMC SS School stuff here, all yards, Max effective ranges in yards, etc, they are saying because we Land Nav in Meters, we should have stuck to Meters, vs yards, we always counted, Klicks like he says above, which are meters.


So yards, with meters used in movement vs shooting

 

[Lowlight]

As a postscript to this conversation

I was looking at why this confusion is happening, I think it is the literature for the M16, it is in Meters,

The distances to describe the rifle and its effectiveness is written in Meters, which I suspect is because of the Army as well, Colt just putting out a single spec sheet which lists it all in Meters.

We do bounce between the two, but for shooting we use Yards,

 

[outlawkyote]

So we were actually shooting 500yds as opposed to 500 meters
So we were shooting yards with adjustable "mil" sights? Am I understanding right?
Its sounding like I am going to have to owe him a red bull. LOL

 

[Lowlight]

Yards

 

[Scoutabout]

I remember it being yards in the early 90’s. A few DI’s would say meters then say yards a few minutes later. The dope books were in yards and the range officers all said yards.

 

[Doom]

Found this from 1999. Chap 9 should verify this confusion!

https://www.trngcmd.marines.mil/Portals/207/Docs/TBS/MCRP%203-1A%20Rifle%20Marksmanship.pdf

 

[Lowlight]

Found this from 1999. Chap 9 should verify this confusion!

https://www.trngcmd.marines.mil/Portals/207/Docs/TBS/MCRP%203-1A%20Rifle%20Marksmanship.pdf

The instructions are in Meters in places and the Rifles are calibrated in Meters because of the Army

Army = buy more stuff = preferred treatment

The Army uses Meters vs the USMC with Yards,

So yes it could be confusing if you weren't there or for the guys who's only real experience in the USMC shooting was during boot camp or qualifying once a year, sure it's awful confusing but when you carried the rifle everyday it was not at all

Those who matter get it, the rest can tell Boot Camp stories

 

[Ledzep]

Everything we did was in meters, EXCEPT rifle qual. The square range was in yards. Not a huge deal at 300, but at 500 you had to aim for about halfway between 4 and 5 on the ACOG. My first couple quals were with A2's and irons. I don't remember, though, if there was a noticeable offset at the 500yd line? The damn silhouette was tall enough to eat up a lot of elevation error. May have just worked out with a 6 O'clock hold.

 

[outlawkyote]

I only qualified 3 times during my tour. But now that you mention it, I do remember being told the sights were in meters because they were Army hand-me-downs. That brings it all back, I remember now.
I also remember getting ribbed all the time because we didnt sleep with our M16s like the grunts but thats because we were too busy hitting targets at close to 25 clicks (measured in yards) with the 105, 155 and , the one niner eight.
However I was very proficient with the M16-a2 unless the gas rings got lined up. My best score lost 6 points because they lined up during qualifications. The range master wouldnt let me brake down the bolt to fix the problem during live fire so I had to aim 2 feet to the left to get impact back in the 5s. Dropped my Qualifying score down to a 237.
Thanks for bringing back memories of my previous life with the Boing, Boing gun. (spring sound under my ear).

 

[Lowlight]

I shotup to a 155 in Sniper School

Hated It !

243 with a 203 on the bottom, rapid with the tube out was money