Mil Dot ranging

[CrispyKC]

Any advice is welcome.

My biggest problem with ranging a target with mildots is whether or not the target is for example 2.7 mils high or 2.8 mils (same can be said about width). After looking down the scope for a minute, the optic and eyes start playing games with you, not to mention the mirage distorting objects. I have a time limit to calculate range for multiple targets.

 

[ShtrRdy]

You have to take your best estimate of how many mils an object covers and go with it. This is especially true with objects that are "closer".

 

[Steel head]

Get a reticle with .1’s or .2’s.
a rough ruler gives rough results.
You can sometimes use the width Of the line or dot to help if you know their subtentions.

 

[CrispyKC]

The optics belong to the military. So....Not my decision.

 

[Steel head]

The optics belong to the military. So....Not my decision.

Find the reticle subtentions.
knowing line and dot width really helps.

 

[Lowlight]

Some tips when learning to the range with a reticle, understanding this is a legacy skill and was designed range big stuff like a Full Man at 600 yards and in, not beyond.

In the beginning,
Range both the height and width and average them, you'll find you are more accurate
Also, try to hold the rifle as solid as possible and use the scope to dial the measurement. The scopes adjust in .1, clicking the turrets will help you visualize the size.

Remember these points too,

Dark targets will absorb sunlight and appear smaller
Brightly painted targets will reflect and appear bigger
The reticle values are from the center of the line, not the edges
your angle to target also matters if you are off-center use height, looking up or down use the width

 

[CrispyKC]

I know the dot subtensions, it's that blank space between the dots that I have a tough time with.

 

[Steel head]

Also, try to hold the rifle as solid as possible and use the scope to dial the measurement. The scopes adjust in .1, clicking the turrets will help you visualize the size.

Never thought of that!

you could hold two and dial in the between.

 

[CrispyKC]

Also, try to hold the rifle as solid as possible and use the scope to dial the measurement. The scopes adjust in .1, clicking the turrets will help you visualize the size.

Let's say the target is 2.7 mils high. What your saying is that I could adjust elevation to meets the 2.9 mark that the bottom of the dots reads to better visualize the actual mil reading?

Another problem, the leupold mk4/m3a optic has mil dot reticle with moa turrets.

 

[Steel head]

Let's say the target is 2.7 mils high. What your saying is that I could adjust elevation to meets the 2.9 mark that the bottom of the dots reads to better visualize the actual mil reading?

Another problem, the leupold mk4/m3a optic has mil dot reticle with moa turrets.

Lol
Military logic!

3.43 moa=1 mil so one 1/4 click is .85ish mils

 

[CrispyKC]

1 moa per click elevation adjustment and 1/2 moa per click windage.

 

[Steel head]

1 moa per click elevation adjustment and 1/2 moa per click windage.

jesus.
so much for that!

 

[Lowlight]

you have the M3

must be reserves, you're better off doing it the old fashion way because you're stuck in 1996

hand me down scopes suck

 

[DocRDS]

One the things for situations like this is "shoot both" as in your target is typically not only 0.1 mrad in width. FInd your "range" of estimates and place that range on the target.

 

[CrispyKC]

you have the M3

must be reserves, you're better off doing it the old fashion way because you're stuck in 1996

hand me down scopes suck

If you talking about me being reserves, I'm active. They dont want to spend money on new optics when they are buying new CSASS rifle and optic packages anyways.

 

[FatBoy]

Take this with a grain of salt as I was never a sniper, never played one on TV and was never on a 2 way firing range.

In you example a 2.7 mil target is about 18" at 180 yards. Close enough for a point blank shot. As you move out, 2.7mils at 1k is about 9" tall. If you're . 1 or .2 mils off you're not going to have much issue to 600, likely still inside the 1 MOA elevation adjustments. A 9' target at around 1k is a different story. That same .2 mils is almost 100 yards, and when are you going to have a 9' target to range?


I think I understand your point, estimating the distance between two dots isn't easy but inside 600 yards I don't believe you'll need to be that close in range estimation unless you're in class or setting up TRPs. Your fatal triangle is about 12"×18" if you have a fully exposed, stationary target. If not you probably aren't going to have time to range anyway. I am good friends with a few guys who used these scopes for work downrange and they never dialed. They set it for a specific zero and used hold unders and hold overs. To a man the consensus was they didnt have time to dial. (Think cities, not Astan)

If your trying to just stretch the SASS legs and see what you can do, I would recommend you find a range (there may be one where you're stationed) that allows you to set up and range common objects.(road wheels, window frames, street signs, etc). Use these to set up a range card and then test/check yourself with a laser range finder. I am assuming Army due to the scope. If you are at a place with an SF unit maybe try to link up with one of the guys at the sniper locker. If they have a local SOTIC class and your command backs you try to get a slot.

Edit, checking/fixing my math estimates

 

[CrispyKC]

Take this with a grain of salt as I was never a sniper, never played one on TV and was never in a 2 way firing range.

In you example a 2.7 mil target is about 18" at 180 yards. Close enough for a point blank shot. As you move out, 2.7mils at 1k is about 9" tall.


I think I understand your point, estimating the distance between two dots isn't easy but inside 600 yards I don't believe yould need to be that close in range estimation. Your fatal triangle is about 12"×18" if you have a fully exposed, stationary target. If not you probably aren't going to have time to range anyway. I am good friends with a few guys who used these scopes for work downrange and they never dialed. They set it for a specific zero and used hold unders and hold overs. To a man the consensus was they didnt have time to dial. (Think cities, not Astan)

If your trying to just stretch the SASS legs and see what you can do, I would recommend you find range (there may be one where you're stationed) that allows you to set up and range common objects.(road wheels, window frames, street signs, etc). Use these to set up a range card and then test/check yourself with a laser range finder. I am assuming Army due to the scope. If you are at a place with an SF unit maybe try to link up with one of the guys at the sniper locker. If they have a local SOTIC class and your command backs you try to get a slot.

The zero is set for 500m at the crosshairs. And hold overs go from 100 to 900m from top to bottom. I know the formula for finding range. I am wondering if anyone has tricks to help I identify the different between a .1 mil on a reticle when measuring a target with a mil dot reticle with no subtensions in between.

 

[FatBoy]

The zero is set for 500m at the crosshairs. And hold overs go from 100 to 900m from top to bottom. I know the formula for finding range. I am wondering if anyone has tricks to help I identify the different between a .1 mil on a reticle when measuring a target with a mil dot reticle with no subtensions in between.

As poor as I range estimate, the only way I was even partially proficient was a shit load of practice against a range finder. Luckily, this can be done without the rifle if the arms room will let you sign the scope out without the rifle.

This has got to be exponentially harder in places without stabdard sized windows, doors, etc..

There used to a online simulator years ago that allowed you to mil different sized targets and work up a firing solution. Someone here probably remembers the link or has a copy of it.

Edit:

Long Range Shooting Simulation

Not sure if they still have a demo

 

[CrispyKC]

Thanks I'll check it out.

 

[CrispyKC]

Just an update guys, if you care. Passed my range estimate evals. Like fatboy said, practice is about the only thing you can do when give not subtensions between mil dots. Thanks guys for the help.