Night Vision .Military PVS-4

[rbeckwith]

I have come across some US Military PVS-4 night vision equipment and I was looking to find out more about it. I have a Rifle mounted scope with IR Illuminator, batteries and a hard case. My father used this scope on a .223 with light loads to take out Coyotes and Fox at night. He no longer uses the gear and is looking to get rid of it. I am going to try and help him sell it, but I am not sure what it is worth.

Any help would be appreciated.

This is NOT a classified advertisement...I do not have enough posts to sell on this site, so please do not make an offer to purchase until my 100 post requirement is met.

Thanks,

Rbeckwith

 

[bohem]

Re: .Military PVS-4

I've got a few spare parts for the PVS-4's as well as a hard case if you want to sell a more complete system.

 

[rbeckwith]

Re: .Military PVS-4

I've got a pelican style case for it already and lots of parts. My Father is a whiz with these things and built a few over the years using PVS 4 tubes, 2nd Gen, 35 Mil camera lenses and spare parts. Thanks for the offer, but looking to just get some prices and eventually sell what I have.

 

[rbeckwith]

Re: .Military PVS-4

I also have a manual for this Scope...somthing that is not easy to come by. It is a .PDF, not the original, but still if effective.

 

[yellowcarbon]

Re: .Military PVS-4

The PVS-4 with the standard gen 2 tube in it (which most do), go for $750-$1K pretty regularly on Ebay. I am talking 1 to 2 are sold each week. I have been watching it for the past 5 or 6 months. Now, if it is in extra nice condition or has a gen 3 tube (rare), they go for more. I sold mine for right around $900shipped. I only sold because I needed the money and had a gen 3 Nighthawk 4x scope in bound to me.

The PVS-4 is an excellent scope. While it is big and heavy, it is very rugged and it works very well for a gen 2 scope. It has a very big and heavy front lens that really gathers light. It can handle just about any recoil, so it is excellent for higher power platforms that will kill a PVS-14 weapon mounted monocular.

 

[rbeckwith]

Re: .Military PVS-4

This one has the Gen 2 tube. The scope itself is in good shape and comes with a bunch of extras...the IR Illuminators are hard to come by and expensive. This IR Illum. has had a reostat installed so you can adjust the intensity of the IR beam. Also, the battery pack has been converted to take AAA Batteries rather than the hard to find and expensive military batteries. It also has a custom mount for a Remington model 7 that works with Leupold Tip-off style rings so the scope is easy to take off and put back on the rifle. I would think this would be on the higher end of that.

Here is a photo of it mounted to the Model 7. Sold the rifle and extra stock for it this week, so it is gone already.

The viewer in the photo is one that my Father made out of some PVS pipe, a gen 2 tube, 35 Mil camera lenses and some spare parts from other NV equipment. I think he is going to keep that one.

 

[yellowcarbon]

Re: .Military PVS-4

The condition of the scope looks good in the picture, so that is definitely good. In fact, it is a tad nicer that many of the lower priced units I have seen for sale in the last 5-6 months. The IR illuminator as well as the custom mount would add to the value. The battery conversion is also a plus. The factory AA converters run around $40-50, so it doesn't add a ton of value. But it will make selling it easier as it takes a common battery type.

I can't say how much the illuminator would add. What type of range does it add to the scope? TNVC has an IR 'Torch' that can reach out to 400 yards. My Surefire 952V only lights up to 100-125 yards and it ran me $200. Where as I paid over $500 for my GCP-2B, but it can light something up at around 1000 yards away.

 

[rbeckwith]

Re: .Military PVS-4

The IR light is very intense, and since it has the reostat it can be adjusted to the higher settings for longer shots. The longest kill shot we took here is Ohio was around 250 yards...but I would guess one could shoot out to 400 yards with this set up without a problem...but that would be about it.

 

[MrLebowski]

Re: .Military PVS-4

I'v got a question for you guys.

I'm looking at buying a PVS-4 with a Gen2 tube.
At some point down the road I see my self upgrading it to either gen2+ or Gen3.
When I choose to do this will any Gen2+ or Gen3 tube work in the PVS4 or do I need a certain type of tube for it?

 

[yellowcarbon]

Re: .Military PVS-4

The gen 3 tube for the PVS-4 is platform specific (for the most part) and run about $1500 for just the tube. The gen 3 tubes aren't real easy to find, which is what makes them expensive. They just weren't made in the numbers that the gen 2 units were.

You can't just get any gen 3 tube and put it in the PVS-4 body. There are a few off-shoot monoculars the use PVS-4 parts, but they are fairly rare and usually have a gen 2 tube in it as well. The PVS-4 uses a 25mm tube where the newer gen 3 units (like the PVS-7 & PVS-14) typically use a 18mm tube. They also have different connection points for the power supply. They are basically 1 generation apart from each other and not interchangable without having to really work them over.

With that said, the PVS-4 performs very well for a gen 2 unit because of the huge front lens. It really gathers light which makes the most out of the gen 2 tube. It is what makes it big and heavy. From what I understand, you don't get a huge performance boost with the gen 3 tubes in the PVS-4 scope. While it will be better than a gen 2 scope, it won't be like getting a current PVS-14 gen 3 unit.

The best bang for the buck with the PVS-4 is a gen 2 unit with an add on IR illuminator like in the picture above. When I used a high power IR illuminator (GCP-2B) with my PVS-4 scope, it extended the effective range by 2x to 3x and really brought out the performance in low light conditions (no moon or in the shadows). Without the IR illuminator, I could safely see out to 200-250 yards and ID something. With the IR, I would see 600-700 yards and be able to IR something.

 

[MrLebowski]

Re: .Military PVS-4

Thanks for the enlightment there.

I hunt from the loft of a barn that over looks a 160acre field, were elevated 30-35' but our shooting lanes are limited.
We moslty hunt for coyotes in the fall/winter, I was thinking about a new dedicated NV scope, like a D760 or Raptor, then a PVS-14 and most reciently about the PVS-4.
I'm talking with someone right now about buying their PVS4 but he doesn't know how many hours are on the tube, he bought it used so I don't know if it's worth it.
How many hours are the Gen2 tubes rated for?

Thanks

 

[yellowcarbon]

Re: .Military PVS-4

If I remember correctly, the PVS-4 gen 2 (and most mil-spec gen 2 units) have a service life of roughly 2500 hours. That is a pretty long time to use it, which equal 312 days of running it 8 hours a night. Since it is a magnified rifle scope and not a helmet mounted monocular, it's use will usually only be in short burst. Even hunting, I bet they don't get used more than 2 hours a night. It isn't like you use it to walk around out in the fields. You only use it to scan a field and take a shot. It is big and heavy, so people don't hold them up for hours on end. So it it gets used for 2.5 hours a night, that is still 1000 nights of use. A long, long time. The majority of NV get used alot when you first get it then it sits.

The service life is also depending on the type of use. A tube that is turned on and left in zero light conditions will still be good to go at 2500 hours. A tube with 500 hours will be beat up if it gets exposed regularly to bright lights by somebody that doesn't care about it. Most privately owned NV is pretty well taken care of because of the expense of getting it.

The PVS-4 are very tough units and have a long service life. It has a brightness cutoff feature, so they can take alot before being damaged. That isn't to say you can't hurt them, but they are tough. But they are very durable units and I wouldn't hessitate to get a used one. Make sure you have a 3-day to week inspection period and test it out. If there isn't any obvious problems up front, it is most likely good to go. If it does develope a problem down the road, they can be repaired. I regularly see gen 2 up for sale on Ebay starting at $300 for used and $600 for a NIW tube.

 

[rbeckwith]

Re: .Military PVS-4

All of the PVS-4's that you find will not have an hour meter on the tube, so there is no real way to know how many hours they have been in operation. I have had several people ask me about the number of hours, and I am wondering how in the world anyone can give you a precise hour count. The PVS 4 was in use by the US Military as far back as the tail end of the Vietnam war, so they could be upwards of 40 years old. You want to to make sure that the one that you purchase is Mil-Spec and not one that was made after the Military contract was up. Those units are not as high of quality because they were often made from spare parts and not built to the strict Military specifications.

 

[rbeckwith]

Re: .Military PVS-4

Mr. Lebowski, or "The Dude" as I will call you from here on out...we always used a handheld PVS-4 "viewer" when hunting with this set up to locate our targets. The rifle mounted scope sat idle until a target was identified using the hand helds and then the rifle was moved in to place for the shot. I cannot tell you how many hours are on it exactly...but I would say that it has lots of life left as it was used very little.

Once I have my 100 posts, I will be listing this for sale on the Hide. I have it for sale locally, so assuming it does not sell before I hit 100 you are more than welcome to make me an offer. I will also be selling the hand held viewers as well.

 

[rbeckwith]

Re: .Military PVS-4

Reticle is an "Aim Point Crosshair"...so it looks like a floating plus sign with the very center intersection gone and a dot where the intersection of the crosshair would be.

 

[GBMaryland]

Re: .Military PVS-4

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: yellowcarbon</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
With that said, the PVS-4 performs very well for a gen 2 unit because of the huge front lens. It really gathers light which makes the most out of the gen 2 tube. It is what makes it big and heavy. From what I understand, you don't get a huge performance boost with the gen 3 tubes in the PVS-4 scope. While it will be better than a gen 2 scope, it won't be like getting a current PVS-14 gen 3 unit. </div></div>

I'm going to have to disagree there. I just picked up a PVS-24... which is not a bad unit overall. So I have a high quality verison to compare to the two 25mm Gen III MX-11620 based PVS/TVS systems I did own. (Just sold the PVS-4 on EBay for about $2800.00..., still have the monster TVS-5... we'll see If I sell it.)

The Gen III tube in the PVS-4 and the TVS-5 make a HUGE difference. No kidding. I have a flawless Gen II tube that I got from STANO and I used it very briefly in the PVS-4 it came with and the TVS-5 I picked up.

Without increasing the brightness (gain), the 25mm Gen III tube is exceptionally clear. They also deal with bright light fairly well, but not as well as the newer autogated or Pinnicle tubes do.

...but there is no comparison. The 25mm Gen II vs 25mm Gen III tubes are worlds apart. You NEED an illuminator if you are not using a TVS-5 and it's dark - dark. With a Gen III, you pretty much don't unless there is absolutely NO light...

Take a look at my crappy picutres... those where taken with a TVS-5, Gen III, and near black conditions (I couldn't see past 10 feet):

http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Main=234589&Number=2993877

I will tell you that the green light the TVS/PVS Gen III puts out seems a little more stressful to your eyesight. The pictures catch the tone of the green, but are not color accurate.

The PVS-4 looks GREAT with a GEN III tube and significantly darker with Gen II.

I tried all sorts of testing... cloudy, full moon, starlight, etc.

I used a TVS-5 Gen III to see 4 of the moons of Jupiter... the GEN II unit barely could pick them up. The GEN III unit was bright enough without gain to wreck my night vision.

 

[GBMaryland]

Re: .Military PVS-4

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rbeckwith</div><div class="ubbcode-body">All of the PVS-4's that you find will not have an hour meter on the tube, so there is no real way to know how many hours they have been in operation. I have had several people ask me about the number of hours, and I am wondering how in the world anyone can give you a precise hour count. The PVS 4 was in use by the US Military as far back as the tail end of the Vietnam war, so they could be upwards of 40 years old. You want to to make sure that the one that you purchase is Mil-Spec and not one that was made after the Military contract was up. Those units are not as high of quality because they were often made from spare parts and not built to the strict Military specifications. </div></div>

Yeah, many of the tubes were sold as surplus, or when the military failed to continue to purchase them (leaving Litton with extra tubes). There are also B tubes, or tubes that didn't pass military specs.

I recently learned that ALL used tubes comes with a spec sheet. The PVS-24 I picked up has one, and the MX-11620 tubes I picked up should have as well.

One of the tubes (MX-11620) was perfectly flawless to the eye, the other had slight shading in the lower right of zone 3. That was only noticable once I used the 3 inch viewing optic on the TVS-5, and you really have to look for it with the gain pumped up.

Ideally, you want to find a tube that was purchased by a surplus company off a defunt military contract. However, you'll pay more, but it's worth it.

It's interesting: I've heard quite a few times that no two tubes are the same and that there is a lot of variation... and it seems to be true.