Rifle Scopes Millet TRS-1/Falcon 4-14FFP/WO 4-14 Gen2?

C

ClosetCaseNerd

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Mar 2, 2009
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#1
My heads going to explode..

Okay, so long story short I have a few AR's that I wouldn't mind sticking a magnified optic on, as well as (don't laugh now) a CZ452 I recently acquired. Because of the price range of this optic purchase the 452 will probably be the permanent resting place of this scope. What does this mean? This means I need a scope with short parallax adjustment (15m +- to infinity)

I have zero experience with scopes and precision long range shooting, I know nada about using mils to range and use appropriate hold over under ect (though the concept makes enough sense). My intention really is a cheap-ish scope that I can use as an introduction to this until I buy a real stick, real glass, and real instruction! I can kill two birds with one stone as incidentally this CZ I bought needs an optic.

I'd like my cake and eat it too, I'd love for a same reticule/adjustment scope w/ FFP reticule but it seems such things break the bank (imagine that). A SFP scope seems a bit strange as to really use the reticule you about lose the ability to adjust magnification (ie, you must be using the appropriate magnification to "call your own shots").

So my research has yielded thus far:

Millet TRS-1 4-16 '09 model:
Reticule and Turrets in mils
Zero Stop
SFP, Reticule accurate @ 10x

Falcon 4-14 FFP:
First focal plane reticule
MOA/CM adjustments w/ Mil reticule

Wonder Optics 4-14 Gen2:
MOA/MOA reticule and adjustments
SFP, Reticule is accurate @ 10x

Thanks for any help you guys can offer...
 
#2
Re: Millet TRS-1/Falcon 4-14FFP/WO 4-14 Gen2?

I don't know the short end parallax correction of the Falcons, but the 4-14FFP is about the only mil/mil FFP I know of in the price range.
Don't talk down about your 452 Varmint they're great rifles. My 452V wears a 16X MK4........
 
#5
Re: Millet TRS-1/Falcon 4-14FFP/WO 4-14 Gen2?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sobrbiker883</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I don't know the short end parallax correction of the Falcons, but the 4-14FFP is about the only mil/mil FFP I know of in the price range.
Don't talk down about your 452 Varmint they're great rifles. My 452V wears a 16X MK4........ </div></div>

Incorrect, the Falcon is Mil/MOA or Mil/Metric.

I do appreciate your advice, and I'm sure the 452 will shoot fine, I just want to keep prices reasonable. Also, this will be my first variable magnified optic (only red dot sights and ACOG's previous) I'd like a bit of a do-it-all optic for the AR's until I can buy something truely nice and get into real-deal precision shooting
wink.gif
 
#6
Re: Millet TRS-1/Falcon 4-14FFP/WO 4-14 Gen2?

Be careful about that "metric" crap. Lindy will be in here in a second.

This would be my suggestion:

http://www.rwsnydergunsmithing.com/secure-rwsnydergunsmithing/Scripts/prodView.asp?idproduct=45

I have about 1K of .308 on a MOA Falcon 4-14x44FFP right now. It's a solid optic. It will focus down to 10m or so. I can get it clear enough to use for dry fire inside my house on lower magnifications. I just got done dragging it through the weeds on a sniper match and bouncing it across the country courtesy of AA Baggage Monkeys.

The Falcon is the best combination of features for the money.
 
#7
Re: Millet TRS-1/Falcon 4-14FFP/WO 4-14 Gen2?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ClosetCaseNerd</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Incorrect, the Falcon is Mil/MOA or Mil/Metric.
</div></div>

Back to my point of suggesting read the optics faq. <span style="font-weight: bold">mil/metric (1cm at 100m=1/10mil) is mil/mil</span>. But thanks for trying to correct someone who has experience with your poor comprehension of marketing material.

Either take the advice you asked for or go back to aimpoints.
 
#9
Re: Millet TRS-1/Falcon 4-14FFP/WO 4-14 Gen2?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sobrbiker883</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ClosetCaseNerd</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Incorrect, the Falcon is Mil/MOA or Mil/Metric.
</div></div>

Back to my point of suggesting read the optics faq. <span style="font-weight: bold">mil/metric (1cm at 100m=1/10mil) is mil/mil</span>. But thanks for trying to correct someone who has experience with your poor comprehension of marketing material.

Either take the advice you asked for or go back to aimpoints. </div></div>

If I'm confused I apologize but I read many of Lindy's posts previous to your link, read the optics FAQ, and read 20-30+ threads previous to posting my question

Further, one of the things I took away from those threads was that Mil is an angle of measurement and independent of distance, where as centimeters are an measurement of distance and thus the numbers of centimeters I need to dial into the scope via the turrets is not what I am in fact seeing on my reticule. 2 mils on my reticule does not mean 2 cm on the turrets at 671.1 yards (for example). The advantage of running metric with a mil reticule is that the numbers are easier to crunch.

I thought this was the very point of Lindy's posts.
 
#10
Re: Millet TRS-1/Falcon 4-14FFP/WO 4-14 Gen2?

The turret doesn't care what distance you are shooting at either. Both will be angular measurements. Do you agree 0.1mrad at 100m covers 1cm? Then a proper mil/mil scope will have the reticle match the turret. I think maybe i'm not fully understanding what you are saying.
 
#11
Re: Millet TRS-1/Falcon 4-14FFP/WO 4-14 Gen2?

as Z said, on ANY scope the turret adjustments are not a "distance" they are an angular measure independent of range.

A Mil scope is not metric. 1 Mrad is 1m at 1000m or 1 yard at 1000 yards. Kind of neat huh? So on a 100 yard range you just have to remember that 1 Mrad is 3.6".

The turret on the Falcon may be marked in CM, but it just as easily could have been marked in yards.
 
#12
Re: Millet TRS-1/Falcon 4-14FFP/WO 4-14 Gen2?

Mil is a Mil. It's an angular mesurement that needs no conversion, as is the case with Mil/MOA systems, and why so many prefer it (its faster, less likey to make a mathmatical error).

You lack an understanding of how range finding rets work. SUggest yo "do your homework" first then try to come argue your point.
 
#13
Re: Millet TRS-1/Falcon 4-14FFP/WO 4-14 Gen2?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LoneWolfUSMC</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
The turret on the Falcon may be marked in CM, but it just as easily could have been marked in yards. </div></div>

<span style="font-weight: bold">.01yd</span>
That's how they should mark .1 mil turrets to really mess with people's heads!
 
#14
Re: Millet TRS-1/Falcon 4-14FFP/WO 4-14 Gen2?

You guys are just confusing me when I thought I knew what the mil/moa's stood for.

1 click = 1cm at 100 meters. Since the falcon has FFP, at also means that at whatever range I'm shooting at, 10 clicks will get me from one mildot to another. Is that the gist of it?
 
#15
Re: Millet TRS-1/Falcon 4-14FFP/WO 4-14 Gen2?

1cm at 100 meters is how they mark a lot of .1 mil turrets.
It is really .1mil, so yes, with a FFP scope with a mil reticle, 10 clicks will move 1 mil regardless of range.
With a SFP scope, a .1mil turret will still move the point of impact 1 mil per 10 clicks, but the reticle only subtends properly at one point on the power setting.
 
#16
Re: Millet TRS-1/Falcon 4-14FFP/WO 4-14 Gen2?

I think this is our disconnect:

I was looking at Falcon optics through this link: http://www.sightwonders.com

They state the turrets in MOA or "Metric" instead of the usual wording of "Mils or MRADs"

Looking at Falcon's sight they don't offer a model in Mils/Metric so I think that sightwonder's wording is what made me believe that the turrets adjusted in literal cm and not mils. I understand what your saying now! Just a mental disconnect as what they had for options led me a bit astray, I didn't realize scope manufactures stated it that way (even though Falcon's site doesn't, wonder optics does)
 
#18
Re: Millet TRS-1/Falcon 4-14FFP/WO 4-14 Gen2?

its is common for mfr's to make it confusing by calling turrets 1/4" or 1cm when they are ALL angular units of measure. 1/4" usually means "shooter's MOA" rather than true moa, but 1cm means 1cm at 100m which is .1mil at any distance.

It is always best once scope is on rifle to verify what your turrets are doing on paper in any case, same with one's reticle.
Log what they actually are and adjust accordingly.
 
#19
Re: Millet TRS-1/Falcon 4-14FFP/WO 4-14 Gen2?

I ended up ordering the Falcon from wonder optics since they seem to have a good rep (and great service from what i observed) and the Falcon is the only optic that has everything I was looking for.

Thanks guys. I was about to pass it up for a Millet due to thinking it was not Mil knobs.
 
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