Rifle Scopes MINOX ZP5 5-25 Reticle Choice: MR2 or MR4

[etale]

After many months of research I have decided to equip my 7mm rem mag precision hunting rifle with a Minox ZP5 5-25. I'm torn between the MR2 and MR4 reticles (see link).
Both look like great designs. I hunt primarily in Arizona, mostly deer and Elk, so longer range shots are pretty common. Of course, the scope will also be used for off-season
practice on steel targets from 400 to 1100 yards.

In weighing the reticle options of the Minox, it seems to me that there are some possible advantages of each design apropos of my intended usage:

MR2 Advantages:
* 0.5 mil and 0.2 hash marks (the MR4 only has 0.2 marks)
* More precise aiming (central crosshairs are 0.029 mil thick, resulting in a "aiming square" with 0.029 mil side-length vs a 0.05 mil diameter aiming dot of the MR4)
* Possibly more useable on lower magnification (mil hash marks are 0.6 high, rather than the 0.4 of the MR4)
* Stadiametric rangefinding (I'll admit I don't really care about this as I always use a rangefinder)

MR4 Advantages:
* Has hash marks for 0.2, 0.4, 0.6, etc. mil left and right of central aiming dot. The MR2 really only allows windage holds at 0.5, 0.6, 0.8 etc. left and right of central crosshairs.
* Central aiming dot (I have never used one, but it sounds like this is well-liked in the Kahles line, for example)
* Fully illuminated (MR2 only has central crosshair illuminated).
* Slightly more "open" top half
* "Christmas Tree" holds. (I'll admit that I don't care about this. I always dial elevation and hold wind, so would never use the christmas tree markings).

I am hoping to hear some opinions from those of you that have used the Minox with one of these reticles: what do you like/ dislike about the MR2 or MR4, especially
in comparison to each other? If you own the Minox with one of these reticles, what were the deciding factors in your choice?

Thanks in advance for your feedback!

 

[Threadcutter308]

Of the two, It seems like the MR2 would be the better choice for hunting. It is less cluttered below the horizon than the MR4, so glassing long distances would be better with the MR2. MR2's may be a bit easier/faster to take delivery of too. You probably have already seen Minox's Reticle webpage, but here it is again anyway;

http://www.minox.com/index.php?id=zp_tac_reticles&L=2

I presently own an MR5 and have two MR4's on order. I'm going to be target shooting exclusively/no hunting and the MR4 is more to my liking. I'd prefer to not dial windage, so in that regard, the MR4 is a better choice for me.
If you haven't already looked through a ZP5, they are magnificent. Get a hold of Mike/Rich @ CS Tactical, they'll take good care of you.

 

[canezach]

I have the MR4. It's a fantastic reticle for its intended purpose. I shoot it in matches, where the reticle is really useful in follow up shots and holdovers. If it were just going to be used for hunting, I'd go with something else for my reticle.

 

[ICU22250]

Of the two, It seems like the MR2 would be the better choice for hunting. It is less cluttered below the horizon than the MR4, so glassing long distances would be better with the MR2. MR2's may be a bit easier/faster to take delivery of too. You probably have already seen Minox's Reticle webpage, but here it is again anyway;

http://www.minox.com/index.php?id=zp_tac_reticles&L=2

I presently own an MR5 and have two MR4's on order. I'm going to be target shooting exclusively/no hunting and the MR4 is more to my liking. I'd prefer to not dial windage, so in that regard, the MR4 is a better choice for me.
If you haven't already looked through a ZP5, they are magnificent. Get a hold of Mike/Rich @ CS Tactical, they'll take good care of you.

Have they fixed that problem they had as the elevation knob goes from the first to the second revolution? It was a hard spot and caused a little bit of reticle shift.. I am interested in one of these in the MR4 reticle if they have indeed corrected the issue...

 

[Threadcutter308]

It is my understanding that they have "fixed" it. It is also my understanding that the "hard spot" was intentionally put in on the first releases of the ZP5 line. So, in order to "fix" it, they have omitted it from subsequent generations (however many or few that might be....). my MR5 has it, I expect that the 2 new MR4's won't have it. I think I also saw somewhere that the reason the "hard spot" was put in was to satisfy the North American market and that the hard spot was not present for European scopes. Apparently, the Europeans didn't ask for it, or want it. Personally, I don't care if it's there or not. I don't view the presence or absence of the "hard spot" as a deficiency. My shooting at distances where I'd go beyond the "hard spot" are pretty limited.

It really is the IQ and total lack of CA that this scope is all about. It is just stunning.

 

[ICU22250]

That's great that they are removing the "hard spot" because it's not needed anyway... I just seen killswitchengage's review and the "hard spot" caused some reticle shift.. I agree about probably not needing the second Rev, just didnt like the whole shift in the reticle whether it be going into the second Rev or not.. I am still very interested in the Minox and would love to get a look through the glass.. when comparing the turret feel, what other manufacturer would you say the Minox resembles the closest?

 

[etale]

Thank you Threadcutter308 and canezach for your feedback and thoughts on reticle choice. Just to clarify, I only very rarely dial windage (preferring to hold), but always dial elevation.
Unless I am missing something, the X-mas tree style reticles (like MR4) are useful primarily for situations in which one dials *neither* elevation nor windage, for example for quick (follow-up)
shots. To my eyes, the MR4 seems to have a more "open" top half, which may be advantageous in a hunting situation, but I like the 0.2/ 0.5 mil windage holds available in the MR2
vs the 0.2 holds (only) in the MR4. I also like the slightly finer aiming crosshair of the MR2 (crosshairs are 0.029 mil thick) vs the 0.05 mil diameter aiming dot of the MR4. Both seem like capable and fine reticles.... choices are so hard! If anyone else has thoughts or feedback on either reticle, I am eager to hear your opinions! I realize that the ZP5 is a big, heavy optic for hunting, but out here in the mountains of the (south) western US, where 500+ yard shots on game are common, great glass is worth its weight in gold. Thanks again!

 

[canezach]

The ZP5 I bought last year did not have the "hard spot" going into the second rev. It does have some slight resistance going into the second rev, but it is probably because I don't dial that much elevation frequently. The first rev gets me out to 1400 yards with most of my 6.5 Creedmoor loads, so around 99.9% of my shooting is done within that distance

 

[D_TROS]

I was able to look through one of these last weekend and I was really impressed with the MR4 rect. The tree wasn't too cluttering, the top was open for scanning, and also once you see how cool shooting matches are, you will be using it more for matches than hunting. This may be my new favorite rect...

Regards,
DT

 

[pineoak]

tag

 

[Threadcutter308]

I received my ZP5 MR4's from CS Tactical on Tuesday. Thanks Mike and Rich, greatly appreciated !

They are brand new and do have some resistance going from first to second turn on the elevation knob. It is far less than the "bump" on my MR5, which is of an earlier generation. Same stunning glass all the way around.

 

[scudzuki]

I have both reticles.
If the Christmas Tree in the FOV is a problem for you, get the MR2. It's got the .2 mil hashes and I find it to be pretty easy to use.
Otherwise get the MR4. The floating center dot is better target shooting as it provides a really small aiming point and the entire reticle is illuminated which could come in handy and has no downside that I'm aware of. It also has the .2 mil hashes AND it's got the Christmas Tree if you decide to hold your corrections in both axes.

My older ZP5 came back from Germany with the same big 2nd turn "bump" in the elevation turret (which I asked to be reduced) but the clicks are fantastic, even better than the elevation turret in my newer ZP5 (which has a lighter "bump"). After a 3 month turnaround time I'm just going to live with it, which will be easy since the only time I get near the 2nd turn is when I'm demonstrating the "bump" to someone.

 

[Delicatessen]

I don't own one yet but this is currently my front runner for a high end scope purchase within the next few months. I will probably go mr4 as I primarily target shoot but for hunting I would go MR2.

 

[glock24]

I run the MR2 here. It's for an ELD rig in 7mmRM.

I think the reticle is very, very thin. It's practically unusable below 12x. 15x is about the lower limit depending on the target conditions. I don't mind because I run 25x all day long, but just know the reticle may be an issue if you like to run lower powers

Goddamn it's nice glass . . . .

 

[Cartman]

Why no MR5 love?

 

[etale]

Many thanks to all for the feedback and discussion here!
Just as a personal response to:

Why no MR5 love?

The MR5 is a 0.5-mil based reticle, so only has hash-marks in 0.5 mil increments.
Since I almost always hold for wind, I much prefer having very precise windage holds,
especially since in a hunting application I am aiming to hit a 6" diameter circle,
often at range across a canyon or draw, where winds can be strong and variable.

 

[Cartman]

So glad I asked. Just glancing at them without studying the PDF details I thought they were the same other than illumination. Doh!

 

[hk dave]

Why no MR5 love?

I run an mr5 and absolutely love it. I often hear folks talk about preferring .2 mil hashes over .5 but I've never found .5 to handicap me. I simply just hold in between and voila! Pretty much .2 mil hashes.

it is an absolutely awesome reticle.

minox has got the reticle thing down!

 

[Cartman]

I run an mr5 and absolutely love it. I often hear folks talk about preferring .2 mil hashes over .5 but I've never found .5 to handicap me. I simply just hold in between and voila! Pretty much .2 mil hashes.

it is an absolutely awesome reticle.

minox has got the reticle thing down!

Dave, you're being a little wishy-washy here -- should I put you down as a Minox supporter? Have you a sense of how tracking is? It's hard not to get the impression the ZP5 is the new IT girl around here. About the only thing I would want differently -- on paper, as I haven't held one -- is a pop-up on the top of the turret when entering the second revolution (instead of the heavy section). Probably going to send a cheque next week and try the Kool-Aid. But still waiting for the chink in the armour to be discovered.

 

[Delicatessen]

There isn't a pop up but there is a window that shows the rev your in just to the side. Have only seen not touched...looks like a white dot not tactile but really visible.

not my video but shows what I mean:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hivpoCHqCWM

 

[hk dave]

Dave, you're being a little wishy-washy here -- should I put you down as a Minox supporter? Have you a sense of how tracking is? It's hard not to get the impression the ZP5 is the new IT girl around here. About the only thing I would want differently -- on paper, as I haven't held one -- is a pop-up on the top of the turret when entering the second revolution (instead of the heavy section). Probably going to send a cheque next week and try the Koop-Aid. But still waiting for the chink in the armour to be discovered.

Drink it! You're gonna like it!

 

[Cartman]

There isn't a pop up but there is a window that shows the rev your in just to the side. Have only seen not touched...looks like a white dot not tactile but really visible.

not my video but shows what I mean:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hivpoCHqCWM

Knew about that one. Just would make an indicator you could feel without looking if I were scope king for a day. Of course I would also have an internal level indicator as well. But I'm a king without a crown.

 

[Cartman]

Okay Dave. I don't know what this Koop-Aid my I phone's autocorrect is talking about is, but I'm going to try it. Probably tastes like chickens. It may take a few weeks to get in. But I'm a gonna try it.

 

[Daniel33]

For shooting targets, the MR4 is super