MK12 mod 0 or mod1? your take....

11B-B4

11B-B4

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Feb 1, 2009
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#1
Looking to buy/build one of these... I realize my opinions on them are different from yours. But I would love you to contribute your insight if you dont mind.

Mod 0

Cons~
Heavier than the mod 1
Higher cheek weld due to the swan sleeve

Pros~
More rigid I think than the Knights FF rail
To me it looks better but thats personal preference

MoD 1

Pros~

Lower Cheek weld better for stocks without adj comb.
Lighter weight up front than the mod0

Cons~

wet noodle of a FF rail
Dont like the looks as much



What do you guys think are the pro's and cons of each?... ive gotten my hands on both in country right now and have been shooting both and they shoot the same...I def want one when i get home but i cant decide. Also id be putting a Crane stock on either one so its not going to be a replica. Im not concerned about replicating the rifle.

-E
 
#2
Re: MK12 mod 0 or mod1? your take....

I'd say go with the Mod 1.
I know you said you think it doesn't look as good but it is just made to be an improvement of the mod 0. The rail on the Mod 1 is more versatile as well. I don't own either but I have shot both and I didn't think the KAC rail/parts were "wet noodle" at all --quite the opposite. Just my .02
Good luck
-King
 
#4
Re: MK12 mod 0 or mod1? your take....

I went with the Mod 0 rail just because it was the original.

I have thought about switching to a conventional quad rail, but I like my setup for now. I think if I did go to a quad rail I would not choose the Knights or a LaRue. I would want one that the quad rail extended flush to the upper, such as the DD Omega or DD Lite. I say this because of needing proper eye relief on the scope.

There are also things on my rifle that I did differently than Uncle Sam. I am not sure if you are going to build it to spec, but I decided to make a few changes. Here is a list of my setup:

STAG Upper
STAG Lower
STAG bolt
PRI rail w/ Swan Sleeve
Noveske SPR barrel
Ops Inc. Break
VLTOR EMOD stock
RR Two-Stage Trigger
LaRue SPR Mount
MIAD Grip
20 rnd PMAGs
Harris bipod w/ podlock

(Sorry I haven't snapped any pics yet)

I am still deciding on a good scope (I have a cheap one for now), but it does shoot very well (Thanks Joey for letting me borrow the Mark 4).

I would say your biggest concern about your build should be the barrel. It took me a few months before I made the decision. I would either go Noveske or Krieger by Compass Lake, but that's me...
 
#5
Re: MK12 mod 0 or mod1? your take....

I like the look of the MOD 1 better. I like the Knights rail. I use Knights gear and in no way, if installed properly is it loose fitting or feeling. My 2 pennies.
 
#6
Re: MK12 mod 0 or mod1? your take....

hmm interesting that you guys are not feeling the flex that i am in the KAC FF rail... Thats my biggest complaint is that it just doesnt feel solid like the Mod0 rail. Maybe its just in my mind, idk.

Hightechtactical:

How well is your Noveske barrel shooting? The mk's ive shot are around an Moa with 262...
 
#7
Re: MK12 mod 0 or mod1? your take....

I sold my Mod 0 and now have a Mod1. I'm using a LaRue rail and it's very solid. I'm also using a LaRue SPR mount, you're eye relief solution, no need to go with a monolitic look.

If you're going to use a Larue scope mount on a Mod0, get the SPR-S as it sits a little lower to compensate for the added height of the PEQ rail.
 
#9
Re: MK12 mod 0 or mod1? your take....

I have a larue rail at home that i won at a comp... its a 9" though so i'm going to throw it on a dedicated 11.5" 22 SBR from spikes.

I'll have to give it a look though. Anyone have any experience with the Newish KAC URX? On completely different note I suppose i could delineate completely from the MK series and use a Vltor VIS or LMT MRP, from an engineering standpoint they are probably the most rigid rail systems out there I suppose.

Originally i was going to do a mini spr type with a mid length rail and a 16" barrel, Ive heard this reffered to as a "Recce" type rifle... But what dissuaded me was that It wouldn't be as quiet or as smooth as the 18" rifle length gas system.

Does anyone have any DB reduction numbers on these setups?... 18" Rifle gas w/ ops 12th Vs. 16" Middy gas w/ ops 12th. That would be interesting. I would be using a PRI gas buster and RRB with either.
I suppose there are probably only a couple people in the nation that might have gathered that data.
 
#10
Re: MK12 mod 0 or mod1? your take....

I have both and here is my take...

The MOD 0 is more aesthetically pleasing IMO, MOD 1 is lighter...not much more than that between the two.

Parts I used for both rifles:

MK12 MOD 0 SPR
-LMT Defender 2000 lower
-Timney trigger
-KNS anti-roll pins
-A2 buttstock
-PRI M84 gas buster ch
-Colt upper
-PRI FF tube
-PRI folding fs/gas block
-WOA special contour SPR barrel
-ARMS PEQ2/3 rail
-ARMS bipod mount
-ARMS 40 BUIS
-ARMS 22 QD rings
-ARMS 22 ring cap rail
-Ops Inc collar/break
-LMT FA bcg
-Loopy M3 MD
-HBRMS 6-9
-Ops Inc 12th MBS suppressor

MK12 MOD1 SPR
-Noveske N4 lower
-KAC 2 stage trigger
-SOPMOD stock
-KNS anti-roll pins
-LMT FA bcg
-YHM upper
-WOA special contour SPR barrel
-KAC 600m BUIS
-KAC front flip sight
-KAC bipod mount
-KAC FF RAS
-YHM low pro gas block
-Ops Inc collar/break
-PRI M84 gas buster ch
-ARMS 22 rings
-ARMS 22 ring cap rail
-Loopy M3 TMR
-HBRMS 6-9
-Ops Inc 12th MBS suppressor
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 11B-B4</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Originally i was going to do a mini spr type with a mid length rail and a 16" barrel, Ive heard this reffered to as a "Recce" type rifle... But what dissuaded me was that It wouldn't be as quiet or as smooth as the 18" rifle length gas system.</div></div>
I really like my Recce I built too and that may be an option you may want to persue vs the MK12 SPR

Parts I used for my Recce
-Noveske N4 lower
-YHM upper
-Geissele HS match trigger
-KAC M110 SASS buttstock
-DD light 12.0 RAS
-Douglas barrel
-VLTOR low pro gas block
-Ops Inc break/collar
-KAC 300m BUIS
-Troy front sight
-KAC bipod mount
-HBRMS 6-9
-Nightforce unimount
-Nightforce 2.5-10x24 ill. md scope
-Cerekoted FDE
-LMT FA bcg
-PRI M84 gas buster ch
-Ops Inc 12th MBS suppresor
 
#11
Re: MK12 mod 0 or mod1? your take....

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: doorkicker</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 11B-B4</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Originally i was going to do a mini spr type with a mid length rail and a 16" barrel, Ive heard this reffered to as a "Recce" type rifle... But what dissuaded me was that It wouldn't be as quiet or as smooth as the 18" rifle length gas system.</div></div>
I really like my Recce I built too and that may be an option you may want to persue vs the MK12 SPR

Parts I used for my Recce
-Noveske N4 lower
-YHM upper
-Geissele HS match trigger
-KAC M110 SASS buttstock
-DD light 12.0 RAS
-Douglas barrel
-VLTOR low pro gas block
-Ops Inc break/collar
-KAC 300m BUIS
-Troy front sight
-KAC bipod mount
-HBRMS 6-9
-Nightforce unimount
-Nightforce 2.5-10x24 ill. md scope
-Cerekoted FDE
-LMT FA bcg
-PRI M84 gas buster ch
-Ops Inc 12th MBS suppresor
</div></div>

Do you have pics of your Recce type rifle??? I dont think ive ever seen an ops 12th on a 16" barrel. I would be very interested.
 
#12
Re: MK12 mod 0 or mod1? your take....

Here it is prior to the FDE Cerekote:
IMG_1643.jpg

IMG_1638.jpg


Here it is after I had the upper/lower/RAS Cerekoted and the barrel/break & collar/gas block diamondcoated with QPQ. I don't have the Ops collar on it in the photo because it was still being machined for a tighter fit. The flash kinda killed the good color, but it's pretty close to the grip and buttstock.
IMG_1690.jpg

.
 
#14
Re: MK12 mod 0 or mod1? your take....

I went with the Mod 1. My rifle isn't an exact replica, but the upper is pretty close including a Douglas barrel from the same folks that did them for Crane. Hopefully, my dealer will get the Ops Inc can in this week so I can submit my Form 4 to finish this project off.

743Q0592.jpg
 
#16
Re: MK12 mod 0 or mod1? your take....

Lots of good advice here already.

I have owned and shot both models a fair amount and think the Mod 0 looks cooler, but the Mod 1 is definitely lighter and has fewer parts (esp.screws/fasteners)--there's a reason they developed the Mod 1...

The Mod 1 KAC forend also has lots more real estate for mounting stuff. May not be a big deal, but I like to run all my ARs with a vertical foregrip and you can't do that with the Mod 0 PRI forend without getting special longer rails added.

For correct milspec builds, you occasionally see real Crane-built uppers come up FS on the boards (esp. Sturm and ARFcom). PRI even resold a few .mil-issued Mod 0 uppers they got back from a US SF Group last year. Otherwise, as noted above, Monty at Centurion build a great Mod 1 clone. Wes at MSTN and PRI (who helped develop the Mod 0) both make excellent Mod 0 clones, as do lots of other talented 'smiths.

My understanding is that Crane .mil SPRs all use Douglas barrels, but there are a lot of great barrel options out there these days...

YMMV.

K
 
#17
Re: MK12 mod 0 or mod1? your take....

11B-B4:

The Noveske I have shoots very well.

I made the mistake of trying to handload Berger 75 gr VLDs for it which was a disaster (not a good bullet for mag length rounds). I did come across a few boxes of Hornady Match only to find that my scope was casuing the gun to shoot bad (terrible parallax on a cheap scope).

I was able to use my buddy's Mark 4 for a few rounds and got a good ten shot group. The group had two fliers, but the rest of the group was in two ragged holes about a quarter inch apart. Minus the two fliers the group measured .76". Time will tell with the right handload.

If anyone has a good handload they use I would love to see your load and DOPE.

All in all the gun is a very fun gun to shoot. My only problem is that it is too easy to keep squeezing the trigger and the barrel heats up after about 10-12 rounds. I could spot my own shots at 600 yards very easily with the Ops Inc break. Shots at 1000 were a little spotty (I need better ammo). It was hard to see where the splash was in the dirt since the 5.56 is a small round.
 
#18
Re: MK12 mod 0 or mod1? your take....

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: HiTechTactical</div><div class="ubbcode-body">11B-B4:

The Noveske I have shoots very well.

I made the mistake of trying to handload Berger 75 gr VLDs for it which was a disaster (not a good bullet for mag length rounds). I did come across a few boxes of Hornady Match only to find that my scope was casuing the gun to shoot bad (terrible parallax on a cheap scope).

I was able to use my buddy's Mark 4 for a few rounds and got a good ten shot group. The group had two fliers, but the rest of the group was in two ragged holes about a quarter inch apart. Minus the two fliers the group measured .76". Time will tell with the right handload.

If anyone has a good handload they use I would love to see your load and DOPE.

All in all the gun is a very fun gun to shoot. My only problem is that it is too easy to keep squeezing the trigger and the barrel heats up after about 10-12 rounds. I could spot my own shots at 600 yards very easily with the Ops Inc break. Shots at 1000 were a little spotty (I need better ammo). It was hard to see where the splash was in the dirt since the 5.56 is a small round. </div></div>

Really I think 600-maybe 800 under the right conditions is the best you can ask for from these guns. Even SOTIC instructors I have shot with cant work miracles with the mk12... its a 600 yard gun. Plus the mk262 doesnt have good terminal balistics as it is, hitting someone at 600+ prbably wouldnt do much; granted we are mostly target shooting with these guns, myself included
 
#21
Re: MK12 mod 0 or mod1? your take....

I had 2 mk 12 mod 0 builds. Im like you, i loved the looks, but there is a reason there is a mod1.

The mod 0 was really too heavy for me and turnedme off a bit. I liked the gen 1 pri tube, but you cant find those anymore. If you take the upper apart with the swan sleave and prei tube, it is such a pain to put back.

I tell you I was very impressed with my latest DD lite rail on my lr308. It really seemed to lighten the rifle up and was very solid.

If I were to do it again, i would build with a DD rail and one piece kac or larue scope mount.
 
#22
Re: MK12 mod 0 or mod1? your take....

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: HiTechTactical</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Here is a good link from ARFCOM, careful it may take you more than one day to get through it....it is 54 pages long:

MK12 mod 0 and mod 1 pic / Discussion thread

AR15 is sometimes slow, here is the url: http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=118&t=294303&page=48
</div></div>

Ive been through that thread more than once. But thanks alot im sure there are others that could use the info as well.

From what I hear the 75's shoot very well. I was wondering about your 16" gun. Can you hear much difference between that and your 18" guns?

Im almost leaning towards the 16" Spr type rifle and ops 12th model. My main concern from dropping barrel length though is an increase in DB's. My guess would be a 2 inch loss in barrel would equate to 1-2~ DB increase in sound signature. What are your thoughts? Is the difference in sound report very noticeable?
 
#23
Re: MK12 mod 0 or mod1? your take....

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Kevin_Deaton</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I went with the Mod 1. My rifle isn't an exact replica, but the upper is pretty close including a Douglas barrel from the same folks that did them for Crane. Hopefully, my dealer will get the Ops Inc can in this week so I can submit my Form 4 to finish this project off. </div></div>

I like your rifle very nice; as well as your desktop background. Is that an M6? I love Bmw's looking to buy another as soon as i get back from country... If the wife approves of course.
frown.gif
 
#24
Re: MK12 mod 0 or mod1? your take....

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 11B-B4</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Im almost leaning towards the 16" Spr type rifle and ops 12th model. My main concern from dropping barrel length though is an increase in DB's. My guess would be a 2 inch loss in barrel would equate to 1-2~ DB increase in sound signature. What are your thoughts? Is the difference in sound report very noticeable? </div></div>
No noticeable difference IMO.
 
#27
Re: MK12 mod 0 or mod1? your take....

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 11B-B4</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I like your rifle very nice; as well as your desktop background. Is that an M6? I love Bmw's looking to buy another as soon as i get back from country... If the wife approves of course.
frown.gif
</div></div>

The car on my desktop is an E92 M3 race car. I recently sold my Lexus IS-F with hopes of buying an E90 M3 sedan in the near future.
 
#28
Re: MK12 mod 0 or mod1? your take....

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Kevin_Deaton</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 11B-B4</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I like your rifle very nice; as well as your desktop background. Is that an M6? I love Bmw's looking to buy another as soon as i get back from country... If the wife approves of course.
frown.gif
</div></div>

The car on my desktop is an E92 M3 race car. I recently sold my Lexus IS-F with hopes of buying an E90 M3 sedan in the near future. </div></div>

Ahh.. the widebody was confusing me. The IS-F is a nice car but according to the car gurus it doesnt come close to the overall performance of the e90 m3. They can be picked up slightly used now for around 50k Not too bad. Im looking at getting Either a 95 e36 m3 or an e46 m3. The e92 is too rich for my blood. Id honestly rather have the e36 but only if i can find one with low miles. I Love how light and responsive it is compared to the newer cars. My dream car someday is an E30 m3 with a Euro S50B32 motor. Ive seen those cars on the Race tracks and they are insane to watch. Good luck with your next car purchase.
 
#29
Re: MK12 mod 0 or mod1? your take....

First off, as far as weight, both are relatively heavy. The difference in weight between the two is minimal despite the ARMS 38 SPR-PEQ. At the end of the day all AR's are light compared to my TRG42 !

The check weld is similar since the ModO uses Arms Med rings, and the Mod1 uses highs, this negating the added height of the ARMS 38

Lastly the I generally use Larue or DD Lite on my builds . My Mod1 has the proper KAC FF Rifle length. I don't know where you heard that its a "wet noddle". The KAC is rock solid. The PRI carbon fiber tube does have a bit of give BTW

As far as looks, I have a soft spot for the Mod0. I couldn't bring myself to use ARMS rings, so I ended up with Badgers

This is build on a Vltor forged upper and a Noveske SPR barrel. Don't have any pics of my Mod1 handy

CopyofMK12Mod013.jpg
 
#33
Re: MK12 mod 0 or mod1? your take....

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: doorkicker</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 11B-B4</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Im almost leaning towards the 16" Spr type rifle and ops 12th model. My main concern from dropping barrel length though is an increase in DB's. My guess would be a 2 inch loss in barrel would equate to 1-2~ DB increase in sound signature. What are your thoughts? Is the difference in sound report very noticeable? </div></div>
No noticeable difference IMO. </div></div>

A 16" with OPS 12th is the setup I'm surprised you don't see more of. The difference in suppression is hard to detect.
Don't get me wrong, I love both my Mod0 and my Mod1"ish" rifles, but the Recon is my favorite.
90% of the time it has the TA11C, which has great BAC and matches the 75/77gr ammo perfectly.
But I have run the TA55A as well as the NSX 3.5-15X50. The USO 1.8-10X might be the best choice in optics.
The Krieger barrel really is that good.

_2237132.jpg
 
#35
Re: MK12 mod 0 or mod1? your take....

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KYshooter338$</div><div class="ubbcode-body">who put the semi auto thread in the bolt guns forum?!

FACE PALM

</div></div>


THE GUY that starts a thread 2-08-09 BEFORE there was a semi-auto section.
 
#37
Re: MK12 mod 0 or mod1? your take....

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KYshooter338$</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It can always be moved...... just sayin'
casual observations never hurt anyone. maybe the mods missed it.



</div></div>

nothing against casual observations, everyone has the right to that, but did it even need to be brought up? are you a mod? just a casual observation
whistle.gif
 
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