Modern Rifles and barrels.

[kraven251]

Institutional inertia tells me that if I don't "break-in" or properly "season" a barrel I will ruin the barrel and the accuracy of that barrel forever.

Having just acquired an SSG 3000, I am curious how much that is really true with modern metalurgy etc. I know it was the case in the 60's-80's, but does that still apply?

I have an ar-15 with a noveske SPR barrel chambered in 5.56 and I didn't do any sort of break in procedure and that thing has been sub-moa to 700 yards since day one (1250 round count at this point).

So do you still need to break-in rifles?

 

[Steel head]

I think breaking in most factory barrels might have merit but from my experience barrels from the premium makers that have been lapped it's not needed.

My routine now it's clean barrel before firing, shoot a few rounds, clean again just to make sure there are no major issues and then shoot the bejesus out if it.

 

[I Am Hero]

I saved this thread in my favorites. It's a good read and I agree, custom grade barrels do not need to be broken in.

http://www.snipershide.com/shooting...jective-research-barrel-break-procedures.html

 

[Ledzep]

Time and time again, I've read of or heard really good shooters/builders that used to do the "Break in" ritual that decided "what the hell" and tried not doing it, with zero adverse affects.

From receiving my custom build, I cleaned the bore thoroughly, and proceeded to fire 120 rounds through it before I cleaned it again. I fired another 100 and cleaned, and have not cleaned since (approaching 400 rounds since cleaned). My vertical dispersion last range trip was 1.2" @ 500yd.

 

[shovelstrokeed]

I received my very lightly used Accurate Ordinance built rifle with an unknown round count about 6 months ago.
The rifle came equipped with a Rock Creek 24" bbl in 6.5 CM.
I checked the bore while bore sighting my scope and only ran a damp patch followed by a dry patch through it. Both came out clean.
Round count is in excess of 500 rounds and accuracy, as well as my shooting, has improved. Best groups in a 30 round string of 5 shot groups hover in the 0.30 range with an overall average under 0.65. I expect further improvement as I learn to "do my part" better.
I doubt this barrel is ever going to get worse. When it does, I'll clean the damn thing. BTW, all with factory ammo and best results from Copper Creek loaded with 139 Scenars. Just scored about 800 bullets from various surplus stuff purchased as a batch. All 123 gr stuff. SMK, Lapua Scenar, Hornady A-max. Guess I'll have to finally bolt my Rock Crusher to something solid in the house and scrounge some powder and primers. Between 308 and 6.5CM, I've got lots of once fired brass floating around the gun room.

 

[buks]

It's kinda like foreplay...some people do....some people don't, and get right to it....the end result is pretty much to same.

 

[McCrazy]

+1 for not needing to break in high quality barrels.

The rough mass produced barrels probably do benefit from a break in as they are much rougher to begin with.

 

[TOP PREDATOR]

whether it works or not, opinions & tests vary.

but why not do it any way, you only get to the opportunity to have the first dozen or so rounds go through the barrel once.

 

[Ledzep]

Why not?

I'll give some honest answers from my perspective.

1. I mostly shoot on BLM/Nat forest/grasslands etc. almost NEVER public ranges. Could I clean my rifle every round out there? Technically, yes, but it would be an entire pain in the ass and not nearly as "controlled" an environment as I would like for cleaning.
2. Insane time commitment. After I spend time tumbling, annealing, sizing, trimming, loading, and checking ammo, I'm going to spend 10 minutes between each shot cleaning for X rounds, too?
3. excessive use of cleaning materials
4. possible damage to rifle from cleaning (especially if done in the field).
5. What results can I realistically expect? Not doing it I'm getting 1/4-1/2MOA elevation out past 1000yd. Good enough is good enough, IMO.
6. Cleaning after every shot is not conducive to load development-- wasting X number of rounds worth of barrel life that I could be using to develop a load and gather ballistic data.

I'm sure I could come up with more. Short answer: The ends don't justify the means.

 

[Bender]

This^^^^

 

[88blazer]

I shoot 10 shots, quick two patch clean, 25 shots clean, then run 100+ at matches in between cleaning. I just cleaned my 338 select match Shilen barrel after 115 rds, two patches and it was spotless. Clean copper after around 250-300. Pretty simple, thats all I do and she shoots great.

Perfect video to answer your question...New unfired Rem 700 barrel. I've bought Savages the same way. Just a typical Factory barrel, thats all.
Lilja BoreScope Video - YouTube

 

[kraven251]

Wanted to thank everyone for their responses. Very helpful, more to think about, but good info all around.

 

[Victory]

I shoot 10 shots, quick two patch clean, 25 shots clean, then run 100+ at matches in between cleaning. I just cleaned my 338 select match Shilen barrel after 115 rds, two patches and it was spotless. Clean copper after around 250-300. Pretty simple, thats all I do and she shoots great.

Perfect video to answer your question...New unfired Rem 700 barrel. I've bought Savages the same way. Just a typical Factory barrel, thats all.
Lilja BoreScope Video - YouTube

What do you think your 10 shots then clean, then 25 shots and clean is going to do over not doing any break in for a factory barrel or a hand lapped match barrel?

Just curious.

I stopped doing barrel break in a long time ago; I don't make enough to waste rounds.

 

[88blazer]

What do you think your 10 shots then clean, then 25 shots and clean is going to do over not doing any break in for a factory barrel or a hand lapped match barrel?

Just curious.

I stopped doing barrel break in a long time ago; I don't make enough to waste rounds.

Victory, this is just my take on it. With a lapped barrel, it is smooth with no rough surfaces to "sand off" copper jacket and trap carbon. As you extensively clean a factory barrel, your keeping all the crap out of the deep machining scratches as each bullet slowly works out most of the rough edges. This is why you hear many people say a factory barrel really starts to shoot good after a couple hundred rounds. The shoot and clean method is close to the same thing as a gunsmith hand lapping the barrel.

Does all the cleaning on a factory barrel really make a difference? Who knows. When I get a factory barrel, new or used, I'll lapp it myself before load development. When I order match barrels, I just shoot away. If your not comfortable lapping yourself, there are lapping bullets available called David Tubb final finish. From what I've heard, they are pretty good. I think Midway and Brownells have them. Best thing to do is find what works best for you and run with it. In this world, there are 22 million ways to skin a cat. Fun part is finding what works for you. Shoot straight.

Brian

 

[kraven251]

So a twist on this, since I actually read manuals, the SSG 3K states to not use bronze brushes to clean the barrel as it could scratch damage the finish.

How is brass going to damage chromed steel?

I normally use a snake on my rifles for the first 2 passes of my cleaning regiment, guess I need to change that. I tend to follow manufacturer recommendations, but this one is confusing.

 

[88blazer]

So a twist on this, since I actually read manuals, the SSG 3K states to not use bronze brushes to clean the barrel as it could scratch damage the finish.

How is brass going to damage chromed steel?

I normally use a snake on my rifles for the first 2 passes of my cleaning regiment, guess I need to change that. I tend to follow manufacturer recommendations, but this one is confusing.

Man, thats a hard call. I use nylon brushes on my lapped barrels. If you polish up chrome or stainless to a mirror finish(2000 wet sand and 20 then 40k jewelers rouge) you can scratch the surface with a wipe from notebook paper. Will Brass or Bronze scratch Chrome? Possibly. But sometimes I want a Bronze brush to help remove lead and carbon.

If it was me, When I do use a Bronze brush, I make sure to push all the way through the whole bore in one pass. I think is what the manufacture is try to say is if you use a Bronze brush and "scrub back and forth" it may damage the bore finish.

With that being said...I'll try to elaborate a bit...If the brush remains in the bore when the direction is reversed, the individual bristles must reverse their direction of travel. They (bristles) would need to "cam over" to reverse direction. This camming over would apply a lot of pressure to the lands and grooves, which may or may not do damage. I think it may do damage if the manufacture recommends not using a bronze brush. When a brush "cams over" in the bore, I do know it has A LOT of resistance on the rod, I can feel it.

If you do use a Bronze brush like I do sometimes, I make sure to fully exit the bore at either end of the tube before reversing direction. This way, the bristles always stays in the same direction with each pass. If you think about it, There would be no difference in a copper jacket and a Bronze brush passing down the bore if it fully passes the whole bore in each pass.

That's my take on it. Anyone have input or experience to share??? If anybody had done damage with a brush, sure would be nice to hear about it.

Brian

 

[kraven251]

I always clean bore to muzzle and never reverse direction, and pull through at a constant slow rate. Which is why I have found it confusing.

 

[40xs]

Choot dat thing! Then when accuracy falls off clean it then....choot dat thing!

 

[0311 Hesco]

Yea, just shoot it. There is so much objective research out there that shows there is no need to do anything except what [MENTION=77687]40xs[/MENTION] said. CHOOT IT!

 

[88blazer]

Oh yeah! when I choot dat thing and miss from a filthy bore, I call on Chuck Norris to round house kick the air and the shockwave from his southern cali home knocks my bullet back on target. Thanks Chuck, I owe ya one! Just get out and shoot.