Gunsmithing More 700 Ejection Problems

LoneWolfUSMC

LoneWolfUSMC

Lt. Colonel
Full Member
Minuteman
Jan 9, 2008
7,377
17
Southern Indiana
www.8541tactical.com
#1
I have had this issue for quite some time.

When I run the bolt as quickly as I can, I will sometimes have a case end up backwards in the ejection port.

Originally I thought this was from the oversized turrets on the Falcon Menace. I had brass marks on the turret from cases striking it. I trimmed a coil off the ejector spring thinking this would reduce the speed of the cases and thus the force they were hitting the turret. This didn't seem to help much (if at all). I didn't mess with it much more because I knew I was replacing the scope when my SN-3 arrived and I had hoped that the issue would go away as well.

Flash to now. I have the USO SN-3 installed and found that I still have the same issue. I have brass marks on the bottom edge of the #3 M40 turret and ever once in awhile I will have a case end up backwards.

So now my question is twofold:

1. Do any of you Remington Guru's think that modifying the ejector to extend further is the next appropriate step. It is nowhere near flush with the outer ring of the bolt face. I had read that you can open the notch up until it's flush without causing any problems.

2. Does anyone else have problems with brass hitting the bottom of the turret on their SN-3?

I am running a Seekins 20 MOA base and Low 30mm Rings. I don't really want to change the mounting hardware.
 
#3
Re: More 700 Ejection Problems

I have never had a failure to extract or anything else I could attribute to the extractor, but at this point I am lost.

It's irritating because I can run the bolt at medium speed and not have an issue, but medium speed is not acceptable. I want to be able to drill a target almost as fast as a semi-auto. MY speed is almost there, but the rifle can't keep up.

I have gotten REAL good at clearing malfunctions though.
wink.gif
 
#4
Re: More 700 Ejection Problems

Extractor tension is critical to ejection. Ask any 1911 smith how critical it is.It effects the timing of when the extractor lets go of the casing during the load unload cycle. It may not be your problem but its a possibility.
 
#7
Re: More 700 Ejection Problems

Yes the scope can bounce the brass back into the rifle. A simple way to test if it's the scope take off the scope and run the rifle. Yes you won't hit anything but you may get an idea.

If there isn't enough tension on the extractor it will drop the brass on the way out. Running it fast will show this more. The brass will smack into the receiver as the brass leaves the chamber, the ejector starts to push on the brass and as the brass hit the inside of the receiver and the extractor will drop it.

You can experiment with cutting coils on the ejector spring to give it less force. Also check and see if the extractor has crap behind it. Push in on the claw if it has spring to it the extractor is moving freely, if not brush and blow the crap out. Avoid removing the extractor unless you have a replacement. They are not meant to be removed and put back it. Take it out put in a new one.

Believe it or not if you have run the same brass several times the extractor could have shaved off enough brass on the rim that it's just not as reliable as it once was not enough meat for the claw to hold on to.

The final thing is you may just need a new extractor.
 
#8
Re: More 700 Ejection Problems

Thanks Randy. I will check the items you mentioned.

Luckily before the last school I went to I bought a new extractor, ejector spring, ejector and retaining pin from Brownells because it appears that none of the "gunsmiths" around here keep those parts on hand.
 
#9
Ejection Problems (now with video)

While I was at the range today I shot some video.

This is with one coil off the ejector spring. The extractor has spring tension and will adequately hold the case when I have the bolt out of the rifle. When I run the bolt at anything less that full speed it functions 100%.

One thing I did notice is that the ejector sits a bit back from the nose of the bolt. I remember reading that it can be set to extend further as long as it is still flush with the outer ring of the bolt face. I will try to get a pic later this morning (after some coffee).

<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/udQJ2_ziDFo&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/udQJ2_ziDFo&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>
 
#10
Re: Ejection Problems (now with video)

I think your hitting the back of the ejection port, which would be why it looks like the paint is gone there. it seems like the round is staying level and I didnt really notice any interaction with the scope. Surely someone who will know the answer for this will chime in, but till then Great video I give it a 9 out of 10, those damn birds cost you a point!
 
#13
Re: Ejection Problems (now with video)

The extractor is letting go of the brass before the bolt is fully to the rear. Your initial rearward movement of the bolt extracts the case starting it to the rear, as the mouth of the case clears the chamber the ejector causes the case to smack the inside side of the receiver, this shock causes the extractor to let go.

There's already enough momentum to keep the brass coming to the rear but by then the extractor has already dropped it and it's now out of position to properly eject.

Cutting the spring to the ejector will sometimes take enough force off the extractor to allow it to hold onto the brass a little longer but the correct fix is to replace the extractor.

Another cause of this is using brass that has been reloaded too many times and has had the rim shaved one too many times by the extractor. There's nothing left for the extractor to hold on to.


 
#14
Re: Ejection Problems (now with video)


At 1:53 there is one frame that looks like the mouth of the brass is hitting the scope turret and kicking the brass back in the receiver head first.

Randy's first suggestion of try it without the scope was the place to start. If scope turret is responsible, then a scope/ring change may be the answer.

Working with the extractor/ejector to change the angle/timing of ejection can also fix the problem. Starting with a new extractor and new standard ejector spring would simplify the process if some part of the problem is due to wear.

Good shooting,
Ron
 
#15
Re: Ejection Problems (now with video)

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: HateCA</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Cutting the spring to the ejector will sometimes take enough force off the extractor to allow it to hold onto the brass a little longer but the correct fix is to replace the extractor.

Another cause of this is using brass that has been reloaded too many times and has had the rim shaved one too many times by the extractor. There's nothing left for the extractor to hold on to.
</div></div>

Randy I already cut a coil, and it does it with brand new Federal GMM. So I guess replacing the extractor is on the list for the day.

Any tips on putting the new one in? That's something I never attempted before and want to make sure I don't jack up the only replacement I have.

Also would you suggest putting a replacement spring back in or leaving the cut one?

How many rounds do these extractors last for? This was something I never had to deal with because it was not unit level maintenance.

Thanks
 
#16
Re: Ejection Problems (now with video)

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LoneWolfUSMC</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: HateCA</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Cutting the spring to the ejector will sometimes take enough force off the extractor to allow it to hold onto the brass a little longer but the correct fix is to replace the extractor.

Another cause of this is using brass that has been reloaded too many times and has had the rim shaved one too many times by the extractor. There's nothing left for the extractor to hold on to.
</div></div>

Randy I already cut a coil, and it does it with brand new Federal GMM. So I guess replacing the extractor is on the list for the day.

Any tips on putting the new one in? That's something I never attempted before and want to make sure I don't jack up the only replacement I have.

Also would you suggest putting a replacement spring back in or leaving the cut one?

Thanks </div></div>

I'm going to assume this is the snap in extractor. Riveted extractors are not a do it yourself job without the tools.

Snap in extractor are pretty easy. I like to remove the ejector to get it out of the way. Once out then simply pry out the old extractor. Once out you will see why you should never put old ones back in.

Take the new extractor and place one end down into the bolt nose rim. (Be sure you have it facing the correct way or you will be putting in another new one). I like to go from left to right towards the little cut-out in the bolt nose rim. Without bending the extractor walk it in sort of like putting a tire on a wheel. When the other end gets to the little cut-out it will snap in.

It might be a little out of position, if so just use a tip of a small screwdriver to slid it around the rim into position. Re-install the ejector if need be and you’re done.

Leave the cut spring and try that, like I said it can help the extractor hold on a little better.
 
#18
Re: More 700 Ejection Problems

I have this exact same problem with my remington, and it's only when I quickly try to eject the brass. If you find a solution please let me know. I took my Lupy off thinking it might be hitting the scope, but it still did it. I was about to send it back to GAP, but I would rather find a fix myself.
 
#19
Re: More 700 Ejection Problems

Thought I had the same issue with my new stiller action, until I found the brass marks under the windage turret. Took the scope off and it slung them like a champ.
Got some higher rings to resolve.
 
#20
Re: More 700 Ejection Problems

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RC2125</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thought I had the same issue with my new stiller action, until I found the brass marks under the windage turret. Took the scope off and it slung them like a champ.
Got some higher rings to resolve. </div></div>

That is a direct issue regarding Sako and M16 style extractors and their position in relation to the ejector. A very common problem and the reason I don't like them except in a magnum and only after the factor riveted extractor fails.
 
#21
Re: More 700 Ejection Problems

Without the adjustable cheek piece on the aics, it would have been a bigger problem. The exaggerated knob end of the menace turret didn't help the matter either. Was using too low of rings, just cuz they were on hand.
 
#22
Re: More 700 Ejection Problems

I had a very similar issue with my .223 Ackley. Popped out the old extractor and dropped in a new one and haven't had an issue since.

You can replace that extractor LW, piece of cake.
 
#24
Re: More 700 Ejection Problems

Let us know how that goes. I'm interested to see if that cures it. I replaced mine, but that didn't work. Your video has prompted me to try the same. Maybe I can slo-mo it and find something.
 
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