I'm looking to get more into gunsmithing and would like to get a fairly small lathe that would be good for truing actions, clambering barrels. I'm sure this is a common question so if someone could direct me to a past thread I would appreciate it.
-
Having trouble using the site?
Contact support
Gunsmithing Most reasonable lathe
- Thread starter ForeverZ01
- Start date
Many good units out there, but my next will be a Jet1440ZX w/a 3.25" past thru an mag DRO. Friend (none gun smith) has one and it will do everything on a gun that needs done.
Last edited:
You might find a used one for that but a good one w/ tooling is going to be in 5-10K +/- range. The issues I've found is the machine is the lesser of the money spent. The bulk is on tooling which will exceed the machine cost very quickly, no matter what the machine is. If you intend on doing full blown gunsmithing buy once an cry once. The South-Bend I have will do a lot, but it will not thread/chamber a barrel. Do to pass thru an no spider or ability to take/install one, feasible. The amount of tooling I have for it fills 2 large tool box's and only about 15-20% could be used on my next, larger machine. I will not make that mistake again when buying. Then if you really get into Smithing a mill is the next step, they are not a cheap package either. The amount of set up time is also a factor you may want to consider.
From my extremely limited experience under 2k isn't going to happen. I would bump your budget to 3500-5k and you can make it work quite well.
You could do a lot worse than a Grizzly 4003G (12x36). Fairly small footprint for a garage installation, and a large spindle bore with spider. Also has a tail stock that can be torqued down with a torque wrench for repeatable alignment.
I'm confident you could find a used lathe that will do everything a home shop rifle builder needs to do for under $2k, machine only.
$2K budget? Gonna have to go to the used market for one in that price range.
Your gonna have to bump that up to a little over $3k to get a new one.
Your gonna have to bump that up to a little over $3k to get a new one.
You can find used ones for under 2k but they are hard to come by. In that price range you are looking at 9 and 10 inch lathes for the most part. You can get by with something that small on a home shop basis and recognize that it will take you longer on set up and working as the smaller ones are not as rigid. I have a South Bend 10k now I can work on sporter contour barrels and that has been good practice. Since the spindle bore is not large enough to pass through I work between centers. Unfortunately the bed is not long enough at 3.5ft to do much else. I have an old Sheldon 10L that I am restoring now that will do everything I need. I picked the South Bend up for $900 on ebay the Sheldon was a local Craig's List for $400 with tooling and a nice a steel cabinet that it sets on. Like others have said tooling is the real bitch. You can get by with a South Bend 9 or 10K if the bed is the long 54 inch model and work between centers. I suggest a little larger with a minimum spindle bore of 1.25 it will make your life a lot easier. Good luck with your search. Oh yeah did I mention tooling is a real bitch and don't go cheap on tooling that will also make life easier.
Thanks for the info. Looks like I'll be keeping an eye on craigslist for a start. Is there any requirement in a lathe to be able to cut the right pitch threads
Most lathes will cut threads. Some will require gear changes, just make sure the gears come with the lathe.
I've been using a South Bend 10k with the 54" bed and work between centers with a steady rest. As has been mentioned you'll need the long bed due to the spindle hole being less than an inch. The 54" beds are as hard to come by as the SB 10L with the 1 3/8" spindle hole but might cost less. Both can be had for under 2k if you look long enough. Rebuilding one is very simple. Whatever you do get quick change gears.
I bought mine mine because the 10L was hard to find but that was my first choice. I went with the South Bend's because they're cheaper than new and can easily be rebuilt and there are lots of parts still available. I wished I held out for a 10L but that could have taken forever.
Another good thing about the long beds are that most work is done near the headstock. For gunsmith work between centers you'll be near the end of the bed where there is much less wear on a used lathe.
I bought mine mine because the 10L was hard to find but that was my first choice. I went with the South Bend's because they're cheaper than new and can easily be rebuilt and there are lots of parts still available. I wished I held out for a 10L but that could have taken forever.
Another good thing about the long beds are that most work is done near the headstock. For gunsmith work between centers you'll be near the end of the bed where there is much less wear on a used lathe.
I bought a used Sheldon last year for 1200 bucks with some tooling. I looked at many craigslist lathes drove all over the state. One day I mentioned to my gunsmith of all people I was looking and he had an extra in his barn. A month later I bought a mill from him .
Like others are saying that was a drop in the bucket compared to hooking it up (three phase) and buying tooling . Keep looking put the word out they are machines out there follow the leads.
Like others are saying that was a drop in the bucket compared to hooking it up (three phase) and buying tooling . Keep looking put the word out they are machines out there follow the leads.
Keep an eye out for a good used one on CL, fleabay (if you're willing to travel) or local adverts. Can ask local shops if they know any sales/auctions in the area too. As said before, a barebones lathe for $2k will not cover tooling. You can easily double (or triple) your budget with tooling depending on what you want to do.
Regarding electrical, if you can read a diagram or an instruction manual and can turn a screwdriver it's not rocket surgery to install a rotophase or a Variable Frequency Drive (VFD) to get 3-phase from single phase 220. You can spend a little or a lot on the hardware. There are some cheap-ass chinese VFDs that seem to work. I have a 2200w one from fleabay; $141 shipped, but my livelihood does not depend on it.
Lastly, like designing a garage, design it for what you need, then make it bigger. Choose a lathe for what you want to do, then get the next biggest one.
Buy once, cry once, right? They don't really depreciate unless purchased new.
Regarding electrical, if you can read a diagram or an instruction manual and can turn a screwdriver it's not rocket surgery to install a rotophase or a Variable Frequency Drive (VFD) to get 3-phase from single phase 220. You can spend a little or a lot on the hardware. There are some cheap-ass chinese VFDs that seem to work. I have a 2200w one from fleabay; $141 shipped, but my livelihood does not depend on it.
Lastly, like designing a garage, design it for what you need, then make it bigger. Choose a lathe for what you want to do, then get the next biggest one.
Buy once, cry once, right? They don't really depreciate unless purchased new.
If you have access to any local machinists they usually hear about machines and may know the condition and the seller.
They can also lend insight on tooling and setup after you make your choice.
Most guys are happy to help where they can.
R
They can also lend insight on tooling and setup after you make your choice.
Most guys are happy to help where they can.
R
I have been researching this for a very considerable amount of time.
My "workshop", which isn't available yet, has one 220V receptacle. That is going to be used for the second hand mill that I bought.
I have kicked around and kicked around. I want to keep the cost as close to 3000 as possible, Since I will be learning on the lathe, I wanted speeds down to about 50 RPM, I also want as few "change gear" operations as possible. I also want to limit to 110V at this time as I won't have to run any new wiring, an added expense.
This has led me to the PM1228. It has a 2 hp, brushless motor, can cut 15 different threads without changing gears, a reasonably small footprint and fairly light weight, as far as lathes goes. With the stand, it is 3299. http://www.machinetoolonline.com/PM-1228VF-LB.html
oddly, there aren't many used lathes for sale around here, (there are a lot of shipyards and oil field work locally) also consider that many used lathes need to be rebuilt.
If I was going with a 220V system, then I would likely opt for the Grizzly G4003G as the norton gear box is a big plus.
My "workshop", which isn't available yet, has one 220V receptacle. That is going to be used for the second hand mill that I bought.
I have kicked around and kicked around. I want to keep the cost as close to 3000 as possible, Since I will be learning on the lathe, I wanted speeds down to about 50 RPM, I also want as few "change gear" operations as possible. I also want to limit to 110V at this time as I won't have to run any new wiring, an added expense.
This has led me to the PM1228. It has a 2 hp, brushless motor, can cut 15 different threads without changing gears, a reasonably small footprint and fairly light weight, as far as lathes goes. With the stand, it is 3299. http://www.machinetoolonline.com/PM-1228VF-LB.html
oddly, there aren't many used lathes for sale around here, (there are a lot of shipyards and oil field work locally) also consider that many used lathes need to be rebuilt.
If I was going with a 220V system, then I would likely opt for the Grizzly G4003G as the norton gear box is a big plus.
I work on a 54" bed SB that I tore down and restored from scratch, in great shape with little wear- but; they seem to go for crazy money these days; and finding one- or better yet, a Heavy 10 that's not clapped out is difficult.
If buying used- any make- you need to know what to look for, Many things can be replaced/repaired- except for bed wear. This isn't always a deal-killer for barrel work as long as you stay away from contouring, but you still need to "read up" on what to check in a used lathe or take someone that knows with you.
That said, I've heard (but no personal experience) that the PM1236 is a decent machine for the buck but you're not going to get it new for 2K. Don't know where you are, but there's a used one for sale here in the Tampa area with DRO (might take a look at it myself).
As stated above- double your budget for minimal tooling. Bigger is better for rigidity...
You MUST have a minimum 1-3/8" spindle bore, OR a long bed- depending on whether you want to work through the headstock or between centers.
If buying used- any make- you need to know what to look for, Many things can be replaced/repaired- except for bed wear. This isn't always a deal-killer for barrel work as long as you stay away from contouring, but you still need to "read up" on what to check in a used lathe or take someone that knows with you.
That said, I've heard (but no personal experience) that the PM1236 is a decent machine for the buck but you're not going to get it new for 2K. Don't know where you are, but there's a used one for sale here in the Tampa area with DRO (might take a look at it myself).
As stated above- double your budget for minimal tooling. Bigger is better for rigidity...
You MUST have a minimum 1-3/8" spindle bore, OR a long bed- depending on whether you want to work through the headstock or between centers.
Last edited:
My local smith has 2: a Grizzly that he doesn't like. He said if you walk away from it the whole thing comes out of spec. I don't know which model but it's very big. Maybe he got a bad one. The second one is a Pro Turn that he uses. Appears to be very high quality.
I figure if I wanted to enter the game $25K would get me started with a lathe, mill, and tooling. Not including a building. It's only money!
I figure if I wanted to enter the game $25K would get me started with a lathe, mill, and tooling. Not including a building. It's only money!
A one man garage shop should be fine sharing a single 220 circuit between two manual machines provided it is sized for the largest single load. You'll never be using both machines at once. 220 really opens up the number of lathes available.
This plus a three phase converter can accommodate a fair size lathe.
My lathe is 5hp, when testing I was surprised it didn't have a very high start up amp load.
R
Used Lathe buying...what a tangled web. Ive done a lot of research on this and frankly, i'm really no smarter than when I started. Im a little more familiar about brands, but it seams like almost every machine has caveats.
I'm going to upgrade my enco 13x40 to a professional grade machine. Ive got some machines nailed down, but no solution will be perfect.
My advice is to find someone you trust, who can point you in the right direction. If you havent already, try to get some time on a few machines so you can figure out your needs, wants, and the nice to haves.
I'm going to upgrade my enco 13x40 to a professional grade machine. Ive got some machines nailed down, but no solution will be perfect.
My advice is to find someone you trust, who can point you in the right direction. If you havent already, try to get some time on a few machines so you can figure out your needs, wants, and the nice to haves.
Last edited:
I'll reinforce the comments about tooling eating up your budget. I bought a South Bend 13x60 last year for $1400 with a 4-jaw chuck, taper attachment, but no tool post. Then I saw how expensive the good tool posts are, I picked up a turret post for now but will eventually get an Aloris or the like now that I have played with one in person.
Keep that in mind if you find a used one that has a good toolpost/holders/bits!
I doubled the $1400 investment pretty easily and still have a long wish list.
I strongly recommend the ABB VFDs, I buy from Wistex.com, best prices around
Keep that in mind if you find a used one that has a good toolpost/holders/bits!
I doubled the $1400 investment pretty easily and still have a long wish list.
I strongly recommend the ABB VFDs, I buy from Wistex.com, best prices around
I run a pm1440bv, a heavy 10, 9×42 mill, 19cfm@175psi compressor, surface grinder and all the lights on a 100 amp sub panel I added when I downsized shops. I was more worried about my miller 351 popping the main, but I pretty much do what ever I want and never trip out.
I bought the heavy 10 last year on a whim for 2k because it came with 4 chucks including a jacobs collet that is AWESOME and a truck load of tooling including some diamond lathe tooling I've never seen. I'm pretty much never going to need a piece of hs or carbide again forever.
Look around often and have cash ready to spend.....Deals show up when you least expect it.
When I bought the heavy 10, I asked if he was selling any other stuff, and he said "a grinder thing". I bought for the sumount of 50 bux a Oliver drill sharpening machine that simply rocks. I've sharpened twist drills by hand for years but this thing makes me look stupid.
Be ready!
I had to upgrade my utility transformer to a 50kva and have 3/0 THHN feeders to my lathe RPC (650mcm to my main). The rest of my machine shop is run off that same 200a circuit and the house is off another 200.
My Millermatic 251 seems to be fine on a 50a breaker at full throttle. My Syncrowave 200 will pop a 60a breaker when topped out in AL for more than a couple minutes.
For a normal garage guy, a single 50a 220 circuit is going would be fine. May not technically be up to code if they are hard wired, but it will be safe. Even if the compressor kicked on at the same time a lathe was in a cut, I doubt the breaker would trip. 2-3 hp lathe startup at the exact same time as a 5 hp compressor startup, still probably not (thinking out loud, not actually running numbers).
As others have said, don't under estimate tooling costs. I picked up a not entirely wore out Voest 16x45" for $1200 and a 4 hour drive. I've since spent well over $2000 on tooling, chucks, centers and whatnot. Same with the Bridgeport. I've got far more buried in tooling and fixturing then the machine itself.
I definitely have more of an appreciation of why proffesional gun smithing services are as expensive as they are.
I definitely have more of an appreciation of why proffesional gun smithing services are as expensive as they are.
Yes for the low in price cheek the used lathes . You might want to save a few more dollars to find something you really like
