Moving target
- Thread starter Klemm
- Start date
Olympic Running Target started in the early 1900s but sadly has gone away.
They still train for running boar in Germany.
They still train for running boar in Germany.
*VERY ROUGH rule of thumb* for a starting point that I use for moving targets: 1.5 MILS lead for every 3 mph of target speed. I find that I have more success with the ambush method (pick a spot in front of the target and press the trigger as the target crosses the calculated lead) than the track method (move the rifle along with the target, holding the crosshair in front by the calculated lead at all times). Don't forget to add or subtract your wind hold from the lead as well.
I'm sure there are lots of folks around here who can drop more detailed information than I can. This is just what I use that works for me.
I'm sure there are lots of folks around here who can drop more detailed information than I can. This is just what I use that works for me.
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Range with pits for guys holding movers. A guy running is about an 8 MIL lead.
For a lot of common rounds, 0.5 MIL per MPH is a good start. (matches the 1.5 MIL per 3 MPH above).
But knowing target speed is critical. If you have a MIL reticle, you can use that and a stop watch to calculate speed.
The real problem is that deer don’t move at a constant speed, and often aren’t moving perpendicular to our position, you have to consider changing distance at the same time. And often working through open lane in wooded areas. So a lot more going on than just a moving target. Ultimately, watching till the deer slows to a walk or stops for a second is the best bet.
‘And I LOVE shooting moving targets at the range. But there’s a big difference between being good at moving targets on the range and live animals. One is predictable, one is not.
For a lot of common rounds, 0.5 MIL per MPH is a good start. (matches the 1.5 MIL per 3 MPH above).
But knowing target speed is critical. If you have a MIL reticle, you can use that and a stop watch to calculate speed.
The real problem is that deer don’t move at a constant speed, and often aren’t moving perpendicular to our position, you have to consider changing distance at the same time. And often working through open lane in wooded areas. So a lot more going on than just a moving target. Ultimately, watching till the deer slows to a walk or stops for a second is the best bet.
‘And I LOVE shooting moving targets at the range. But there’s a big difference between being good at moving targets on the range and live animals. One is predictable, one is not.
I will preface this by saying that shooting running animals with no experience is not "sporting." I grew up in Iowa where deer drives with shotguns are the norm. Everyone took dozens of shots every year. Most missed and some wounded a lot. It was the culture.
I was lucky and had it "click." I missed a lot and wounded a few to figure I out. I also shot hundreds of slugs at running deer before being able to consistently hit them through the lungs. I also probably left a few laying dead before I got really cocky and started looking for blood on every one. After that I started finding a lot that didn't act hit at the shot.
I will say that deer drives don't have to be done this way, but the normal method in Iowa is pretty rough and tumble and frankly not that ethical to the deer. I have been involved in big drives with several dozen people over the years. About 1 in 10 people is consistently good at shooting running deer and a second guy is fair. There is a shitload of folklore and bad advice out there.
The way I taught myself to do it was to use a ballistic calculator and get the time of flight for the slug or bullet. I then assumed a loping deer was going 15 mph and a running deer was going 25 mph. I made an excel spreadsheet that gave me the leads for different distances. The leads apply along the path of the animal. Applying a reticle hold based on all this math only works when the animal is basically moving perpendicular to the bullets path. Using the lead I would aim ahead of the animal using the lead along its path. This got me close enough to make some hits and start refining things. When you hit you start to get a feel for things and it becomes instinctual.
What happens is you get a feel for how long it takes a bullet to travel to the target at different distances. As you track the target or the animal in the scope/sights your mind is mapping out the distance it is traveling in the amount of time it takes the bullet to get there. That shows you the lead. If the animal or target is in the open I track it and imagine the shot over and over until I am confident I have the correct lead. I then execute the shot. With running coyotes and a semiauto you can watch and adjust. Also, as animals run there is an up and down movement to them. It is common to hit the spine, or a leg pulled up tight underneath their body.
To use the reticle and this method you track the animal and imagine the time of flight while watching how far it moves in the reticle. The thing that gets most people is how much lead it takes. It takes a shitload. A loping deer or coyote crossing at 15 mph takes 7.5 mils roughly depending on rifle cartridge. More for one running full out. You also have to compensate for your reaction time if you ambush.
Watch some guys with through the scope footage and you will see how much they are leading coyotes to hit.
I guess this turned into a long winded post. If you are a cold blooded killer and have the stomach for some issues, throw lead and apply the principles above. If you thumb your nose at such and have the utmost respect for the
animals you pursue, whistle or bleat them to a stop or pass on the shot. Even though I learned how to hit running shots when I was young, I trend toward the latter the older I get.
I was lucky and had it "click." I missed a lot and wounded a few to figure I out. I also shot hundreds of slugs at running deer before being able to consistently hit them through the lungs. I also probably left a few laying dead before I got really cocky and started looking for blood on every one. After that I started finding a lot that didn't act hit at the shot.
I will say that deer drives don't have to be done this way, but the normal method in Iowa is pretty rough and tumble and frankly not that ethical to the deer. I have been involved in big drives with several dozen people over the years. About 1 in 10 people is consistently good at shooting running deer and a second guy is fair. There is a shitload of folklore and bad advice out there.
The way I taught myself to do it was to use a ballistic calculator and get the time of flight for the slug or bullet. I then assumed a loping deer was going 15 mph and a running deer was going 25 mph. I made an excel spreadsheet that gave me the leads for different distances. The leads apply along the path of the animal. Applying a reticle hold based on all this math only works when the animal is basically moving perpendicular to the bullets path. Using the lead I would aim ahead of the animal using the lead along its path. This got me close enough to make some hits and start refining things. When you hit you start to get a feel for things and it becomes instinctual.
What happens is you get a feel for how long it takes a bullet to travel to the target at different distances. As you track the target or the animal in the scope/sights your mind is mapping out the distance it is traveling in the amount of time it takes the bullet to get there. That shows you the lead. If the animal or target is in the open I track it and imagine the shot over and over until I am confident I have the correct lead. I then execute the shot. With running coyotes and a semiauto you can watch and adjust. Also, as animals run there is an up and down movement to them. It is common to hit the spine, or a leg pulled up tight underneath their body.
To use the reticle and this method you track the animal and imagine the time of flight while watching how far it moves in the reticle. The thing that gets most people is how much lead it takes. It takes a shitload. A loping deer or coyote crossing at 15 mph takes 7.5 mils roughly depending on rifle cartridge. More for one running full out. You also have to compensate for your reaction time if you ambush.
Watch some guys with through the scope footage and you will see how much they are leading coyotes to hit.
I guess this turned into a long winded post. If you are a cold blooded killer and have the stomach for some issues, throw lead and apply the principles above. If you thumb your nose at such and have the utmost respect for the
animals you pursue, whistle or bleat them to a stop or pass on the shot. Even though I learned how to hit running shots when I was young, I trend toward the latter the older I get.
I understand and agree with everything you’re saying. If I am shooting a deer it’s only at Max 100 yards if that.
I still want to be proficient and I don’t have a mover to practice with. That’s why I’m asking questions
Looking for a good ideas to make a mover
I still want to be proficient and I don’t have a mover to practice with. That’s why I’m asking questions
Looking for a good ideas to make a mover
I think the problem here is although there are some basic mph/mils formulas, they really won't help you much in real life. It comes down to experience(practice) which develops better reaction and instinct when hitting moving targets. Yes, mph/mils will help if you are at a range where the targets are moving at a steady speed, perpendicular to you, but in real life it is completely unpredictable what your target will do, and consistency in movement is almost never the case. I get what you're asking, and that it is possibly more of a hypothetical, but most of hunting is setting up a good shot, which suggests the target should not only be stationary, but presented at an angle where you can take an ethical shot. If the aforementioned situation does not happen, more times than not you need to be willing to just let it go. A lot of us that have practiced shooting movers have done so not for hunting, but for shooting at moving humans, where a clean shot is not completely necessary like it is hunting game animals. Hope that makes sense. I don't believe you'll get a good/complete answer to what you are asking here.
They way moving targets are shot in real life, is that you have pre-solved holds for walk/trot/run for the distances you plan on shooting.
You can easily google the walk/trot/run speed of your intended target. Then with software, solve the leads for the distances you expect to shoot.
The exact same way you'd build a dope card. Then you either have it with you or memorized.
For example, if you plan only shooting 100yds as stated above, and you pre solve that a deer running is a .5 lead (making that up for an example).....you already have this info prepared and then use it on the fly when the deer appears and is running.
If you miss at that range, fairly decent chance you won't see your miss. But the further away you are, the easier you'll be able to see a miss. Then it's just a normal correction like anything else.
That gives you a base to work with. If the target seems to move in between your pre-solved speeds, you will adjust with more or less lead. Or if the target is quartering away or towards......etc etc.
But the answer is: have pre-solved data for speed and distance, then adjust as best you can when it happens.
And obviously practicing on movers helps.
You can easily google the walk/trot/run speed of your intended target. Then with software, solve the leads for the distances you expect to shoot.
The exact same way you'd build a dope card. Then you either have it with you or memorized.
For example, if you plan only shooting 100yds as stated above, and you pre solve that a deer running is a .5 lead (making that up for an example).....you already have this info prepared and then use it on the fly when the deer appears and is running.
If you miss at that range, fairly decent chance you won't see your miss. But the further away you are, the easier you'll be able to see a miss. Then it's just a normal correction like anything else.
That gives you a base to work with. If the target seems to move in between your pre-solved speeds, you will adjust with more or less lead. Or if the target is quartering away or towards......etc etc.
But the answer is: have pre-solved data for speed and distance, then adjust as best you can when it happens.
And obviously practicing on movers helps.
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