Mr Rate, from "SHOOTER"
- Thread starter GrumpyOleFart
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Someone told me Mr Rate is based on a real person. If that's the case, must have been fun to chat with over a few beers.
Welcome to Tennessee, patron state of shootin' stuff.
The character was sort of loosely based on Townsend Whelan. And an aggregate of guys like Elmer Keith, Jelly Bryce, Bill Jordan and other guys who author Stephen Hunter (a serious student of precision shooting history) read about and knew.
Remember, Shooter was from the book Point of Impact that Hunter wrote in the 1970s based on Swagger being a Vietnam veteran. Not Marky Mark and his African CIA contractor stuff... So those characters were all still around and some at the peak of their careers. Whelan was ‘the ‘ legend then, having started in the black powder era and become the master of the cartridge era.
I enjoy Hunters books. They are like eating cookies after the meat and potatoes of history books. In one, Pale Horse Coming, he assembles a cast of the legendary American gunmen to clean out a corrupt prison. All the legends are portrayed, if not by name by reputation and resume. You know who is who instantly.
His books, especially the Earl Swagger series, are not far off, historically speaking. He weaves Earl Swagger into accurately-researched time/place scenarios and uses Swagger (and characters like his CIA agent Frenchy) to make the plot work out in a historically accurate conclusion... even if the background plot is pure fantasy. Again, good reads.
And Levon Helm was probably not acting. Just ad-libbing! The man was out there! In a good way.
Sirhr
Remember, Shooter was from the book Point of Impact that Hunter wrote in the 1970s based on Swagger being a Vietnam veteran. Not Marky Mark and his African CIA contractor stuff... So those characters were all still around and some at the peak of their careers. Whelan was ‘the ‘ legend then, having started in the black powder era and become the master of the cartridge era.
I enjoy Hunters books. They are like eating cookies after the meat and potatoes of history books. In one, Pale Horse Coming, he assembles a cast of the legendary American gunmen to clean out a corrupt prison. All the legends are portrayed, if not by name by reputation and resume. You know who is who instantly.
His books, especially the Earl Swagger series, are not far off, historically speaking. He weaves Earl Swagger into accurately-researched time/place scenarios and uses Swagger (and characters like his CIA agent Frenchy) to make the plot work out in a historically accurate conclusion... even if the background plot is pure fantasy. Again, good reads.
And Levon Helm was probably not acting. Just ad-libbing! The man was out there! In a good way.
Sirhr
...and played a mean set of drums.
I read Point of Impact at about 16 yrs old. It is the book that got me interested in long range shooting. You would think that I would be better at it by now, but life happened along the way too....
"You dont understand, they killed my dog" - from the book, they shifted it a bit for the movie
"You dont understand, they killed my dog" - from the book, they shifted it a bit for the movie
And talented songwriter... Co-wrote "the night they drove ol dixie down"... one of The Bands greats. He and Robbie Robertson co wrote a lot, though Robertson got a lot of the credit thanks to Martin Scorsese.
Helm also played Jack Ridley in the movie The Right Stuff... Beemans? One of the best movies ever.
Sirhr
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The Weight is one of my favorites. Started listening to The Band as a kid in the late sixties and saw them several times in concert at the Fillmore East. Levon was very talented had a great solo career after the band broke up. Still listen to them and have watched the Last Waltz numerous times.
- Nov 3, 2010
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...and Loretta Lynn's dad, Ted Webb, in Coal Miner's Daughter. Also appeared in one Steven Segal movie that escapes me right now. Seems I (dis) remember a couple other roles.
I was always partial to Stage Fright and Cripple Creek.
That is my favorite scene in the movie.
"Still got the shovel" was the icing on the cake for me hahaha. I actually like the movie although it's like most gun or car movies, so many inaccuracies. The series that USA network did has the same issues. Glad you guys brought this up though, been meaning to find the book it was based on because I've always heard it was great, couldn't remember the name of it.
"Still got the shovel" was the icing on the cake for me hahaha. I actually like the movie although it's like most gun or car movies, so many inaccuracies. The series that USA network did has the same issues. Glad you guys brought this up though, been meaning to find the book it was based on because I've always heard it was great, couldn't remember the name of it.
I like the movie, and tried watching the series....but when he started using an adjustable wrench to mount a scope, I just couldn't...LOL
The book was one of my favorites. and i have been a big fan of Levon Helm for a long time. He is an incredible character and part of americana.
The Last Waltz is incredible to watch/listen to. I heard that after that Levon refused to play "The night they drove old dixie down" live again, since they did it so perfectly on the Last Waltz.
levon was also great in "the three burials of melquiades estrada" with Tommy Lee Jones, Barry Pepper, January Jones and Levon plays the old blind man they come across. sad part he plays.
"Levon digs the doghouse, playing in The Band,
When he locks in to that backbeat it ain't hard to understand.
Get your body movin', celebrate your soul,
Levon digs the doghouse, that's sho-nuff rock and roll"
The Last Waltz is incredible to watch/listen to. I heard that after that Levon refused to play "The night they drove old dixie down" live again, since they did it so perfectly on the Last Waltz.
levon was also great in "the three burials of melquiades estrada" with Tommy Lee Jones, Barry Pepper, January Jones and Levon plays the old blind man they come across. sad part he plays.
"Levon digs the doghouse, playing in The Band,
When he locks in to that backbeat it ain't hard to understand.
Get your body movin', celebrate your soul,
Levon digs the doghouse, that's sho-nuff rock and roll"
I watched The Right Stuff a half dozen times before I realized it was Levon Helm......He just looked so different, it didn’t register with me.
I think he wrote it in the early 90s about a Vietnam vet. Great book. Most of the series is good, some of it gets into silliness.
So I was watching "In the Electric Mist " when Tommy Lee Jones kept talking to the ghost of a a Confederate General. His voice familiar, I looked up the actor - it was Levon Helm, did the TN gunsmith from TN in "Shooter."
I believe @sirhrmechanic was noting the time setting of the book in the 70’s and not that Hunter wrote it in the 70’s.
published in ‘93 per my copy on the shelf here in my office.
published in ‘93 per my copy on the shelf here in my office.
True... He did do his first sniper book in 1980 and it introduced Frenchy and some other characters. It was called The Master Sniper and was a WW2 thriller. It was kind of bad.... ;-)
Sirhr
Sirhr
Also, no Pigeons in your picture thingy @sirhrmechanic ?
Or did @Bender already find and “kill” them in his usual fashion?
Or did @Bender already find and “kill” them in his usual fashion?
Pigeons?Also, no Pigeons in your picture thingy @sirhrmechanic ?
Or did @Bender already find and “kill” them in his usual fashion?
Hollywood ruins all of the good book series.........Swagger, Jack Reacher, etc, etc. I can't even get through the first 15 minutes of most.
if they would have done point of impact correctly, it could have been one of the best movies of the last 50 years. and yes, they screwed it up badly.
They tried to keep the climax showdown kinda the same but even then messed that up. And what about sidekick marrying a woman hostage he shot as an FBI sniper?
Yep.
top of bone hill running a bolt gun like a mofo is what all of us wanted.
Wont lie, Kate Mara was a good part of that movie.
She needs a sammich or 3, but that comes in time.
top of bone hill running a bolt gun like a mofo is what all of us wanted.
Wont lie, Kate Mara was a good part of that movie.
She needs a sammich or 3, but that comes in time.
Pale Horse Coming
book character - real life
Elmer Kaye - Elmer Keith
Jack O'Brien - Jack O'Conner
Ed McGriffin - Ed McGrivern
Andie Ryan - Audie Murphy
Charles Hatchison - Col. Charles Askin
Bill Jennings - Bill Jordan
Well done!!
It is one of my favorite Hunter books. Creepy. But a very satisfying ending!
I actually really like the Earl Swagger books.
Cheers,
Sirhr
ive not read them but is he supposed to be Bob's dad who got the MOH?
Yes.
Then the 'new' series is Swagger's son. Since Bob Lee is closing in on 80 ;-)
Sirhr
It really was, but by the time realized it, I could not bring myself to stop... didn't want to consider the time a total waste.
Yup. Jack Reacher was described as a large, physically imposing dude. And then, they cast 5'5" tom cruise to play him. Couldn't bring myself to watch it.
Same with John Grisham novels. If I've read the book, I won't watch the movie, and vice-versa.
What do any of you think about a gun culture book written by John Ross,’ Unintended Consequences’? Would make a great movie if done by the right producer and director. Current Government wouldn’t like it much. Has some of the same folks in it that Hunter has in his books.
so?All you guys know you jerked off more than once to Shooter quit acting like you didn't.......
I love and own and have read MANY times all of Hunter's Bob Lee Swagger books; I also have Master Sniper and The Day before Midnight.. Read and tossed Dirty White Boys.. These are all entertaining and enjoyable reads.. Also have and enjoy Shooter.
Hunter certainly is the most 'accurate' writer of firearms-related fiction that I have read.
Hunter certainly is the most 'accurate' writer of firearms-related fiction that I have read.
Thank you so much for this tidbit.
I've been reading and pulling the thread on Colonel Whelen
It looks like I've got a lot more reading to do...
I've now reached Alfred Nobel, confirming my disgust with English common law RE: Mr Nobel's experience with the phrase, "of the well-known soluble kind" in his patent defense v. cordite.
Thank you for opening this fascinating subject of which I apparently knew so little without scratching the surface.
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