MSG90 BUILD FOR FUN ACCURATE SHOOTING *** with pix

black_ump

Gunny Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Jul 16, 2007
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hello i have been on the forum for 5 years on and off, mainly getting info on my build and takieing in every ones opions on this style rifle, mainly negiving when you compair price per accurace, and i realize i could have saved time and money, how ever, i love hk's style and have always dreamed of this style rifle.

befor i get into what i would like to ask let me list my build components for every one

ptr91 receiver
trunion extension
douglas barrel with fluted chamber 1:11 twist 26" long threaded for muzzle brake .90 and not turned down to msg90 spec
stiffning rails
msg90 buttstock
msg90 lower

befor i start a pissing match with the bolt action guys, my number one goal was not to really shoot past 400 yard mainly cause i feel i personally wont be able to do that, i wanted somthing fun and awsome to shoot, i did the build my self and iam hoping to shoot at least on par with the semi auto 308 ar's
if i wanted to shoot better i would have went with an urbach build and used a factory hk barrel, but for what I want i think i selected the best parts and optics.

moving on, the trigger unit should be here with in a week or 2 tops, to test funcion i used a standered g3 trigger a year ago and every thing funtioned and the groups wernt that bad at 100 i was getting about 2" groups with 10 rounds and i loaded up a whole bunch of various rounds that i wanted to try when i got the money for the msg90 lower, so when it comes i will get a chance to start testing loads, i have loaded every thing from 210 down to 110 and various subsonic loads, now i dont really know where to start as far as picking loads for this rifle. so my first question here is

when deciding what to load where do i start ? do i just shoot a bunch of factory loads in various grains and which ever grain produces the best accuracy start making various loads for that grain ?

or do you reload depending on what your shooting goals are example, distance, target ie elk steel plates ect ect weather conditions ect ect i just have no idea where to start.

after deciding on the above the next is how does one proove their rifle, ok so i built this msg90 clone my self but how do i know i really did it all right, my guess it to shoot for accuracy and reliablity in all weather conditions

i have been watching untimate sniper serious on youtube, so i also compair my rifle to the various situations he describes

another question that i battle with is paint, do i paint the gun hk gloss black or a camo color, my goal is to have a field ready gun not a shelf display, and i see all the bolt guys prefer some sort of camo.

well in short my questions are

how do i start developing loads, how do i select which grain bullets to use and does every one have a standered do all reload are are their reloades for various "jobs"

should i camo or go gloss black ?

chime in with all your thoughs and opinions, but please refrain from, the " for the money you spent you could have got this or that" as i realize their are better builds out their, my total cost in this build was around 2000 + the time i have in building it

i did all the work my self even converted the factory plastic butt pad to a rubber one the rifle is still in the white so it is looking pretty rough sorry about that


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Re: MSG90 BUILD FOR FUN ACCURATE SHOOTING

Your future usage will limit you bullet selection somewhat. It sounds like you will be pretty open though (only up to 400 yards). I would recomend against really heavy bullets though (210gr, etc.) these things recoil like a sumunabish anyway (You did get a heavy duty buffer didn't you?).

Basically, buy components in small quantities and load up various grains with various bullets. i.e. load 20 rounds of 43.0 grains Varget with a 168 gr. bullet, then 20 rounds of 43.5 grains of Varget under the same bullet, 44.0, etc.

Do the same bullet with different loads. Then ladder test them to find the sweet spot. Then do the same thing with a different bullet.

Keep good records of everything, then find which combo works best.

Since this is not your run of the mill Precision rifle, I would say don't do cammo. If you wanted an HK style rifle, go with HK Black.
 
Re: MSG90 BUILD FOR FUN ACCURATE SHOOTING

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: J-Hon</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Shut the fuck up </div></div>

snipers hide guys are so friendly arnt they ?


gugubica - thanks for the heads up, iam leaning tword a camo scheam but ya gloss black will look good as well
 
Re: MSG90 BUILD FOR FUN ACCURATE SHOOTING

Your build sounds really nice please post some photos when you have a chance. As far as color goes I think camo sounds really cool. Unfortunately I am not much help as far as your ammo questions go I have never reloaded and I really do not know much about ammo. However, here is a quote that I recently recieved in relation to a question about the accuracy of the MSG90 on HKpro.com.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: G3Kurz;866300</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

The accuracy potential of the PSG1 and MSG90/90A1 is 85% dependent on the ammo used. HK maintains internal use only "Technical Terms of Delivery" (TTD) documents on all its products. These specs sometimes get released as minimum standards but actually they represent what all guns (100%) in a lot must pass and far exceeed what can be expected in actual use. I never recall as single HK of any type not smoking the minimum TDD specs, not one in 20+ years on the job. From personal experience I would return any new PSG1 or MSG90 that could not fire sub-MOA groups with an appropriate match round, like the Federal 308M Gold Medal match round, the Winchester Ranger or Hornady or Black Hills eqivilents. HK GmbH generally shoots the heavier and more readily available European 175 grain and greater rounds like those from RUAG, Dynamit Nobel or the like. My personal PSG1 demo gun at HK for almost 20 years could easily fire .5" and even better groups at 100 meters. My best 5-shot group with that rifle at 100 meters with 308M was .34" and it has easily 7500 rounds through the barrel, likely many more as I rec'd it used.

Keep the bore clean with strong solvents that remove jacket fouling as the unique tappered hammer forged barrel/bore design in these rifles can cause increased chamber/case pressures which can be problematic with soft commercial cases often used in non-MIL SPEC ammo and can cause ejection failures (caused by case set back) and even excessive bore pressure occurances.

Wish I could be more specific and provide detailed data. But ammo is the biggest factor in accuracy after operator proficiency and conditions.

G3Kurz</div></div>

If you are interested I recently got my MSG90 clone back from IGF and I will post a link to the thread below. Like you I did not have a 100% clone built but instead focused on the options that I felt would fit my needs best.

http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1564191#Post1564191

It sounds like you have a great project and I have no doubt it will be accuate once you find the ammo it likes. Good luck and pass along what you learn reguarding ammo selection to me if you would.
 
Re: MSG90 BUILD FOR FUN ACCURATE SHOOTING

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: The Great 308</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Your build sounds really nice please post some photos when you have a chance. As far as color goes I think camo sounds really cool. Unfortunately I am not much help as far as your ammo questions go I have never reloaded and I really do not know much about ammo. However, here is a quote that I recently recieved in relation to a question about the accuracy of the MSG90 on HKpro.com.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: G3Kurz;866300</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

The accuracy potential of the PSG1 and MSG90/90A1 is 85% dependent on the ammo used. HK maintains internal use only "Technical Terms of Delivery" (TTD) documents on all its products. These specs sometimes get released as minimum standards but actually they represent what all guns (100%) in a lot must pass and far exceeed what can be expected in actual use. I never recall as single HK of any type not smoking the minimum TDD specs, not one in 20+ years on the job. From personal experience I would return any new PSG1 or MSG90 that could not fire sub-MOA groups with an appropriate match round, like the Federal 308M Gold Medal match round, the Winchester Ranger or Hornady or Black Hills eqivilents. HK GmbH generally shoots the heavier and more readily available European 175 grain and greater rounds like those from RUAG, Dynamit Nobel or the like. My personal PSG1 demo gun at HK for almost 20 years could easily fire .5" and even better groups at 100 meters. My best 5-shot group with that rifle at 100 meters with 308M was .34" and it has easily 7500 rounds through the barrel, likely many more as I rec'd it used.

Keep the bore clean with strong solvents that remove jacket fouling as the unique tappered hammer forged barrel/bore design in these rifles can cause increased chamber/case pressures which can be problematic with soft commercial cases often used in non-MIL SPEC ammo and can cause ejection failures (caused by case set back) and even excessive bore pressure occurances.
b2
Wish I could be more specific and provide detailed data. But ammo is the biggest factor in accuracy after operator proficiency and conditions.

G3Kurz</div></div>

If you are interested I recently got my MSG90 clone back from IGF and I will post a link to the thread below. Like you I did not have a 100% clone built but instead focused on the options that I felt would fit my needs best.

http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1564191#Post1564191

It sounds like you have a great project and I have no doubt it will be accuate once you find the ammo it likes. Good luck and pass along what you learn reguarding ammo selection to me if you would.
</div></div>b


thanks for the info, i will pass on any info... the only thing i didnt do that was factory was.. the barrel and bolt and carrier and optics mounting system

other then that its all msg/psg
 
Re: MSG90 BUILD FOR FUN ACCURATE SHOOTING

These weapon systems beat the hell out of the brass, im not sure you want to work up a load for this weapon since you probably wont be able to use the brass again once its been fired. I might look for a good factory load and be done with it. GMM in a 168gr might do the trick.

mike
 
Re: MSG90 BUILD FOR FUN ACCURATE SHOOTING

ya out side of it messing up the brass are their any other things i should try out such as tests, function testing a semi auto ? how are you 10x scope guys doing shooting moa, i can hardly see a 1 inch squair at 100 and 200 lol forget about it.

any one else shoot a semi auto for precision that has any tips they would like to share, such as shooting, reloading ect ect, what trigger weights are you using, how do you maintain a precision trigger, what lub's ect ect
 
Re: MSG90 BUILD FOR FUN ACCURATE SHOOTING

If you can barely see a 1" square at 100 yards I think you should look to upgrading your optics. I have no problem seeing (let's not talk about hitting) 1/2" dots at 100 with my SWFA 3-9.
 
Re: MSG90 BUILD FOR FUN ACCURATE SHOOTING

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: coldboremiracle</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: black_ump</div><div class="ubbcode-body">i have a falcon menace in 10x and it just seems hard to see a post a note ate 100 yds </div></div>

Ouch. </div></div>

i will note this, i have not had the rifle to the range in over a year but from what i can remember it was a bit hard to see. but like i said its been over a year and at that time i was shooting in the winter so jack frost was making me pull the trigger alot faster then i wanted to
 
Re: MSG90 BUILD FOR FUN ACCURATE SHOOTING

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: black_ump</div><div class="ubbcode-body">i have a falcon menace in 10x and it just seems hard to see a post a note ate 100 yds </div></div>

shocked.gif
For real??

Man, if you can't see a post-it at 100yd with a x10 scope I'd say either it is time to buy a new scope or to go get your eyes checked!
 
Re: MSG90 BUILD FOR FUN ACCURATE SHOOTING

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BasraBoy</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: black_ump</div><div class="ubbcode-body">i have a falcon menace in 10x and it just seems hard to see a post a note ate 100 yds </div></div>

shocked.gif
For real??

Man, if you can't see a post-it at 100yd with a x10 scope I'd say either it is time to buy a new scope or to go get your eyes checked! </div></div>

maybe i should refrain what i said, i dont see the post a note as well as i would like to is maybe a better way of putting it, i see it dont get me wrong but i would like to see it a little better then what iam currently seeing it
 
Re: MSG90 BUILD FOR FUN ACCURATE SHOOTING

I have a soft spot for HK's so I am glad you are taking this on. As for the 10X scope I would not be so concerned about that 10X is plenty for this rifle, same as if it were an AR. Many a 1000 yard competition has been done with irons. You need to adapt to that.

I would like some more info on the rubber butt pad.

As to triggers I have the old school Williams set trigger on my 91 and it rocks. I would not hesitate for a second to send your trigger group to them. It will absolutely change the way the rifle shoots 100%. Factory HK triggers (other than a PSG1 trigger group of course) are the worst triggers I have ever pulled.

As to ammo I think I would try a few boxes of the standard match stuff like FGMM 168's and 175's, then try some of the Hornady TAP rounds. If you find something that works you can not only copy it but also have the ability to get some store bought if your reloaded stuff is not out at a range etc.
 
Re: MSG90 BUILD FOR FUN ACCURATE SHOOTING

thanks all for the advince and kind words.... the more i am getting back into this ( now that i can afford the psg trigger ) the more i want to make the rifle shoot accuratly maybe more so then the ar10 guys lol
 
Re: MSG90 BUILD FOR FUN ACCURATE SHOOTING

well iam not rich, but i once worked on a guys msg90 clone, and i shot an msg90 triggr group, and from the first pull of the trigger i just knew i had to have it... so thats the reason iam so set for it