Muzzle brake, the more holes, the better?

[thexman]

Not sure what's the difference between these two, except one is longer, heavier and more holes than the other.

Any suggestions? Thanks in advance.

https://patriotvalleyarms.com/jet-blast-muzzle-brake/
https://patriotvalleyarms.com/shockwave-muzzle-brake/

 

[Deleted member 10043]

Who told you to look at brakes?

 

[thexman]

Who told you to look at brakes?

What do you mean?

Can you explain the difference between these two muzzle brakes?

 

[Deleted member 10043]

One has more holes than the others. Wait a while. The Snipers Hide Girl Scout Pack #69 will be awake about 0900 to tell you all about brakes. Allow a little time for makeup and hair.

 

[spife7980]

Not sure what's the difference between these two, except one is longer, heavier and more holes than the other.

Any suggestions? Thanks in advance.

https://patriotvalleyarms.com/jet-blast-muzzle-brake/
https://patriotvalleyarms.com/shockwave-muzzle-brake/

The sidewinder is larger and longer with more ports, it is geared towards running it on magnums etc. The bigger the blast the bigger the brake to tame it.

Its not exactly a linear relation ship of port numbers to effectiveness, total area, shape, angle etc also comes into account but as a general rule thats how it works. The more area there is for the gases to push forwards against the less it will recoil backwards into you.

 

[thexman]

The sidewinder is larger and longer with more ports, it is geared towards running it on magnums etc. The bigger the blast the bigger the brake to tame it.

Its not exactly a linear relation ship of port numbers to effectiveness, total area, shape, angle etc also comes into account but as a general rule thats how it works. The more area there is for the gases to push forwards against the less it will recoil backwards into you.

Thank you for the explanation. That makes sense and easier to understand the difference.

 

[Steel head]

One has more holes than the others. Wait a while. The Snipers Hide Girl Scout Pack #69 will be awake about 0900 to tell you all about brakes. Allow a little time for makeup and hair.

Lol
Your relentless!

Op,,,, more holes can be more effective as long as you have the gas volume to utilize them.
A big 5 port is kinda wasted on a 223 and a 1 or 2 port might not be the best option for a 300 Norma Magnum.

 

[thexman]

Lol
Your relentless!

Op,,,, more holes can be more effective as long as you have the gas volume to utilize them.
A big 5 port is kinda wasted on a 223 and a 1 or 2 port might not be the best option for a 300 Norma Magnum.

Yeah, you are right. I see someone explained in this way, not sure about the accuracy, but the figures give some idea about the number of holes/ports.

In an ideal brake it is a trade off between size and efficiency. Approximately 2/3 of the remaining potential work is done by each subsequent port.

1 port = (about) 66% potential efficiency
2 ports = (about) 66% + 22% (2/3 of the remaining 33%) or 88% potential efficiency
3 ports = (about) 66% + 22% + 7.3% (2/3 of the remaining 11%) or 95.3% potential efficiency
4 ports = (about) 66% + 22% + 7.3% + 3.1% (2/3 of the remaining 4.7%) or 98.4% potential efficiency

Since the theoretical limit of efficiency for a muzzle brake is about 80% it is easy to see why proper muzzle brakes are typically 2, 3 or 4 port.

A 2 port brake would be about a 70% reduction in felt recoil (maximum), A 3 port brake about 76% reduction and a 4 port brake about 79% reduction. However, both weight and length of the device would continue to increase with each subsequent port.

It is generally accepted that 2 - 4 ports is a good trade off in weight, length and efficiency. It would be hard to argue that a 70% reduction in felt recoil is not adequate in a .223. Equally hard to argue would be that striving for a 79% reduction in felt recoil on a large magnum round is going to far. But in the end you are only talking about a 9% difference in felt recoil between the two.


And from the description/specification on PVA website, I kind of suspecting the bigger the caliber, the longer/more holes it requires. Thank you for pointing me out on this.

 

[Erno86]

The brake with more holes will clear out your sinuses better from concussion than the one with fewer holes.?

 

[Lynn Jr]

The rearmost hole or port closest to the action does the most work so you want it to be the largest.
The more surface area you have gives the gases more area to impinge upon.

 

[Mortalpawn]

The Precision Rifle blog has a bunch of articles on Muzzle Brakes - my favorite is this one on "ability to stay on target" but they have a number of other field test articles as well as what the pros are shooting.
https://precisionrifleblog.com/2015/07/25/muzzle-brakes-ability-to-stay-on-target/

Based on their field test results I would not say that the number of ports is the dominant factor on the effectiveness of the brake. A number of design factors come into play when we look at actual performance.

 

[thexman]

The Precision Rifle blog has a bunch of articles on Muzzle Brakes - my favorite is this one on "ability to stay on target" but they have a number of other field test articles as well as what the pros are shooting.
https://precisionrifleblog.com/2015/07/25/muzzle-brakes-ability-to-stay-on-target/

Based on their field test results I would not say that the number of ports is the dominant factor on the effectiveness of the brake. A number of design factors come into play when we look at actual performance.

Thanks.

Tried the PVA Shockwave with 4 holes, the recoil reduction is really obvious comparing to non-muzzle brake.

 

[b6graham]

The Precision Rifle blog has a bunch of articles on Muzzle Brakes - my favorite is this one on "ability to stay on target" but they have a number of other field test articles as well as what the pros are shooting.
https://precisionrifleblog.com/2015/07/25/muzzle-brakes-ability-to-stay-on-target/

Based on their field test results I would not say that the number of ports is the dominant factor on the effectiveness of the brake. A number of design factors come into play when we look at actual performance.

not exactly relevant compared to the designs we use today. big performance difference in the last 4 years. but every muzzle brake thread has to have these old things posted up

 

[Mortalpawn]

As I mentioned there are a bunch of articles on the site - here's the more recent one if you want the latest:
https://precisionrifleblog.com/2019/02/02/best-suppressor/

Many designs like the APA Little B*tard are still very popular (the most popular in fact), though the Area 419 and Impact Precision brakes have been growing in numbers in PRS.

 

[Milo 2.5]

Many designs like the APA Little B*tard are still very popular (the most popular in fact), though the Area 419 and Impact Precision brakes have been growing in numbers in PRS.

^^^^^this
I usually don't do this, but try a self timing Area 419 Hellfire. I had dashers built for 2 young buddies, 9 & 12, used hellfires(6mm).
The 9yr old has no rifle fundamentals yet, but is spotting his shots at 250( closest steel we have) and out. Berger hybrid at 2930fps, proof carbon barrels, the brake just flat shuts it down.

 

[sirmixalot]

anyone know why the barrett m82a1 in 416 won't accommodate the 50 arrowhead style brake?

 

[180ls1]

Yeah, you are right. I see someone explained in this way, not sure about the accuracy, but the figures give some idea about the number of holes/ports.

In an ideal brake it is a trade off between size and efficiency. Approximately 2/3 of the remaining potential work is done by each subsequent port.

1 port = (about) 66% potential efficiency
2 ports = (about) 66% + 22% (2/3 of the remaining 33%) or 88% potential efficiency
3 ports = (about) 66% + 22% + 7.3% (2/3 of the remaining 11%) or 95.3% potential efficiency
4 ports = (about) 66% + 22% + 7.3% + 3.1% (2/3 of the remaining 4.7%) or 98.4% potential efficiency

Since the theoretical limit of efficiency for a muzzle brake is about 80% it is easy to see why proper muzzle brakes are typically 2, 3 or 4 port.

A 2 port brake would be about a 70% reduction in felt recoil (maximum), A 3 port brake about 76% reduction and a 4 port brake about 79% reduction. However, both weight and length of the device would continue to increase with each subsequent port.

It is generally accepted that 2 - 4 ports is a good trade off in weight, length and efficiency. It would be hard to argue that a 70% reduction in felt recoil is not adequate in a .223. Equally hard to argue would be that striving for a 79% reduction in felt recoil on a large magnum round is going to far. But in the end you are only talking about a 9% difference in felt recoil between the two.


And from the description/specification on PVA website, I kind of suspecting the bigger the caliber, the longer/more holes it requires. Thank you for pointing me out on this.

I know this is old. But Any idea how OD effects this?

How would a 1" 2 port compare to a 0.67" 3 port?

 

[iceng]

Ok, thats a really good question. Port efficency is a huge factor here, also, what are you trying to achieve with that port.

In design its not just "OMG super duper recoil reduction". Yes recoil reduction is an aim, but not the sole purpose.

On face value its hard to directly answer. What i will say is "on face value, larger diameter brake will have more benefit".

BUT. Are 3 ports same volume, or a percentage of other ? Lengths of ports ? Etc.. there is a HUGE amount of information here.

Think of cars and power. Horse power curve. Yes you can make an engine which produces 600hp. Its how it develops that power. A small 4cyl car can produce 600hp, as can a freightliner truck. Which can tow a trailer across the country ? Thats torque.

What about the ability to get to that powet range ? Idle to 600hp. RPM range. A rotary can do 600hp, but takes like 10krpm. A diesel truck csn do it at 2000rpm.

Know the big mining trucks ? Catapillar 793. 69litre diesel. To increase power output, you put your foot on the accelerator, BUT the engines DOES NOT increase rpm, instead the ECU changes the fuel load and turbo to change power output. This changes the efficency of the motor and output.

Muzzle brakes are the same. What are you chasing, or designing to conquer ? Not all brakes are equal...


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