My dissapointment with GAP

bsp212

bsp212

Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Sep 15, 2007
468
0
50
Porter, TX
#1
First, before all of you dogpile me, I am not trashing their quality of work. They build some outstanding rifles and have satisfied many people, I'm just not one of them.

I sent a Rem 700 bolt to them to have a M-16 extractor installed after speaking with them and being quoted same day turnaround service. I followed the tracking info and they received it on 9/13. One week later I called to confirm they were actually in possession of it because I had not heard anything. They had it so no big deal, I was told they would get it out that week. I followed up 1 1/2 weeks later after no contact and was told it wasn't done and they would put it on George's bench so it would sureley get done then. No big deal again, that was Monday. Today I call close to the close of business because of no contact and sure enough, it wasn't done. Next Tuesday would have been the one month mark for same day turnaround work. Needless to say, they are shipping my bolt back unfinished.

Like I said before, not trashing them, just voicing what I feel is a legitimate complaint. Also, before anyone else says anything, I PM'd George and it went 48 hours unanswered.

bsp212
 
#3
Re: My dissapointment with GAP

they are traditionally known for their standard of excellence in their work, not for their fast turnaround times.

has ANYONE gotten same day service from GAP? granted they quoted you but... no gunsmithing saga ive ever heard included same day service.
 
#4
Re: My dissapointment with GAP

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 051F</div><div class="ubbcode-body">they are traditionally known for their standard of excellence in their work, not for their turnaround times.

has ANYONE gotten same day service from GAP? </div></div>

Your right but, if they told him one day, thats how long it should have taken.
 
#6
Re: My dissapointment with GAP

I would be patient and let them finish the job and not burn any bridges. Mistakes happen especially with small work. At a business who is swamped with calls and work.
 
#7
Re: My dissapointment with GAP

I might get trashed too, but I was also recently disappointed in them when they said they wouldn't install a new Surgeon DBM on my GAP built rifle.

Then I called Surgeon up and they told me "we only work on our own rifles".

I guess success means you can turn down the "little jobs".

I'm not mad.......just disappointed.
 
#9
Re: My dissapointment with GAP

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 051F</div><div class="ubbcode-body">they are traditionally known for their standard of excellence in their work, not for their fast turnaround times.

has ANYONE gotten same day service from GAP? granted they quoted you but... no gunsmithing saga ive ever heard included same day service. </div></div>

Honestly, I wasn't expecting same day service but what would have gone into a month was excessive in my book. I think I excercised my patience to their fullest. There are alot of people who would have trashed them on the net by day 2.
 
#11
Re: My dissapointment with GAP

I sent them my rifle to install a DBM. Had it back in little over a week. Although that was over 2 years ago. On the otherhand it took them a year to build me a 7mmWSM. To be fair I just sent them the action and George got all the parts for me. Also this was several years ago. After that I decided I really didn't want to wait that long so I upgraded my lathe and now I do my own work. Much quicker turn-around.
 
#12
Re: My dissapointment with GAP

I had a bolt Knob installed and trigger adjusted. 3 days from shipped back to me. Like stated before its worth the wait. My rifle has been there for sometime. But I know it will be right when it returns.
 
#13
Re: My dissapointment with GAP

I've stopped sending work to names, because of attitude,.. an lip. The local guy that I an others are useing now, can stand with any name at 1/3 the price. Turn around is weekly on small stuff and the last complete build he did for my point man was 2 weeks. YMMV
 
#14
Re: My dissapointment with GAP

Assuming that it went down as described I would be upset as well. If someone tells me "Same Day" I expect that. If there is a plausible reason why it was delayed I understand. However, repeated delays may not be acceptable.

Sometimes a business gets so busy that jobs fall through the cracks. It's not ideal, but it happens.

It would be unfair to the rest of us if only success stories were the ones posted. Stories like this need to be relayed for two reasons. First, it gives the next guy a better idea of what to expect. Second, if YOUR job is delayed you can more accurately decide how to address it.

Not a big deal. I am similarly frustrated right now because I bought a patrol pack from someone. I needed the pack for a school I am CURRENTLY attending. I have another pack that does the job, but not as well as the new one would. So I closed the deal after confirming that the seller COULD get it to me in the timeframe I needed AND paying extra for shipping. I am now a week into the school, did one of our FTX's today and I still do not have the pack I paid for. I now feel that I am getting the runaround about where it's at. If it's not here by tomorrow I will not have it for the final week of the school, and then there would be no reason for me to have bought it.

So yea, I can relate.....although with custom gun parts, I just plan on waiting awhile no matter what the quote. If it comes back sooner it's a nice surprise.
 
#16
Re: My dissapointment with GAP

I can't imagine anyone telling you one day for that process. Maybe to insert a roll pin or something but not cut and fit a new extractor.

A month would be fair. But if it took longer I would be under the impression that I understood it would.

My gunsmith here in MN tells me a month. I'm pleased as punch when I get it back in two weeks.
 
#17
Re: My dissapointment with GAP

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: criver</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Not a big enough deal to call them out on the net........ Your call to take your business elsewhere.
</div></div>

Disclaimer!! - My post has nothing to do with GAP

Oh, I don't know, there's nothing wrong with making mention of any company when they don't deliver. If he posted that he was THRILLED because he did get one day turnaround then you wouldn't post that his happiness was uncalled for on the net, would you?

Companies get and lose reputations from customers that share feedback, both positive and negative. There isn't a thing wrong with sharing the negative. Maybe if guys shared negative feedback more often some things like HD Rifles and LTM Finishing wouldn't get as far along as they did before others realized there were issues.

Again...not saying GAP is going the way of HD or LTM, but I am saying there's no shame in sharing your experiences with other shooters on the net.
 
#18
Re: My dissapointment with GAP

Certainly this is not the normal for GAP, but yeah there's no reason he should not bring up this issue. I probably would not have expected next day turn around, but at the same time I think he was MORE than patient, and he made multiple contacts and was repeatedly told delivery times that were not met. If we only hear the good about companies then we are no better than the paid for magazine "reviews" that no one listens to anymore.

Sadly in this day and age delivery promises are a joke most of the time. I've had several custom builds done and not one has ever been done on time, on average I'd bet at least 50% over the stated delivery time. Even when I was absolutely adamant that it had to be done by X date with the custom shop owner and if they couldn't guarantee it would be done don't take the job.....they still didn't get it done after saying it would be no problem. If I do that on one of my contracts I'm not going to get paid.

Customers these days have gone totally soft. They don't care how long it takes, they don't care if it's done right the first time and it's simply allowed companies to slack off. That and the internet has become a joke to get the word out about problems and bad companies because as soon as someone posts something negative about established companies they are piled on and crucified as a liar, having a hidden agenda, repeating a problem that they read somewhere else and isn't there, etc. etc. That or they are told they are unreasonable, that's just the way it is, and if you want to be part of the cool X company club you just deal with them not getting shit done right or on time.
 
#19
Re: My dissapointment with GAP

i believe Jasons statement to be very true. And ill echo what others have said, if im quoted a 1 day turnaround, thats what id expect. If some problem arose hey no biggie just keep me informed. But the positive and negative feedback a company gets is great, it brings the company down from a mythical company to a real world company in a realtime market. It gives the shooting community something to base decisions off of. If negative feedback never got posted i would venture to say alot of you guys would be pissed. You would read the millions of posts about how good so an so's turnaround time was, i was quoted 3 months and it got here in 2 months. If you never read the bad you would only be making a blind decision and would be highly upset because so and so got there ______ in 3 days and it took X company 2 weeks to get the same thing done for me,but this is a very reasonable response, albeit it could have been alot worse than what was posted, again this is not directed at GAP, just the whole firearms business in general.
 
#20
Re: My dissapointment with GAP

You should be disappointed. That's crappy service and they shouldn't send it back just because you keep bugging them to get it done. Yea, you're gonna get flamed and so I am because most SH members swing from GAP's nut sack.
 
#21
Re: My dissapointment with GAP

sandwarrior,

this job is 2hrs on the outside and you think that it is not reasonable to expect same day turnaround? if you cant provide it, dont say it. i would much rather hear that they will get to it when they can than be dissappointed EVERY DAY when it doesnt show up. the local lesser known smiths is where its at in my opinion. no one is reinventing the wheel or the rifle and it certainly isnt rocket surgery. there are THOUSANDS of people who dont even call themselves gunsmiths who are fully capable of building the best rifle you have ever had in your hands.

chuck
 
#22
Re: My dissapointment with GAP

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Parkincense</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You should be disappointed. That's crappy service and they shouldn't send it back just because you keep bugging them to get it done. Yea, you're gonna get flamed and so I am because most SH members swing from GAP's nut sack. </div></div>

grin.gif
 
#23
Re: My dissapointment with GAP

Definition of good customer service: Say what you're going to do. Do it. Shit happens. Call, email, PM, <span style="font-weight: bold">COMMUNICATE</span> what has changed and why and what the customers new expectaion should be.

Combine this with good work and you will make people very happy.

This is what I do with my business and what I expect from any business I'm going to give my money to. I've had to reeducate a few people.
grin.gif


John
 
#25
Re: My dissapointment with GAP

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cruze5</div><div class="ubbcode-body">your not the only one disapointed in GAP currently </div></div>

Gay post...to half-bash you should elaborate or keep it in the vault. To me that is unfounded slander....as posted.



I work on customer's equipment and trucks all day at work and if anything I will tell them longer than I belive it will take....just to have a built in cushion...nothing ever goes right and that way they aren't planning on having it back and being dissapointed.

This is a bash directly at GAP if the OP is correct.

If whoever answered the phone said it would be on Georges desk and promptly processed then the communication at GAP is flawed. My manager did the same shit all the time....promised a customer that whenever he got to the shop a mechanic would be waiting.....and a mechanic would work all weekend if need be......then the asshole would come out and ask if anybody wanted to stay late or work the weekend.

It makes 100% sense to tell the customer that you will call them back with an actual timeframe....then that issue needs to be priority....untill the customer is informed of the forward progress.

Not trying to give George a buisness lesson but that is the way that I belive a customer should be treated......maybe it was all the person answering the phones.....so I always write the name down of the person promising the world on the phone!!!
 
#26
Re: My dissapointment with GAP

I agree 100% if you are given a time of completion, it should be done or at the very least deserve contact to let you know where things stand and why.


However, I must play devil's advocate. I've had custom work done on a few different platforms. And sad to say, this is the nature of the custom work beast. In my experience, minor work like this usually get's put aside until they can do a whole bunch at the same time. Time is money, and you are at their mercy. If you think this is bad, go over to HKpro and read some stories about Urbach's work and wait times. If I recall correctly, Richard Heinie had a wait list of like 5 to 7 years until he stopped taking any new work.


If you want their name, you have to play the game. As it was in the beginning, is now, and ever shall be.
 
#27
Re: My dissapointment with GAP

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dontstrokeme</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cruze5</div><div class="ubbcode-body">your not the only one disapointed in GAP currently </div></div>

Gay post...to half-bash you should elaborate or keep it in the vault. To me that is unfounded slander....as posted.
</div></div>

Giving an opinion about something/someone is never slander. You need an untrue fact for slander.
 
#28
Re: My dissapointment with GAP

Well frickin doubt I guess....saying that other people are having problems but not saying where/when/who/what is lame.....it implies that GAP has other ongoing issues and then does not describe them.....unfounded___________......you fill in the blank, I hated english!!!
laugh.gif
 
#29
Re: My dissapointment with GAP

Joe, just because someone posts that not everyone is happy with GAP currently is not slander, its not a gay post, and its not a half bash.
Many folks don't want to/will not air their dirty laundry, but still want to provide feedback to their friends.

I'm personally growing tired of people "swinging on vendors' nutsacks" even though they have no personal experience with the vendors, just a penchance for whichever forum's flavor of koolaid.

Steelhead makes a valid point. Requesting a part be used in a custom build only to be told "no" is rediculous. I can understand a builder saying "we recommend you use such and such", but custom is custom. Most will do whatever a customer wants if the customer insists, as long as its safe or possible-to not do so is a sign that they are either too busy for work, or too full of themselves for their own good.
I'd be pissed if I decided I wanted a Surgeon DBM on a GAP and couldn't get it!
 
#30
Re: My dissapointment with GAP

for the record, i think bsp got sort of a raw deal. a day shouldnt turn into a month. barring some sort of emergency situation at GAP, whoever is in charge of triage when it comes to incoming work should have a better grasp on quoting turnaround.

could have somethin to do with living in an imperfect world...

as for turning down custom work... a bike shop told me type A brakes would not work on type B handlebars that i needed type C brakes, i knew enough about measuring that it was a matter of math that type A would fit type B... so i bought type A and have been using them happily for a long time.

moral of the story is i never went back to that bike shop and do not recommend them to my friends. i hate being treated like a noob based on what little information a business can gather about me.
 
#32
Re: My dissapointment with GAP

I'm not sure who told you a day turnarround, for that I can understand your frustration. The only job that is same day is a bolt knob. I'm guessing Kerry misinformed you. Badger extractors require machining the boltface, brazing in a fitted coller then machining in the extractor cut. We do it on our CNC and I am the only one that does these and I have been out of town , currently in NM till next Thursday. It will be done upon my return. Our normal turnarround for a job like this is 2 months. And it's definatly more than a 2 hr job if done correct. Again Im sorry Someone told you a day that is incorrect.
 
#33
Re: My dissapointment with GAP

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: selfbowhunter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">sandwarrior,

this job is 2hrs on the outside and you think that it is not reasonable to expect same day turnaround? if you cant provide it, dont say it. i would much rather hear that they will get to it when they can than be dissappointed EVERY DAY when it doesnt show up. the local lesser known smiths is where its at in my opinion. no one is reinventing the wheel or the rifle and it certainly isnt rocket surgery. there are THOUSANDS of people who dont even call themselves gunsmiths who are fully capable of building the best rifle you have ever had in your hands.

chuck</div></div>

You are right on the fact that many guys can build an outstanding rifle, .. probably right in your hometown. The issue is when you all of a sudden get the volume that GAP has, and to schedule your project takes more time than what the project takes to do. What I mean by my statement is when you have that volume, there's no way you can tell someone you'll have it tomorrow. I've never done that job so I can't say. There may have been a worn out bit or something. But a responsible smith won't tell you tomorrow when he's got 100 full and just as many 1/2 sized projects in hand in front of you. I know I wouldn't believe it if it was told to me. Whether the work takes a day or two, you've still got to allow for the ones in front of you. And, by the number of folks who talk about going to GAP I'd say they were busy. No chance for a one day turnaround.

On the flip side. Yes, I'd be pissed if I went to someone I knew could do the job and they didn't seem to have all that much work going on and it still took a month before they said they were too busy. I'm not saying wait forever, but I'm saying the customer has to be reasonable to go to someone that busy and expect turnaround time like that.
 
#34
Re: My dissapointment with GAP

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: palma</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dontstrokeme</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cruze5</div><div class="ubbcode-body">your not the only one disapointed in GAP currently </div></div>

Gay post...to half-bash you should elaborate or keep it in the vault. To me that is unfounded slander....as posted.
</div></div>

Giving an opinion about something/someone is never slander. You need an untrue fact for slander. </div></div>
I agree.

Also, I am sure that George is all about honesty and customer service, and will be happy to take care of the OP should he reconsider having GAP complete this work for him.
I have read a huge number of George's posts and he always leaves me with the impression he is both a nice guy and an honest and responsible businessman. I have never done business with his company but I am sure he would treat me as I wish to be treated, within reason, and with allowances for natural human imperfection. I cannot imagine getting a different impression from the posts I have seen here over the years.

Customer service will never mean perfection in every transaction, so long as people are involved. I hope my customers judge me for my dedication to always make things right in the end. That is how true customer service should be defined. I hope it is how I am judged.
 
#35
Re: My dissapointment with GAP

It is upsetting if you were quoted something and you didn't get it, however:
You just had the guy who is the owner now come on here and explain.
I have to be happy with an owner who is in touch with the guys who are buying his products. PM him, give him a chance and see what comes out.
May be better. No issues with airing frustrations I think.
Chad
 
#37
Re: My dissapointment with GAP

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: chad3</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have to be happy with an owner who is in touch with the guys who are buying his products. </div></div>
 
#38
Re: My dissapointment with GAP

In the Remington boltface, there is a recess or a trough inside the "ring of steel" that encases the case rim. This recess is for the factory spring steel extractor. When that extractor is removed, this recess must be "filled" with a soldered-in bushing, that is then machined to final dimensions.

Going to a Sako or other extractor requires the filling of the recess to keep case rims from hanging up in the recess.
 
#39
Re: My dissapointment with GAP

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Parkincense</div><div class="ubbcode-body">...GAP's nut sack.</div></div>

I might buy a rifle accessory that says that.
 
#40
Re: My dissapointment with GAP

not swinging from any nutsack and haven't ever gotten work done by GAP.

But the man did come on here and say there was a mistake in communication, he's been out and it will be taken care of upon his return.

that's stand-up in my book.
 
#41
Re: My dissapointment with GAP

Thanks to all for taking the time to read and respond to this post. I brought it to the forum as an example of how miscommunication and lack of communication can allow something to easily fall through the cracks - and I believe this is all it was. Everyone will make a mistake from time to time and reputations are made on how these mistakes are corrected.

George has offered to make things right and will have opportunity to do so.
 
#42
Re: My dissapointment with GAP

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: spot69221</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Parkincense</div><div class="ubbcode-body">...GAP's nut sack.</div></div>

I might buy a rifle accessory that says that. </div></div>

This could be a new product opportunity for a bean bag rear rest.....You may be on to something!
 
#43
Re: My dissapointment with GAP

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Customers these days have gone totally soft. They don't care how long it takes, they don't care if it's done right the first time and it's simply allowed companies to slack off. That and the internet has become a joke to get the word out about problems and bad companies because as soon as someone posts something negative about established companies they are piled on and crucified as a liar, having a hidden agenda, repeating a problem that they read somewhere else and isn't there, etc. etc. That or they are told they are unreasonable, that's just the way it is, and if you want to be part of the cool X company club you just deal with them not getting shit done right or on time.</div></div>

+1 googleplex

Props to George for stepping up to the plate for the OP.
 
#44
Re: My dissapointment with GAP

IMHO, if you have a "Name" rifle builder or pistol builder for that matter, expect at least 6 weeks. on a total build budget a year. most of the wait is on a stock maker, etc. it sucks but it's all part of the experience. Also IMO, Gap is into building "stock" tacticale guns to sell allot of them. If you want to deviate be prepared to wait a year. On my last build it was 11 months most of that was waiting on a famous stock maker to get to mine done. Me thinks some of the "name" builders have gotten too famous and never even see the rifle "you" get.
 
#45
Re: My dissapointment with GAP

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Buzzsaw</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> most of the wait is on a stock maker, etc. it sucks but it's all part of the experience.... On my last build it was 11 months most of that was waiting on a famous stock maker to get to mine done. Me thinks some of the "name" builders have gotten too famous and never even see the rifle "you" get. </div></div>

I beg to differ. I've waited that long (twice) after supplying all the parts, including the stock. The wait is because of the number of guns in front of you. The stock wait is just a convenient excuse.
 
#46
Re: My dissapointment with GAP

When I ordered my GAP I was told that it was going to be 4 weeks till it was completed. I am in Iraq and wasnt going to be home for about 8 weeks so it was not a big deal for the wait. When I got home I called about the rifle to follow up and was told it was ready. While confirming my build there was some problems. So it was corrected and 2 weeks later I called back. Said there was some more delays. About 5 weeks later I got a call stating my rifle had been done for approximately 2 months and they have been unable to contact me and the rifle would be sold if I didnt return their call. So I called again and it still wasnt ready.. LOL so about 2 weeks later it was done and I received the build. It was a comical situation... But I wasnt mad or disappointed... Im not at home most of the time so it wasnt a big deal. The rifle is top quality though... Super smooth action and the best bedding job I have ever seen... I will buy another rifle from them, just knowingly that I have to stay on top of them. Oh I did ask about a discount on my next rifle for all the confusion and they laughed at me... They said, "why would you get a discount"? LOL.
 
#47
Re: My dissapointment with GAP

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 051F</div><div class="ubbcode-body">no gunsmithing saga ive ever heard included same day service. </div></div>

Yes I have, Mark Pharr from Tumbleweed quoted me same day, got it done same day.
 
#48
Re: My dissapointment with GAP

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 81STFACP</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Yes I have, Mark Pharr from Tumbleweed quoted me same day, got it done same day. </div></div>

I have as well, and the services were delivered as promised on a couple of occasions by a couple different smiths.
 
#49
Re: My dissapointment with GAP

I hate to pour salt in the wound but when I can't do something on my rifle I bring it down to George and get same 30 min. service, LOL. On the serious note I don't know how the GAP business is ran but I know him outside of rifles and he is a stand up guy. So I wouldn't take it personal it's only business. I bet given the chance for him to make it up you will be more than pleased. BTW I don't own a rifle by GAP therefor I do not swing from any ones sack.
cool.gif
. SPM
 
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