My Experiences with my LMT MWS .308

[Centuriator]

I purchased my LMT MWS from LMT directly when they had them on sale for $1900. I've had it now for a number of months and have run a fairly wide variety of ammo through it, shooting from the bench, from a bipod. I got a 20" SS barrel for it, the DMR stock, a Geissele SSA-E trigger and put a full sized Fat Bastard Brake on it. I got rid of my Harris and went with an Accu-TAC FC-G2 bipod (huge improvement!). I am using a Nightforce NX82.5-20.

I've been focusing on my fundamentals very carefully, really learning to work the trigger, avoiding feathering the trigger, etc. etc.

Long and short of it is: With even the crappiest 30 year old MIL SPEC stuff from Maylasia, I'm banging 6" steel plates at 400 yards, consistently and having a blast with the steel targets I have access to from 300 to 400 yards, various sizes.

I've tested it with Federal GMM 175 and 165 gr SMKs, several Hornady and Lapua loads and several less expensive mil spec stuff, but ... the very best groups I've been able to get so far are with .... PRIME AMMO 175 SMK. My best five shot group, repeated half a dozen times on a nice day (little/no wind, 70 degrees at 100 yards.. was .37 and .38 MOA.

For me, I find this very satisfying given all considerations and I'm enjoying the challenge of increasing my speed and accuracy against the steel targets at 400 spread out over a 50 yard line of targets various shapes and sizes. The muzzle brake very effectively gets me back on target very quickly and I'm able to get the steel swinging shooting as rapidly as I can.

Here's a pic of my set up.

 

[Centuriator]

 

[Lurp06x]

Glad to here you are liking your LMT. I just ordered one and reading as much as I can about the rifle till it gets here.

 

[Bender]

Do they make it in a 6.5?

 

[Centuriator]

Do they make it in a 6.5?

Yes, in 6.5 CR.

6.5 Long Range - LMT

6.5 Creedmoor MLK6520-MARS

lmtdefense.com

 

[Bender]

Damn. Now I need $2k

 

[Centuriator]

Well, that 6.5 I showed is going to set you back over $3,200.

I noticed a guy here has a LMT MWS 16" for sale in the PX at a decent price, under $2,000, I just saw it a few minutes ago. LMT does not run sales on their complete rifles very often.

https://www.snipershide.com/shooting/threads/wts-lmt-mws-308-16-complete-rifle.6972107/

You can buy a 6.5 barrel for it, but it won't have the DMR stock, etc.

 

[Gasgun]

Happy to hear that the Prime 175 SMK is the most accurate in your gun.
I just picked up 1K rounds of it to try out of my MWS.
I’ve got the 16” SS barrel on mine, but I’m hoping for similar results.

 

[Centuriator]

The PRIME is pricey, but ... sure fun to get as tight a group as possible. I'll look forward to hearing how you do with the PRIME ammo. I just picked up a few 20 round boxes to try it out. Will have to get more.

 

[longrange2]

Hard to find these in stock anywhere at a decent price, especially since I’d prefer an M-lok forend. I also really like the MARS-H lowers. I’m thinking about picking up a MARS-H lower and piecing together the upper I want.

 

[Centuriator]

I didn't think I'd like the LMT forend it came with ... but, works great, holds everything I need, which was the pic rail it came with for mounting my bipod. Looks to me like they are only providing MLOK handguards for complete rifles now anyway.

And yes, the MARS-H lower is terrific.

If I wanted one right now, I'd do what you are thinking of doing: get the lower and buy the upper for it I select.

LMT have their hands full fill mil contracts, so supply of everything on the commercial side is spotty.

 

[longrange2]

I’ve found some M-lok stripped uppers in stock and one place had a complete upper. Since I want a stainless barrel it will probably be easier to piece the upper together with the SS barrel. Glad yours is shooting well.

 

[Centuriator]

Makes sense.

 

[Jsp556]

They’re available used from $1600 up. Find a used one and buy a barrel. You’ll save money that way.

Most used ones have very few rounds through them. There’s lots of gun owners, few shooters though.

 

[Centuriator]

Well, there you go...yup...it's great ammo!

 

[BullzeyeNJ]

I got a barely used one last week with 10 mags and a surefire brake for $1750. I really like it more then my other AR10 made out of quality parts. I have the 16” 308 win chrome lined factory barrel. From my limited experience, it prefers the 168g heads over the 155g or 175g heads. It really liked some handloads I made with 168g hornady BTHP, 42.5g 4064 and CCI large rifle primer. Would shoot 5 round groups and 4 out of 5 would be 1/2MOA at 100 yards and the other would get away. I chalk that flyer up to me since I’m not great behind a large frame gas gun. Practice more is what I need.

 

[TangoSierra916]

The PRIME is pricey, but ... sure fun to get as tight a group as possible. I'll look forward to hearing how you do with the PRIME ammo. I just picked up a few 20 round boxes to try it out. Will have to get more.

I stocked up on PRIME .308 after my first few suppressed groups with it and while finding it at roughly .88/round, shot amazing! As you said the rifle is just impressive and I'm finding similar accuracy to what you mentioned. I did swap the trigger to the SSA-E and the stock to the Magpul PRS gen 3, not sure what else I would change on it now, pretty sweet! 5 shot group at 100m below. While group size is important to an extent the LMT is just flippin fun to shoot!

 

[Centuriator]

I stocked up on PRIME .308 after my first few suppressed groups with it and while finding it at roughly .88/round, shot amazing! As you said the rifle is just impressive and I'm finding similar accuracy to what you mentioned. I did swap the trigger to the SSA-E and the stock to the Magpul PRS gen 3, not sure what else I would change on it now, pretty sweet! 5 shot group at 100m below. While group size is important to an extent the LMT is just flippin fun to shoot!

Dang!!! That's nearly the same hole.

A Fudd over on FuddLine (Firing Line) declared it was impossible to get groups like that out of a semi-auto AR-10 and then went on to sing the praises of the M1A as one of the very finest semi-auto precision rifles ever made.

Great to hear it! It does seem like the LMT MWS .308 loves PRIME. I'm not sure a custom load could/would do much better, but if so, I'd love to hear about it and see the results.

Any reloaders out there: Have you found the "magic pill" for your LMT MWS?

 

[Tonsofguns]

I am a huge LMT fanboy. I own two mws, an lmt mrp, and few mrp uppers. Caliber range from 223, 308. 6.5, and 6.8.

One of the mws i picked up was on a trade. The guy mangled the upper by trying to remove the brake with the barrel on (not smart considering it take two minutes to remove the barrel). I sent it in to LMT, and they just gave me a new upper without even charging me for shipping. This is awesome customer service considering this is user error.

Ill get a picture up shortly of my LMT set ups. For the price, i feel these are the best bang for the buck.

 

[Centuriator]

I am a huge LMT fanboy. I own two mws, an lmt mrp, and few mrp uppers. Caliber range from 223, 308. 6.5, and 6.8.

One of the mws i picked up was on a trade. The guy mangled the upper by trying to remove the brake with the barrel on (not smart considering it take two minutes to remove the barrel). I sent it in to LMT, and they just gave me a new upper without even charging me for shipping. This is awesome customer service considering this is user error.

Ill get a picture up shortly of my LMT set ups. For the price, i feel these are the best bang for the buck.

Wow....there's no fix for stupid, well, in this case, fortunately for you, there was! Congrats.

I picked up a New Zealand model in 5.56. Great rifle, of course, just a bit "much" for my needs, so I just sold it, used proceeds to grab the .308 and used what was left over to snag a COLT SOCOM 6920 while they were still available.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

I've just acquired the Bushnell AR Optic 4.5-18x40 308 BDC for my 20" PA-10. This scope has a 1" tube. It's not a pricey scope, and it's probably not going to pass muster with some of the good folks here. But I'll put this out there for your consideration anyway.

Bushnell Listing. If you want it, do it soon; they're going away forever.

It has aim points matched to the 168gr .308 FGMM(?) trajectory at 100yd increments between 100yd and 500yd, and the lower stadia wire duplex reticle junction can be used for 600yd.

Internally, it looks like it's a 4.5x scope with a 4x zoom; neither of which is a huge optical stretch. At 18x, that should produce about a 2 1/4mm exit pupil, maybe not so especially challenging; zoom down and it gets bigger.

I offer this suggestion because it sure looks like you're having a ball switching on and off targets quickly. You're doing it left and right. This allows you to switch distances, too.

It could be a fun exercise, the tariff wouldn't be all that pricey, and a 4.5-18 magnification range ain't chopped liver, either. It just might add to your fun. With a 600yd LRF, it also can give you a pretty quick UKD firing solution.

As for sacrificing the 175gr loads, that might not be so necessary; and since your range has you at 400yd, 175's might not be necessary either. Personally, with a 260 at my reach, fighting the 308/1000yd struggle just seems so unnecessary. I'd be happy with the 308 (and the 223) out to 600; and I'd rather leave the LR stuff to the 260.

My load development project for the 260 will be with the 140gr SGD (Speer Gold Dot). My pair of F T/R Savage 11VT's are absolutely identical except for the chamberings and the matching Bushnell AR Optic BDC scopes.

FGMM 168 trajectory at 5400ft ASL (I live at 4350ft ASL):

http://www.shooterscalculator.com/ballistic-trajectory-chart.php?t=b2b688e8

I have four of these 308 BDC scopes. The first one is on my .308 F-T/R bolt (Savage, worked) rifle, and the aim points are bang-on out to 300, which is my current available Range distance limit. Two more are on my 6.5 Grendels, and that's a lot better trajectory match than might occur to most (about 2-3" vertical difference at 500yd). I like them, and the IMI 7.62x51 NATO 168gr Semi Auto Match (Razor Core) likes them too.

Number four is waiting for me to get my act together and do my load testing for the 20" PA-10 with 168gr Speer Gold Dots. I think the scope, the bullet, and the 20" PA-10 are going to play really nicely together. A good 308 match load is a 168 at 2.815" OAL, Fed Premium Brass (but IMI is better), FGMM Primer, and 43.5 of IMR-4064.

I also just mounted their 6.5CM version on my 260, the trajectories are nominally identical, and I don't know how much longer they'll be available.

...And, good to see you on here again...

Greg

 

[Centuriator]

Brownells has the AR 308 MWS LOWER RECEIVER COMPLETE for $828 using coupon code WBV.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

This PA-10 Lower is what I have.

I have upgraded it with this 2-Stage Trigger, this combined bolt release and extension, and this HK416 Recoil Pad. These are convenience items that all of my 6 AR's have in one form or another. I had bought a Miculek Muzzle Brake for the PA-10, but the recoil pad completely eliminated the need to mount it. The combined bolt release and extension is the first example I've ever used that does not allow the extension lever to walk front-to-back, and believe me I've tried several.

These are all more or less economy upgrades. I am THE cheapskate. I have spent the past several years buying and building acceptable AR's, learning what cheap stuff is sh*t, and which actually works pretty neato. I have the box of rejected components to prove it.

But..., these upgrades transform the basic PSA Classic EPT Lowers into something with very similar features to some of the higher shelf Uppers. I own 3 PA-15 Lowers and this PA-10 Lower and they are all configured with these Upgrades. The PA-01 Uses the upgrade listed above. The PA-15's all have either factory AR Stoner Uppers, or home built Uppers composed of AR Stoner components. Every single one of my AR's have the identical ergonomic layout.

The same is true of my three Savage-Based LR capable bolt guns, 223, 308, and 260. Seven of my rifles employ the appropriate-to-chambering versions of the Bushnell AR Drop Zone BDC scope (4-308's, 2-223's, and one 6.5CM). There's also a Mossberg MVP 223 Predator configured as a Walkabout Hunter.

There's a 2-Gun Match setup using a Ruger American Pistol 9 Pro, and a Ruger PC Carbine; both interchange the same magazines.

My Wife thinks I've gone bonkers buying gun stuff, but it's all been for a specific purpose, and that purpose is now completely served. BTW, she's also completely correct; but I'm done now, or at least for now. Every one of my rifles is configured for a specific goal, and the goals are now transitioned to develop matched handloads employing Speer Gold Dot rifle bullets (I like them that much.).

I figure somewhere in the mix, these rifles and upgrades have saved me one or more thousands of dollars to provide six pretty refined, adequate and acceptable AR platforms (the other two are an identical pair of Stag Model 6 Super Varminters). They're nowhere near the LMT's class, but for me, they don't need to be, I'm just shooting for fun. On my budget one or more thousands of dollars is pure Manna from Heaven. If I was buying somebody else's brainchildren, I'd be probably be owning less than half of ones like those I have.

I'm testing this bipod, and will upgrade The Four Step Kids with it because it's already acceptable for my simpler needs. The PA-15's get the shorter one, and the PA-10 gets the taller one to accommodate the 308's taller magazines.

Greg

 

[Centuriator]

Sounds great Greg.

What is this HK recoil pad?

 

[Greg Langelius *]

This. (Click on the green, they're links) It slips right on the end of a 6-position collapsible stock's butt.

It spreads the recoil contact patch a couple of inches wide and flexes under heavier recoil, absorbing it well enough that Ole Duckie (Ducking recoil, me) feels no discomfort.

No noise from a brake, less weight, and better balance, especially with longer barreled rifles.

I'm hoping to eventually replace the sliding portions of the four collapsible stocks with Luth AR MBA-5's; much more affordable, and better with a rear bag.

Greg

 

[Centuriator]

I may have to give that a try. Wonder if it will work on my Magpul stock. Easy enough to return with Amazon.

And I just found out: NOPE, only for the issued stock. I may try it on the mil speck stock I have

 

[Centuriator]

I'm testing this bipod, and will upgrade The Four Step Kids with it because it's already acceptable for my simpler needs. The PA-15's get the shorter one, and the PA-10 gets the taller one to accommodate the 308's taller magazines.

Greg

I'm a big believer in paying for a rock solid bipod. When I upgraded from my relatively cheapo Harris, to an Accu-TAC it made a HUGE difference in stability. FWIW.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

My experience so far with the UTG bipod is that it is quite/very solid when extended as well as when it's stowed.

Because it stows bore-parallel and up around the bore axis, the bottom of the forend has (for me) much less interference with a ruck/rests. It also stows both fore or aft, and deploys at 90 degrees as well as 45 degrees fore or aft. That's some more options, and can affect things like entanglement and/or balance, although the product is actually pretty lightweight.

Folks have suggested to me in another topic that another one comes off and on very easily. I think that's nice, but this one stays attached and mostly o/o the way, and I'd rather not be involved in removing, stowing, unstowing, keeping track of, and reattaching something that, yes, does more; but also costs a lot more, is a bit bulkier and heavier, and I can make do without anyway.

The cons include a lack of pan and tilt. That's inherent in the design concept. That's the reality I've been living with since back when I mounted my first Harris bipod. I can continue to live with it.

Greg

 

[HornDog87]

Centuriator, have you ran any 168gr prime ammo through your lmt? I've got two lmt mws 308s and with 168 fgmm I'm getting. . 68 and I'm looking to get tighter. I live in Alaska an no one carries prime up here that I've seen, more of a special order.
I'm rocking a South American 16" and a Danish police model 16" and Im going to be deciding which one to keep.

Semper fi
Horner

 

[Centuriator]

Hi HornDogL

Yes, but I had had better results with the 175grain PRIME. Once I saw what I was getting with the 175 over 168, I didn't even measure my 168gr results.

I had to mail order it too. Now I wish I had bought more. I bought 40 rounds for testing purposes. I got my .37 group with my LMT MWS with this configuration: 20" SS barrel, SSA Geissele group, Harris Bipod, shooting on a bench, rear sandbag, 2.5-20 NIGHTFORCE, at 100 yards on a "perfect" day weather wise, around 68 degrees and zero wind. And I've been shooting for a few, well, a lot of decades, so that all helped. I am looking forward however to trying it all again on a great day since I upgraded my bipod to an Accu-Tac F. Hopeful to do better than .37" ... but I'm very content with that out of a semi-auto AR-10.

Hope that helps.

 

[HornDog87]

Roger that Centuriator,

I might have to grab a couple boxes of 168-175gr prime as I'm rocking:
16" CL barrel
Atlas v8 with spiked cleat feet
Sand sock rear bag
Leupold mark 5 3.8-18 in an Adm 20moa mount
At 100yrds and it was. . 68moa w 168fgmm

I hear nothing but great reviews of prime ammo, but it's always flown under the radar for me as it's not very common up here in the tundra. But thanks again for the reply ?

Semper fi
Horner

 

[Centuriator]

Roger that Centuriator,

I might have to grab a couple boxes of 168-175gr prime as I'm rocking:
16" CL barrel
Atlas v8 with spiked cleat feet
Sand sock rear bag
Leupold mark 5 3.8-18 in an Adm 20moa mount
At 100yrds and it was. . 68moa w 168fgmm

I hear nothing but great reviews of prime ammo, but it's always flown under the radar for me as it's not very common up here in the tundra. But thanks again for the reply ?

Semper fi
Horner

I'll be interested to hear how your experiences with 175gr go. Sounds like you have an awesome set up.

What trigger group are you using? Stock LMT or ... .?

My results came with the Geissele SSA, but I since put in the SSA-E, which is noticeably better. So...now I just have to get some more 175gr PRIME

 

[HornDog87]

Whoops, I thought I included the stock and trigger. I'm rocking a giessele ssa-e and a magpul prs gen 3 with a hoptics rubber cheek pad for my danty cheeks lol

I should note that, I have recently just purchased the atlas and cleared feet. At the time of the. 68, I was using my dracos mantis with spiked feet and new lmt gitters.

To be honest, if I can squeeze a touch past sub half moa with a 16" mws I would be thoroughly impressed.

Semper fi
Horner

 

[Centuriator]

Whoops, I thought I included the stock and trigger. I'm rocking a giessele ssa-e and a magpul prs gen 3 with a hoptics rubber cheek pad for my danty cheeks lol

I should note that, I have recently just purchased the atlas and cleared feet. At the time of the. 68, I was using my dracos mantis with spiked feet and new lmt gitters.

To be honest, if I can squeeze a touch past sub half moa with a 16" mws I would be thoroughly impressed.

Semper fi
Horner

Excellent and indeed! Oh, and I see you are using the CL barrel. Not sure I mentioned, but I'm using the 20" SS barrel. I think that helps a smidge, but heck yea, 1/2 and even sub-MOA is something to be proud of.

 

[HornDog87]

Excellent and indeed! Oh, and I see you are using the CL barrel. Not sure I mentioned, but I'm using the 20" SS barrel. I think that helps a smidge, but heck yea, 1/2 and even sub-MOA is something to be proud of.

I did see your ss 20" barrel in your load out list, I know you have a better advantage. However with a cl 16" barrel like you stated sub moa or half moa would be something to be proud of.
Unfortunately with this "plague" that's going around I'm stuck in the Alaskan oilfields for six weeks, so it'll be awhile before I can post my results.

Semper fi
Horner

 

[Centuriator]

Oh, absolutely. I was also going to say I'm not sure what difference a 16" CL would be from a 20" at 100. Mine came with the 16" CL. I'll have to try it out and keep every other variable the same.

 

[HornDog87]

Oh, absolutely. I was also going to say I'm not sure what difference a 16" CL would be from a 20" at 100. Mine came with the 16" CL. I'll have to try it out and keep every other variable the same.

If you do get the ich to swap those barrels out and give it the same variables, please post your results.
I'm planning on using my south American lmt or my Danish police model lmt for hunting this year in the Alaskan bush (just for bragging rights.) but I'm looking to hopefully shoot a caribou or moose at 500-700 yards as the terminal ballastics for 308 drop at 700yrds.

Semper fi
Horner

 

[Centuriator]

Roger that, will do.

 

[aggiez28]

I had one once. it was a good gun