My "Red Dawn" Build

[QuarterHorse]

So I lurk on here quite a bit, I listen to the podcast when they're released, (keep up the great work guys) and try and do my best to search before asking questions. I'm familiar with shooting, I'm at the age where I don't need to buy a "insert budget rifle here" and try to make that work, however, I'm also a normal "Joe" and don't want to dump 6 grand off the bat on building my "one" quality rifle (I have a few of those lesser expensive guns in the safe) and I'm sure after I build one I'll have others coming to fill the gap.

So, this being said, my first "mid to high end" build I'm looking at a few things to be met. The gun has to run, obviously. I'm thinking I may want factory ammo availability just in case I'm traveling and ammo gets separated. Looking for something to hunt the majority of big game at reasonable distance (caliber wise I'm not building a mountain gun), I'm looking to run a can on it, as well as looking to shoot PRS or the like.

I know after this build I'll do others, and I can get more specific on things. However for this first one, it has to somewhat be a "do all" and I know that means "do nothing great but most things okay". Looking for input on the following and I appreciate any feedback.

Action:
Curtis Axiom - Alamo Precision caught my eye on just "buying a rifle" and from what I read are a great action.
GAP - Their name speaks for itself, however, I'm not sure if going with one from them warrants the cost difference over the Curtis

Barrel:
Bartlein - I really think this is the only choice based on research. I know there are other great manufacturers but I see no reason not to go with them. More debatable is going with the left hand gain twist, or reasons why not to if I'm doing this from "nothing" per say.

Chassis/Stock - my most concern/grey area:
KRG Bravo - To look at a chassis that doesn't look like so much of a chassis, this appeals to me.
Cadex - Their mini chassis appeals most to me but is it that much better than the Bravo?
XLR doesn't appeal to my eye really but I'd be interested in hearing other suggestions

Trigger:
I'm all ears

Chambering - Most debatable
6.5CM - the obvious when looking into something like this wanting factory ammo availability
6.5 PRC - Ammo availability isn't quite there. I initially like the thought of this round, however availability may steer me away
.308 - I'm not so much in love anymore. I have a few in the safe but am thinking of moving onto something sleeker
6.5x284 - Sexy to me, but wanting to stick with feeding out of AI mags and availability elsewhere
*EDIT* - I do hand load FWIW on any recomendations

Maybe I'm splitting hairs here and maybe since I don't travel as much as some (will be looking to travel to PRS matches and scout western hunts) I shouldn't worry about availability so much and look more into the 6.5 PRC vs the 6.5x284

I know there's a lot here guys and I'm sure it's in the forums somewhere but I'm not finding specifics, and hey, why not discuss things like this we're passionate about anyway?

Thanks again in advance and thanks again for a great website

-Dustin

 

[Deleted member 113831]

All the 6.5's you listed have a barrel life of +/- 2000 rounds. The 308 has been known to go 10,000. The 6.5's will have about a 30% or more ballistic advantage over the 308. Any of those listed will bang steel and kill stuff.

 

[Mormegil87]

GAPs are great rifles you won't be disappointed by their Templar or Templar 2 action. I'm a tad bit hesitant about the Tempest action due to witnessing a several issues at matches. Those issues may have been sorted out by changing out the trigger hangers. But all in all, GAP is top notch. If you like the tradition feel and look to a rifle, paired with great accuracy then a GAP will serve you well.

I haven't seen or run a Curtis.

You did mention that the "gun has to run". I might suggest looking at the AIAT. They will run, no matter what. Yes they are a bit on the bulky side but they can be had for 3500 bucks here on the Hide or the cost of a custom GAP rifle for a new one. You can switch barrels in under a minute if you choose to shoot 6.5 Creed or practice with .308.

 

[Jackalope]

What’s your ratio of competition to hunting and how serious are you about competing? You’re not really gonna build a serious competition rifle that’s gonna be fun to use in the field. As skookum stated, you’re sacrificing a lot of barrel life with some of the 6.5s. Especially the 6.5x284. The GAP extreme hunter seems like it may be the type of rifle you’re looking for but there’s definitely compromise. You can go to the grocery store in a GT3RS but it doesn’t really make a lot of sense.

 

[QuarterHorse]

Good call Jackalope and I didn't address that as I should have.

I'll be competing with this rifle more than hunting. A lifestyle change has me looking to get into competing more and traveling to do so. As a hunting rig it'd be less than 7 days a year vs what I'm hoping 30 days competing.
Worst case scenario, if it was a no go with trying to be competitive with this rifle being required to be lugged through a field, I'll drag out one of my old girls in the safe instead like I currently do and use the new build to compete only
In short, emphasis on competition. I do understand barrels are like ammo, a commodity that will be used up.

 

[flyer]

What type of competition?

If you want to shoot the production class in PRS, the PVA John Hancock is probably the way to go. It's relatively inexpensive at $1,999 and has the KRG Bravo. The barrel is a Rock Creek, not Bartlein but it will shoot. The action is ARC Nucleus and looks like a good one. I can't wait to get my Nucleus.

That allows you to get in to the production class with a very very nice rifle and pre-fit barrels will be available off the shelf so you will be able to replace a barrel without getting bumped out of your class or change caliber too.

I considered it very carefully but I probably won't compete and if I did, I'm sure I would not be competitive with the people who actually train and compete regularly. Because of that and wanting to change up some of the parts, I'm getting a Barloc and a Savage pre-fit barrel and putting it together myself. So I'll lose to people with $$$ rifles instead of lose to people with $$ rifles...

 

[nexusfire]

Stay away from Curtis, very shitty customer service.

 

[PBWalsh]

“Red Dawn” build... yeah look at a used or MHSA “Demo” AIAT in 6.5CM or .308. They are pigs, but they are going to run, every time. I am actually going to purchase one because of the sheer reliability of the system. The weight is not as bad as it seems, the one I shot, the owner said it was around 20 pounds, and I had no problems working on a barricade with it.

If not an AIAT, look at a used AE/AW. If you hate the ergonomics of an AI, then I would only look at an ARC Nucleous or Mausingfield with a CG-Xtreme or Huber trigger.

 

[TX_Punisher]

Trigger: triggertech seems to be popular right now. I like the sealed design. I have the diamond and it's adjustable down to .5lbs all the way up to 3.

 

[PFG]

However for this first one, it has to somewhat be a "do all"

There's a nice thread on this topic that you might want to read:

http://www.snipershide.com/shooting/threads/who-has-built-a-do-it-all-rifle.6734630/

I know you mentioned not wanting to buy a budget rifle. And from your post, it sounds like you want to build to scratch the itch of building a rifle. All that said, I still think you'd come out way ahead by purchasing a Tikka CTR and:

1) Buying a KRG Bravo for the PRS type shoots you mentioned
2) Keeping the CTR stock and CTR DBM for using the rifle to hunt

As you'll see in the thread link I posted, the CTR checks a LOT of boxes. And I can tell you from my own experience...a shooter can dump a lot of time and money and over thinking into a build only to realize they have built a "fancy" CTR with little to no difference in accuracy/performance, etc etc.

 

[steve123]

In many PRS style comps there is a lot of positional and obstacle shooting, so the least recoil can make for easier self spotting, gotta see where that bullet goes to make corrections. 6.5 Creed of the one's you listed makes the most sense. 10 rounds AI style mags are just the easy way to go.

Though 6.5-284 can be loaded down to 6.5Creed level, which I didn't do when I had mine, it typically gets poor barrel life at the normal fps it was made for. Personally I'd rather do the PRC and load it down instead vs 6.5-284.

These days a really nice build doesn't need to cost $4000-$5000.

Pick a great action, to me that means ARC or Bighorn.

Pick a chassis, heck buy some used one's and sell the ones you don't prefer.

Pick a trigger and install the trigger yourself in a few minutes.

Pre fit barrel/s, go guage, etc is a very appealing way to go - DYI.
Those premium barrels, gunsmithed, shouldered, chambered and threaded for MB are getting really expensive. One Smith quoted me almost $1000 not including shipping, nah, I'm not paying that kind of money anymore.

 

[PFG]

Those premium barrels, gunsmithed, shouldered, chambered and threaded for MB are getting really expensive. One Smith quoted me almost $1000 not including shipping, nah, I'm not paying that kind of money anymore.

Agree. It will be interesting to see how the gunsmith industry responds to all the new the pre fit barrel systems.

 

[TX_Punisher]

Trigger: triggertech seems to be popular right now. I like the sealed design. I have the diamond and it's adjustable down to .5lbs all the way up to 3.

Sorry. Looks like 4oz to 2lbs. Either way they're getting great reviews. The non diamond is even getting great reviews. Good luck with you build.

 

[W54/XM-388]

I'm not sure what you are referring to by calling it "Red Dawn build".

It seems like you mostly really want something high end and accurate for shooting competitions.
I'd suggest that you get one rifle setup exactly as you want for the competitions you plan to shoot & then setup a second simpler rifle as your hunting rifle based on what you want to hunt & where.

A rifle good for hunting, as in shooting a heavy enough cartridge to put down medium sized game ethically, usually without a brake so as not to destroy your ears, in a stock that you can stand carrying all day long, where you might shoot 1 to 3 shots at most, is not going to be setup the same as the rifle that you want to go to a competition with.

 

[demolitionman]

Red dawn build lmao



It is a Friday evening, and you’re on your way home from work. Your son and daughter are making dinner for you, and you’re looking forward to the weekend. You have about three more miles to go to reach your house in a middle-class suburban neighborhood. Suddenly your Lexus goes dead and starts to coast on the road to a stop, just as you look out your passenger-side window: it appears to be a star, but very near, with a type of “halo” around it up above. The star flickers out, and all of the street lights, the lights in the homes, the businesses, and cars nearby flicker out. You realize two things: you’ve been hit by an EMP, and the dinner plans for tonight with the family will probably be postponed indefinitely; better grab the red dawn build......their coming for us. . .

 

[Bender]

Red dawn build lmao



It is a Friday evening, and you’re on your way home from work. Your son and daughter are making dinner for you, and you’re looking forward to the weekend. You have about three more miles to go to reach your house in a middle-class suburban neighborhood. Suddenly your Lexus goes dead and starts to coast on the road to a stop, just as you look out your passenger-side window: it appears to be a star, but very near, with a type of “halo” around it up above. The star flickers out, and all of the street lights, the lights in the homes, the businesses, and cars nearby flicker out. You realize two things: you’ve been hit by an EMP, and the dinner plans for tonight with the family will probably be postponed indefinitely; better grab the red dawn build......their coming for us. . .

Is that like shtf rifle?

 

[QuarterHorse]

Thanks for all of the response.

With the pre-fit barrel setups are we seeing any noticed diminished accuracy results? I have Savages in the safe and in the beginning of my hobby that's why I went the route of Savage but am seeing lackluster results, but who knows really.

Red Dawn = "Go to" = SHTF = Whatever else you want to call it. It's the gun that gets grabbed every time a PRS match comes around, perhaps my once in a lifetime big game hunt as well. I want to really be proud to have due to it's ability to run and be rock steady. As I've said, this isn't my first go, but I have the means where as before maybe not so much as other hobbies and life just happens.

Hopefully I'm painting a better picture of what I'm after.

The Curtis Vector action didn't make my initial list by mistake. That is something that interests me, not to change calibers really, but I know barrels are a commodity and will be used up. I wasn't sure if those were "pre fit" or no? I've read a few things on 'em but nothing definitive.

Thanks again

 

[W54/XM-388]

Red Dawn = "Go to" = SHTF = Whatever else you want to call it. It's the gun that gets grabbed every time a PRS match comes around, perhaps my once in a lifetime big game hunt as well.

A PRS match / once in a lifetime Big game hunt is pretty much the opposite of what most would consider SHTF.

Big Game hunting will require a different cartridge than you will want to be shooting at a PRS match.
Smaller game like deer and a bit larger no problem with your match rifle, but move up to the "Big Game" and it's usually considered ethical to use something bigger than the 6.5CM / .308 / 6mm etc.

For something that you will be proud to have and be rock steady as a go to for matches and light game hunting,
Some suggestions would be:

Accuracy International
GA Precision
TacOps

Probably in a 6.5CM that would let you compete in matches well & do hunting for light game really easily.

 

[deersniper]

Gotta be an AI for shtf. Or red dawn.

Think you would be better off with an AR with Aimpont for that.

I did buy an AX for the "red dawn" factor though lol.

 

[QuarterHorse]

Yeah I guess fitness is unknown, and I should have re-iterated the "I'm not building a 5lb mountain gun" issues or just thrown out the hunting aspect. Let's face it, anything I have already will be lighter and kill the same. The flip side is I don't want a 20lb gun either. Something about that takes some "sexy-ness" out of it for me.

I'm not getting into "what cartridge is ethical" debate here. I've killed piles of game with everything from hand guns to bolt guns with shotguns the norm here in Iowa. The above calibers mentioned are all in my zone of whom ever's scale of power factor you want to use.

I have gas guns and am not so "attracted to them" either. Looking for that "one build bolt gun" which I have a fascination with.

Just looking for what you think would be "what action will run regardless" "what chassis/stock should I be looking at given the above" "what trigger won't leave me wanting" etc... kind of thing.

Thanks again all, I like these discussions, and like reading others postings which is why forums don't get old to me.

 

[deersniper]

Get an AIAT or AX if you don't mind the weight.
Or look at The Fix if and when it proves it self.

 

[PBWalsh]

^^^ That, or a medium weight Mausingfield build, or an AT with a Proof Barrel.

 

[Codiekfx400]

I would get the John Hancock in 6.5 Creedmoor. If you think you need a Bartlein barrel buy a hunting contour barrel and send it to PVA and have him chamber it and shoulder it for the nucleus action. Now your ready for hunting with the bartlein and banging steel with the Hancock.

 

[RTH1800]

After building dozens of rifles over the years I offer this. Don't build a rifle. There are literally 100,000 or possibly even many times that number of similar rifles setting and not being used that can be purchased for a fraction of the build price. Do your research, make your choices as if you were going to do the build. Then run a WTB ad on here and sit back and watch. You will have a rifle in your hands very nearly exactly as you wish much more quickly than you can build it and it can lay in a bed of cash that you saved by buying second hand. Many of the second hand rifles are hardly shot or unfired.

BTW, AI exceeded my expectations. It is not a rifle, it is a shooting machine.

Good luck in your quest.

RTH

 

[PFG]

Listen to @rth1800

I know - you want to build a rifle bc it will feel like yours.

You get to make the choices after doing the research. And it will feel like a special rifle that no one else has.

Then you realize what @rth1800 said - oh crap. I spent a lot to build a rifle that I could have bout for30-40% less, and had without the wait.

By all means, build if you want. But I think its good to hear that you can have it all and eat your cake if you're willing to buy someone else's "perfect build" that they are now selling.

 

[steve123]

^^^ That, or a medium weight Mausingfield build, or an AT with a Proof Barrel.

Yeah, I was amazed how my Mausingfield ran in the dustiest match I've ever been to which was basically unrelenting 13-25mph winds for two days, and it was that AZ silty crap that get's into everything!! Sounds funny but after the match I stripped the rifle down and rinsed it off in the shower.

 

[C-grunt]

AI fits your wants well.

Works every time? They are a very proven military sniper rifle. Guys are crawling all over the mountains of Afghanistan and the palm groves of Iraq with them and then making long range shots on demand.

Accuracy? AI holds like 8 out of the 10 longest sniper kills.

 

[Fig]

So, this being said, my first "mid to high end" build I'm looking at a few things to be met.

Even a used one is probably going to run more than a high end, best of the best custom build.
I'm not saying they aren't worth it, but to me it's the "money's no object" choice because you could custom build and buy nice glass for what rifle only costs.

 

[djarecke]

Red dawn build lmao



It is a Friday evening, and you’re on your way home from work. Your son and daughter are making dinner for you, and you’re looking forward to the weekend. You have about three more miles to go to reach your house in a middle-class suburban neighborhood. Suddenly your Lexus goes dead and starts to coast on the road to a stop, just as you look out your passenger-side window: it appears to be a star, but very near, with a type of “halo” around it up above. The star flickers out, and all of the street lights, the lights in the homes, the businesses, and cars nearby flicker out. You realize two things: you’ve been hit by an EMP, and the dinner plans for tonight with the family will probably be postponed indefinitely; better grab the red dawn build......their coming for us. . .

Perfect description! The only problem was that you said “their”, not “they’re”.

And get an AX or AT. If the proverbial poop hits the fan, the other guns get to sit WWIII out. The Accuracy Internationals have already been there.

 

[QuarterHorse]

By all means, build if you want. But I think its good to hear that you can have it all and eat your cake if you're willing to buy someone else's "perfect build" that they are now selling.

Solid advice, this is why questions like these are useful. I don't sell guns, it just doesn't enter my mind. I couldn't imagine building "my gun" and then selling it, but I'm sure it happens.

Thanks for all of the advice, I look forward to the new responses daily.

 

[PFG]

It happens a lot. Like daily. Because todays perfect build is "old" when things change.

Guess why there's a ton of 308's for sale in the classifieds.... 6.5 fever.
]

 

[QuarterHorse]

I suppose, thus why I have a safe full of guns that hardly get attention haha.

 

[Fig]

It happens a lot. Like daily. Because todays perfect build is "old" when things change.

Guess why there's a ton of 308's for sale in the classifieds.... 6.5 fever.
]

.308 is a barrel away from 6.5 fever. I wouldn’t hesitate a second if it had an action, stock, trigger, etc. I wanted. Barrels are consumables anyway.

 

[W54/XM-388]

This is why the AI platform is excellent as if something new comes along, you can just order a new barrel and put it on (assuming similar action / boltface) and be good.

With the older AW / AE / AX series you had to have the barrel change kit & then it was really quick and easy.
With the new 2014 and later AX / AT / AXMC series, you just need a small torque wrench and one other wrench and you are good.

This also is great if you are running a cartridge that likes to eat barrels.

 

[Sheldon N]

will be looking to travel to PRS matches

what I'm hoping 30 days competing.

It's the gun that gets grabbed every time a PRS match comes around

If your intentions are traveling across the country to shoot PRS matches, shooting 30 days of competition a year, then you are talking about spending WAY more money on actually shooting than on the build itself. My prediction is that if you follow through on shooting matches like that, you will very quickly only care about this as your competition rifle and will be changing things to suit that purpose.

My recommendation is to build yourself a competition rifle in a competition caliber, and let the other priorities be secondary.

Here's an option to consider... if you like Curtis, why not pick up a Vector action for the switch barrel function, go with a competition caliber like 6.5x47 or 6x47 or one of the 6BR variants (Dasher, etc) with a big heavy barrel and a brake, put it in a chassis like the KRG (though I'd prefer MPA) with a nice Trigger Tech trigger. Then get a second lighter weight barrel in something for hunting like 6.5x284, or 284 Win if you wanted to use the same bolt, or get a magnum face bolt and go with on of the SAUM or PRC's. Then buy a second stock to make it your hunting gun. Change barrels, change stocks and you've got your do it all hunting rifle... without making compromises on your competition gun.

 

[jda2631]

If your intentions are traveling across the country to shoot PRS matches, shooting 30 days of competition a year, then you are talking about spending WAY more money on actually shooting than on the build itself. My prediction is that if you follow through on shooting matches like that, you will very quickly only care about this as your competition rifle and will be changing things to suit that purpose.

My recommendation is to build yourself a competition rifle in a competition caliber, and let the other priorities be secondary.

Here's an option to consider... if you like Curtis, why not pick up a Vector action for the switch barrel function, go with a competition caliber like 6.5x47 or 6x47 or one of the 6BR variants (Dasher, etc) with a big heavy barrel and a brake, put it in a chassis like the KRG (though I'd prefer MPA) with a nice Trigger Tech trigger. Then get a second lighter weight barrel in something for hunting like 6.5x284, or 284 Win if you wanted to use the same bolt, or get a magnum face bolt and go with on of the SAUM or PRC's. Then buy a second stock to make it your hunting gun. Change barrels, change stocks and you've got your do it all hunting rifle... without making compromises on your competition gun.

That works great, quick to change between match and hunting "configurations". But, for me at least, that hunting barrel and stock will "grow" another action and scope before too long and I'd have 2 complete guns. Happens all the time with my AR's, I buy an upper to switch out on another gun, and before long I just end up building another lower to go with it instead of switching

 

[QuarterHorse]

Sheldon N - I like that idea.....

 

[nexusfire]

Yeah, I was amazed how my Mausingfield ran in the dustiest match I've ever been to which was basically unrelenting 13-25mph winds for two days, and it was that AZ silty crap that get's into everything!! Sounds funny but after the match I stripped the rifle down and rinsed it off in the shower.

Lol now that's just a weird image.

 

[scudzuki]

"Red Dawn" build suggests SHTF duty.
I have an AIAX (and a low round count .308 barrel) for that.

Competition rig... the AIAX is a bit heavy for me as I get older and lose muscle mass, I built a PTG R700 action/TriggerTech trigger/MPA BA Lite chassis for that. It's 4 lbs. lighter than the AIAX.

 

[Quarter Horse]

QuarterHorse, please change your screen name. Your's and mine are a little to close and it can create confusion particularly on the PX boards. How about 1/4 Horse or depending on your specific interest Three Bars, Poco Bueno, etc., etc.

As to your question there are a hundred good answers and only you can know which one is right to meet your desires. Note that I said desires not needs. Ten years ago there were far fewer alternatives which should have made decisions easier. It was still hard then and as the sport has grown so have the alternatives. Thirty PRS type matches a year is 2 1/2 matches a month and that's a bunch. Unless you have bunch of club matches around you are going to spend a ton of time and money to accomplish that but lets use the thirty a year model.

I think the PVA John Hancock would be my answer. There will still be a wait but not nearly as long as many of the builders. Considering Josh's reputation these will be shooters. With just a couple of tools this is a switch barrel gun. If I had any plans of using the rifle to hunt I would go 6.5 Creedmoor if not one of the 6mm. If I wanted to start tomorrow I'd get either a AI/AT or a TRG22 in 6.5. I'D make the best deal I could, document the rounds fired, wouldn't wait until I had shot it to it's barrel life and I would be hard pressed to loose $1000.00. Call the $1000.00 a rental feel. In the meantime I'd be at the matches asking everyone about their triggers, their stocks and chassis, their glass, etc. At some point I would pull the trigger and order a custom. Of course you can start out by ordering a custom. If you do LRI and MHSA reputedly have about the shortest lead times.

Here are simple questions to ask yourself. Do you want a regular trigger or a two stage? Do you prefer a chassis, a regular stock or a hybrid (TRG). Have you already decided on glass? Do you have the time and money to get professional instruction (the shortest route to being a capable shooter)? Are you sure you won't prefer F-Class or even NRL?

There are guys that do this and are so good that someone will pay their way and then some. There are guys that do this only for the pure pleasure of becoming significantly better with a rifle. In between is where most of us lie. The real question is which one of those guys do you really want to be?

Please consider the name change. If you have half as much fun as I have you will find it a worthy pursuit.

 

[QuarterHorse]

That works great, quick to change between match and hunting "configurations". But, for me at least, that hunting barrel and stock will "grow" another action and scope before too long and I'd have 2 complete guns. Happens all the time with my AR's, I buy an upper to switch out on another gun, and before long I just end up building another lower to go with it instead of switching

Entirely possible

 

[QuarterHorse]

QuarterHorse, please change your screen name. Your's and mine are a little to close and it can create confusion particularly on the PX boards. How about 1/4 Horse or depending on your specific interest Three Bars, Poco Bueno, etc., etc.

As to your question there are a hundred good answers and only you can know which one is right to meet your desires. Note that I said desires not needs. Ten years ago there were far fewer alternatives which should have made decisions easier. It was still hard then and as the sport has grown so have the alternatives. Thirty PRS type matches a year is 2 1/2 matches a month and that's a bunch. Unless you have bunch of club matches around you are going to spend a ton of time and money to accomplish that but lets use the thirty a year model.

I think the PVA John Hancock would be my answer. There will still be a wait but not nearly as long as many of the builders. Considering Josh's reputation these will be shooters. With just a couple of tools this is a switch barrel gun. If I had any plans of using the rifle to hunt I would go 6.5 Creedmoor if not one of the 6mm. If I wanted to start tomorrow I'd get either a AI/AT or a TRG22 in 6.5. I'D make the best deal I could, document the rounds fired, wouldn't wait until I had shot it to it's barrel life and I would be hard pressed to loose $1000.00. Call the $1000.00 a rental feel. In the meantime I'd be at the matches asking everyone about their triggers, their stocks and chassis, their glass, etc. At some point I would pull the trigger and order a custom. Of course you can start out by ordering a custom. If you do LRI and MHSA reputedly have about the shortest lead times.

Here are simple questions to ask yourself. Do you want a regular trigger or a two stage? Do you prefer a chassis, a regular stock or a hybrid (TRG). Have you already decided on glass? Do you have the time and money to get professional instruction (the shortest route to being a capable shooter)? Are you sure you won't prefer F-Class or even NRL?

There are guys that do this and are so good that someone will pay their way and then some. There are guys that do this only for the pure pleasure of becoming significantly better with a rifle. In between is where most of us lie. The real question is which one of those guys do you really want to be?

Please consider the name change. If you have half as much fun as I have you will find it a worthy pursuit.

Hey cool name, it's really close to mine as you've said that I've had for 20 years now across different forums! I'll see if I can PM an admin to figure out how to get it changed for you though.

All very good points and worthy of consideration. I appreciate your thought in typing that response. Thank you