My solar thread.

[fpgt72]

Well you are thinking what good will that do if you don't have electricity. Good point, you don't think I am doing this kind of thing to "save the planet" do you.

I currently have 800w of solar panels hooked up, only two are on my shop. The others are going to be on the other side. Now I know you are thinking, two sides, sides....why not the roof like everyone else. Easy, the shop has 24' side walls and I am not as young as I once was, I am not going up there. I loose a few hours of sun, but I don't care. I also put them on two sides as I learned when the the sun gets to about 4pm my solar panels really fall off, so I put two on the west side of the building, this will give me 5-ish amps and 17-ish volts on a clear day. I have 4x 100ah lifepo4 batteries all in parallel, it is a 12v system. Yes I know you loose quite a bit, but you also gain availability. Everyone has stuff for a 12v system, walmart, camping places, even Harbor Freight has 12v inverters should I need one NOW. I have a spare.

The entire thing is on a cart so I can wheel it into my house if need be. Currently I can run the furnace, fridge and deep freeze's over night and turn off the propane generator. That will make that propane last a bit longer.

In the shop there is a manual transfer switch that I wired into the main panel.

Tape on the breakers show what is connected to what. I will have power and that is going to be a good thing.

 

[Maggot]

Doesnt that big lathe and stuff like a heat pump run on 220? It would take a lot of panels and batteries to run 220 especially with high amps.

I could be wrong.

 

[96coal449]

FWIW, a BIG genset run on gas, LP, or NG can easily be run on wood gas. Called pyrolysis. Just need the "reactor" for the wood gas.
It can also be stored like LP.

 

[Inifinty]

Doesnt that big lathe and stuff like a heat pump run on 220? It would take a lot of panels and batteries to run 220 especially with high amps.

I could be wrong.

Can run a 3.5 ton HVAC on 2K watts of panels with properly spec'd inverters and batteries when it is sunny. That amount of panels equates to about 80 Sq ft. You need to also install a microair easy start on the outdoor unit to drop the starting amps to get it started.

Word of caution to those building smaller systems, all inverters use some standby power just be switched on. If one is looking to build a small backup system just to keep a fridge going in a power outage, consider some of the cheaper inverters out there, or these ready made "solar generators" are going to consume as much power as a fridge. The more expensive inverters typically will have less standby consumption. Victron being one of the most efficient at standby consumption.

 

[Inifinty]

Well you are thinking what good will that do if you don't have electricity. Good point, you don't think I am doing this kind of thing to "save the planet" do you.
View attachment 8171674
View attachment 8171675
View attachment 8171676
I currently have 800w of solar panels hooked up, only two are on my shop. The others are going to be on the other side. Now I know you are thinking, two sides, sides....why not the roof like everyone else. Easy, the shop has 24' side walls and I am not as young as I once was, I am not going up there. I loose a few hours of sun, but I don't care. I also put them on two sides as I learned when the the sun gets to about 4pm my solar panels really fall off, so I put two on the west side of the building, this will give me 5-ish amps and 17-ish volts on a clear day. I have 4x 100ah lifepo4 batteries all in parallel, it is a 12v system. Yes I know you loose quite a bit, but you also gain availability. Everyone has stuff for a 12v system, walmart, camping places, even Harbor Freight has 12v inverters should I need one NOW. I have a spare.

The entire thing is on a cart so I can wheel it into my house if need be. Currently I can run the furnace, fridge and deep freeze's over night and turn off the propane generator. That will make that propane last a bit longer.
View attachment 8171678

In the shop there is a manual transfer switch that I wired into the main panel.
View attachment 8171679

Tape on the breakers show what is connected to what. I will have power and that is going to be a good thing.
View attachment 8171680

I like this. You have the smaller inverter with less self consumption for running things like a fridge or some lights full time. Then the 3K watt inverter you can switch over to when you need the extra juice.

 

[fpgt72]

Doesnt that big lathe and stuff like a heat pump run on 220? It would take a lot of panels and batteries to run 220 especially with high amps.

I could be wrong.

Correct, I can't do anything 220. And I have tripped the inverter running things like saws and such with all the lights on. In my research it seems that people that need "big" current always use a generator, welders, plasma cutters....my lift, things like that many people just do a generator. Sure there are some that do it all on battery but those people also have a generator "just in case".

 

[fpgt72]

Can run a 3.5 ton HVAC on 2K watts of panels with properly spec'd inverters and batteries when it is sunny. That amount of panels equates to about 80 Sq ft. You need to also install a microair easy start on the outdoor unit to drop the starting amps to get it started.

Word of caution to those building smaller systems, all inverters use some standby power just be switched on. If one is looking to build a small backup system just to keep a fridge going in a power outage, consider some of the cheaper inverters out there, or these ready made "solar generators" are going to consume as much power as a fridge. The more expensive inverters typically will have less standby consumption. Victron being one of the most efficient at standby consumption.

True, and also look at the inverters and see if they are "pure sign" or "modified". The modified is going to be more inexpensive. Yes all the "stuff" you hook on will draw some power. I have a master cutoff but have not installed it yet or made the cables.

 

[Jgunner]

I have considered a smallish solar sytem to run 2 freezers, but enough battery and panel to run them solely on solar. My solar guy that i used on a tiny home got locked up(not sure why) so now i am in the dark again.

 

[HeavyAssault]

I used more of a big box setup to learn more as well as gain real world experiences. I do think the idea of solar daunts people but it's not too difficult to pick up.

Sure, one can run a genset if your needs demand it. For all the efficient items you can buy you don't need a huge solar power system.

 

[Maggot]

Correct, I can't do anything 220. And I have tripped the inverter running things like saws and such with all the lights on. In my research it seems that people that need "big" current always use a generator, welders, plasma cutters....my lift, things like that many people just do a generator. Sure there are some that do it all on battery but those people also have a generator "just in case".

You dont say where youre from, which will surely affect your outcome. If youre on the east coast it gets cloudy a lot esp. in the winter.. From my area (SW Oklahoma) further west, you get a LOT more solar out put. altitude will also affect all that.

 

[GreenGO Juan]

Being on the ground makes cleaning that pannels easier and lowers the risk of leaks through the roof from installation errors.

And I think you have the right mindset using it a supplemental to save fuel for the high current items.

IMO that is how solar should be looked at, as supplemental power/emergency. Not a complete replacement for current generation methods unless you have deep pockets and don't mind the cost.

 

[HeavyAssault]

Everything has a price. Buying panels that are 5+years old can save you but you still need to get all the other stuff to make it work. Gensets still require fuel of some sorts as well as maintenance. So either it's your time building/parting together, your money in expenses, or your money to a company.

 

[bobkhan]

I currently only have a portable solar set up for small stuff. Getting a larger set up is definitely on my to do list.

 

[Yasherka]

I was thinking about starting a thread like this...thanks @fpgt72 for getting it going.

I have been putting together a system for several months now as finances allow and have 10x 295 watt panels, of which 5 are set up in a ghetto configuration. I'm currently designing a pedestal mount to hold them all. It will be vertically adjustable for the seasons but not horizontally for tracking to avoid complexity. Ultimately I'll build two for 20 panels total.

There are two EG4 6500 watt inverter/MPPT controllers in split-phase for 240 volt output, mainly to run the well pump. And two (four by the end of the year) 5.1 kwh 48 volt LIFEPo4 batteries.

It will be a modest system when done, but will keep us comfortable in winter or if we need to move out for any reason.

 

[bobkhan]

I am looking forward to seeing your pedestal mount. I will have to build one as well since my roof pitch is not at a good angle

 

[fpgt72]

Being on the ground makes cleaning that pannels easier and lowers the risk of leaks through the roof from installation errors.

And I think you have the right mindset using it a supplemental to save fuel for the high current items.

IMO that is how solar should be looked at, as supplemental power/emergency. Not a complete replacement for current generation methods unless you have deep pockets and don't mind the cost.

One of the things I have learned in doing this is if you want to run "totally on solar" you have better own a solar panel company. I can almost run all my "normal" lights and on a good day have the draw about equal what is coming in. That is not a great deal of draw. LED lights don't take a ton of current to run.

There is no way on earth going "totally solar" would work, you would need a solar field the size of Texas to run Rhode Island....if you are lucky.

 

[fpgt72]

Everything has a price. Buying panels that are 5+years old can save you but you still need to get all the other stuff to make it work. Gensets still require fuel of some sorts as well as maintenance. So either it's your time building/parting together, your money in expenses, or your money to a company.

Solar panels don't last forever, sure you can save money but you also are not getting something that will be putting out what it is rated for. I see figures like 80% for the older panels. And there is really no recycle for this stuff as well. A couple people are playing with it, but it is not a main thing yet. Just like wind turbine parts and batteries.

 

[fpgt72]

I was thinking about starting a thread like this...thanks @fpgt72 for getting it going.

I have been putting together a system for several months now as finances allow and have 10x 295 watt panels, of which 5 are set up in a ghetto configuration. I'm currently designing a pedestal mount to hold them all. It will be vertically adjustable for the seasons but not horizontally for tracking to avoid complexity. Ultimately I'll build two for 20 panels total.

There are two EG4 6500 watt inverter/MPPT controllers in split-phase for 240 volt output, mainly to run the well pump. And two (four by the end of the year) 5.1 kwh 48 volt LIFEPo4 batteries.

It will be a modest system when done, but will keep us comfortable in winter or if we need to move out for any reason.

Looks like a cool, mine is quite a bit more budget. What you learn from doing this is fantastic however. It makes having conversations with these green "experts" much more profitable. You typically get things like, well that is a 100w solar panel, there are larger ones. Yes there are, but they also carry larger price tags, who is going to pay for that, and here, Missouri, in the spring you can go a solid month and never see the sun. How is that going to be for your power generation.

I also have a small wind turbine, sorry no photos. It is quite old. I welded a mount to the back of my motor home and would put it up when I went racing. Race tracks seem to be always windy. I could run everything for three days aside from the AC on the two batteries and inverter. At the time my son was like 6 and he would play video games on a tube TV during the races when I was working on the car. Microwave ran on it. It is on the slate to be put up. Not sure I will get it this year, finding out I work much slower now.

 

[UKDslayer]

Nice - Can you give us a cost breakdown?

 

[Yasherka]

I bought this kit from Signature Solar

EG4 13kW Off-Grid Split Phase Inverter Bundle | 2 x 6500EX-48| 13000W Output | 16000W PV Input | Split Phase 120/240VAC | All in One Solar Inverter System

Signature Solar provides solar panels, off-grid solar systems, grid-tie, and hybrid systems. Quality solar inverters, bifacial solar panels, complete solar kits, solar batteries. Featuring brands such as EG4 Electronics with their solar battery, LifePower4 and EG4 LLifePower4 and EG4 LL

signaturesolar.com

Which included both inverters, the PV disconnects, 200 amp DC circuit breakers, and cables.

I added the batteries for an additional $2800. Total shipping was $350 (those fucking batteries are about 100 lbs each)

Bought the PV panels up in Denver for $1500 (new old-stock...about a year old).

So I'm into it for shy of $8k, which seems like a lot but I am no longer running the generator and the peace of mind is a wonderful thing knowing I will soon be fully functional without the grid. The one inverter (pure sine wave) that I am using has so far not hiccuped once while concurrently running the lights (650 watts) microwave (1200) heat gun (1500) and 12" miter saw (God only knows but the inrush current has got to be a monster).

 

[MrSmith]

My two cents:

Determine what you want as the end result before starting. Saves changing and replacing things.

A grid tied only system stops working when the grid goes down.

It's easier to clean and maintain panels with a ground mount. Should you decide to go with a roof mount make a way to get up there to clean the panels, dirt (or snow) will reduce (or eliminate) panel output. And you will get older and more stove up.

Consider 12V LED lights. Cheap light strings, easy to install, Lots of light, low watts.

I went with 2V AGM batteries (another word for no leak lead acid). Lithium batteries are the craze but I'm not convinced they are the best for energy storage.

Reread #1.

Thank you,
MrSmith

 

[missed]

I have a 15.2kW with Solaredge inverters and backup interface so I can run solar and diesel if there is no utility power. Diesel is 7kW I can pump water, communication gear, lights, freezers, refrigerators running, and run the propane heat. Can't run the 5ton house AC, if it was hot enough we will just go out to the toyhauler which can get powered off the solar and diesel or fire up the generator on it.

My panels are on the top of the shop which the roof structure was built to handle the wieght. Most of them are on the 1/12 pitch and just some on the 3/12 There is plenty of room to safely walk around the panels to wash them which I typically do a couple times a year.

Batteries are EXPENSIVE. and a pain in the ass. We have a UPS system to keep the communication gear, computers, surveillance systems, and some lighting, up and running for 24-36 hours without the generator running.

All mine are in rows mounted on unistrut. I do not recommend having panels mounted flat to roof structures as it is difficult for heat to dissapate from the back of the panels. It reduces panel performance, it also heat soaks your comp shingle roof and degrades your roof faster. Most shingle manufacturers will void your warranty if you have a roof top solar system. Need to make sure there is enough structure up there to hold up the system.

 

[Yasherka]

My two cents:

Determine what you want as the end result before starting. Saves changing and replacing things.

A grid tied only system stops working when the grid goes down.

It's easier to clean and maintain panels with a ground mount. Should you decide to go with a roof mount make a way to get up there to clean the panels, dirt (or snow) will reduce (or eliminate) panel output. And you will get older and more stove up.

Consider 12V LED lights. Cheap light strings, easy to install, Lots of light, low watts.

I went with 2V AGM batteries (another word for no leak lead acid). Lithium batteries are the craze but I'm not convinced they are the best for energy storage.

Reread #1.

Thank you,
MrSmith

LiFePO4 batteries have, as I see it, two major downsides:
1. Cost. They have a significant initial outlay per watt/hour but this can be justified in that they can be discharged well below a comparable lead acid/agm battery without damage or lifespan reduction. Couple this with them lasting upwards of 7000 charge cycles they will likely outlast me.

2. Cold weather charging. They should not (and ideally with have circuitry so they cannot) be charged below freezing as it will damage the battery. My shop is in the Rockies at 8200' and several times last winter it was below 0 when I walked in.

The only workaround I have been able to think up is to enclose my 'solar shop' in an insulated room within the larger shed, then build an even more insulated battery box within that. Then run a low-wattage heater (7-15 watts) off the inverter to keep them if not warm, then above freezing. The batteries being used will also generate heat, so it should be doable. Still researching that one though.

All that being said, you could build a much larger system for the same cost using agm, or a similar sized but not as capable one for less money. All depends on one's needs though.

 

[HeavyAssault]

Solar panels don't last forever, sure you can save money but you also are not getting something that will be putting out what it is rated for. I see figures like 80% for the older panels. And there is really no recycle for this stuff as well. A couple people are playing with it, but it is not a main thing yet. Just like wind turbine parts and batteries.

So true. Until you check them with a multimeter. I spent $80 on two panels (2-Sharp 208W ea, power rated for 36V @8A). Got a multimeter, they individually checked out good to go with the various reports of solar panels are 80% at best of their rated power. These panels were outputting well within the sticker specs and the 80% "rule". I even was able to get them registered to me for the remaining 20 year warranty (or whatever it was). I spliced the output wires with the newer version connectors (panels had some older style that's no longer used), then plugged them into my "big box" solar generator/battery pack. No issues in any way. Power was EASILY on par with the "brand new big-box" panel. Now these were "home panels" so they are big, as well as not easy to transport. Those panels are not new tech with better cells you now see (I don't recall the tech nomenclature). For the cost of some tools, the panels, and connectors I more than doubled the input capability of my system plus learned a great deal. New out the box "fresh" panels would have been twice as much (if not more) at the minimum.

My point is more inline with IF someone wants to learn about solar it can be done cheap. No need to dive into solar with brand new equipment. I learned about MPPTs, panels, wiring cables, wiring panels, (sort of already knew about series/parallel/ series-parallel) etc etc etc. I bought the "big box" solar generator as it was all-in-one already so I didn't need to buy all those parts to build from scratch. At the time I had no idea what I was doing, I just wanted a back-up power for home medical devices as well as whatever else (phones, freezer, etc etc)

In explaining my setup to others they were surprised to hear that the cost can be done cheaper for their uses. Say you want to power a small well pump, it's really easy. Maybe you have a hunt cabin. Just as easy. It all just depends on how much you consume day-to-day.

 

[sirhrmechanic]

Well you are thinking what good will that do if you don't have electricity. Good point, you don't think I am doing this kind of thing to "save the planet" do you.
View attachment 8171674
View attachment 8171675
View attachment 8171676
I currently have 800w of solar panels hooked up, only two are on my shop. The others are going to be on the other side. Now I know you are thinking, two sides, sides....why not the roof like everyone else. Easy, the shop has 24' side walls and I am not as young as I once was, I am not going up there. I loose a few hours of sun, but I don't care. I also put them on two sides as I learned when the the sun gets to about 4pm my solar panels really fall off, so I put two on the west side of the building, this will give me 5-ish amps and 17-ish volts on a clear day. I have 4x 100ah lifepo4 batteries all in parallel, it is a 12v system. Yes I know you loose quite a bit, but you also gain availability. Everyone has stuff for a 12v system, walmart, camping places, even Harbor Freight has 12v inverters should I need one NOW. I have a spare.

The entire thing is on a cart so I can wheel it into my house if need be. Currently I can run the furnace, fridge and deep freeze's over night and turn off the propane generator. That will make that propane last a bit longer.
View attachment 8171678

In the shop there is a manual transfer switch that I wired into the main panel.
View attachment 8171679

Tape on the breakers show what is connected to what. I will have power and that is going to be a good thing.
View attachment 8171680

Sirhr

 

[Cardboard55]

Baseball-Sized Hail Smashing Into Panels At 150 MPH Destroys Scottsbluff Solar Farm

Baseball-sized hail took out a 5.2-megawatt solar farm in Scottsbluff, Nebraska, on Friday, as part of a giant supercell thunderhead that moved across eastern Wyoming and into Nebraska.

cowboystatedaily.com

Hail risk map. Solar panels are cheap now, maybe pickup a few spares and sock em away...

 

[Cardboard55]

Might want to check water & filtration, as long as we're talking about alternative resources

U.S. Cities With the Best Water | WaterFilterGuru.com

Explore an analysis of the cities with the highest and lowest water contamination in the country.

waterfilterguru.com

 

[RPN]

I run a 3000' house fully off grid, and if you didn't know then you wouldn't know (unless you saw the panels).

30KW in panels, 980 kg of lead acid batteries and 2 4 kw inverters. (NZ is 230v)

I don't have air con, but it isn't necessary here - lots of doors and a 10' stud helps, plus it is super insulated for winter. LED lights all through the house, and a gas oven and stove. In summer the hot water is heated via a heat pump, and in winter when the generation hours are low it is turned off and I have a 23kw wood burner with a 3kw wetback.

We've lived in the house coming up 3 years, and lost power once - when there was 6 people living in it, and some of them didn't turn off the air fryer.

I'd never have a lithium battery in the house, so lead/acid was an easy decision.

 

[Jabberjaw]

My panels were installed in Sept 2014 and have required absolutely zero maintenance (as opposed to everything else in my house!). On my system, the warranty on the electronics that converts the DC voltage into an AC voltage and syncs it to the grid is 25 years. The panels themselves do degrade slightly with time due to radiation damage, on the order of ~1% per year. The generated electricity is fed directly into the grid. Any excess electricity that I generate (e.g., during the day) directly offsets my usage. If I generate excess electricity on a per annum basis, I do receive $$ for it, but that rebate is at a much lower rate. The panels work whenever the sun is shining (unless the panels are covered with snow); however, the amount of electricity generated does depend on the time of day and the weather.

I did not purchase a battery system to take myself off the grid. I live in the northern US, so I am skeptical I could do this in the depths of winter.

In the US, there may be both federal and state tax incentives that could lower your initial purchase cost. I think I paid about 25% of the going rate for my setup once my tax savings were accounted for. In many places, both the price of solar installations and the tax incentives have decreased, so you would need to talk to an installer about the current situation. At the time I purchased my panels, the installer calculated that I would reach a break-even point at 7 years, which is a few months from now. To date, I have generated 40.18 MWh. The average current cost of electricity in the US is $0.1042/kWh, so I have generated the equivalent of ~$4200 of electricity. Having said that, the cost of electricity varies widely between the states, so YMMV

 

[fpgt72]

Nice - Can you give us a cost breakdown?

Mine is very small and very "budget", and all bought piecemeal. I think it would really depend on what your end goal is going to be determines what is "best". The other folks on this thread with "real" systems no doubt paid a great deal more then I did. I am going to put up the latest photo I have of my charge controller, it shows how much "power" it has made from the last reset a couple weeks ago.

Where it says total, that 13.5 kwh, that is how much I have made. Now my most expensive summer rate is .15 per kwh. I will let you do the math on that.

As to what it cost, I have "wasted" money and bought stuff I don't use anymore, in the photo above you see a little old 600w inverter, that has not been on in months, I really don't use it anymore. I had just two panels sitting on the ground when I used it, found out this is fun and wanted to go bigger.

I have two different solar panels, some from Renogy, and some from Harbor Freight, yup harbor freight, over on the diysolar.com forum they review quite well. If you are interested check out that site. I also have 4 different charge controllers, started with a "cheap chinese" controller, then went to a more "expensive" renogy 10a controller, and then finally now this 80A controller you have seen in the photos.

Here is a rough outline on the costs I have.

Panels roughly $100 each.
Charge controller I am using now was ~ $300 the others around $30.
That little inductive meter $30.
Inverter I currently use $360.
Brackets are I think $50 for the pair.

A lot of stuff I am using I has laying around the place, I have dozens of T posts, lots of scrap metal both steel and aluminum wood......

The wire I will say you want all copper. CCA is ok but you need to size it to your estimated current plus about 20%, at least this is what I did. Copper wire is darn expensive, now I know why the tweakers tear stuff up to get it. You will also need things like bus bars, and other odd hardware. Hang out on that DIY solar forum, they are good guys over there, I am there but more a reader then a poster, I think I have the same "handle" there as well.

Right now I am VERY happy with how things are going with my system. I have run everything in my shop for 4 hours and the battery bank did not hit cutoff, and by everything I mean everything 110, but not big current things like boost battery chargers, table saws, that kind of thing, and no 240 stuff. So all the lights, radio, water pumps, and whatever "little" things. It will run my chop saw just fine and that sucker will draw a tick over 15a, but the boost charger will shut everything down quick. Still learning what works and what does not.....but it is real fun.

I see this as a, well you are out in the shop anyways and everything the batteries cover is that much less power that I am using from the "grid". Will I see a break even point, who knows, but I do know I am smarter and have a better understanding on how this all works and that is worth a great deal to me.

 

[fpgt72]

Baseball-Sized Hail Smashing Into Panels At 150 MPH Destroys Scottsbluff Solar Farm

Baseball-sized hail took out a 5.2-megawatt solar farm in Scottsbluff, Nebraska, on Friday, as part of a giant supercell thunderhead that moved across eastern Wyoming and into Nebraska.

cowboystatedaily.com

Hail risk map. Solar panels are cheap now, maybe pickup a few spares and sock em away...

And this is something they don't talk about, these things don't last forever and while I look like I am in a yellow area I can say I have replaced 4 roofs on the different houses I have owned due to hail damage. My current hose has a roughly 5yr old roof that was paid for by "insurance".

Here you can just about bet on your roof will get smoked by hail if you live in the same house 30 years. You will get hit at least once in that 30 years. Solar panels don't recycle real well also. Landfill baby. And they also take a great deal of power to make. What you put in is no where near what you get out of them during their life time.

I sound real anti solar by reading that, but yet you see I have what I have. And for me I have a good investment in my system. I have learned what it is good for what it will do and what it will not.

Someone said supplement power, that is the key, it is great for that. But I don't want to be undergoing heart surgery and have the only power for the hospital be battery power.

 

[fpgt72]

View attachment 8172120

Sirhr

I do what I can, keep them working for the Chinese you know.

 

[sirhrmechanic]

Baseball-Sized Hail Smashing Into Panels At 150 MPH Destroys Scottsbluff Solar Farm

Baseball-sized hail took out a 5.2-megawatt solar farm in Scottsbluff, Nebraska, on Friday, as part of a giant supercell thunderhead that moved across eastern Wyoming and into Nebraska.

cowboystatedaily.com

Hail risk map. Solar panels are cheap now, maybe pickup a few spares and sock em away...

Bet lots of Carbon output involved in replacing all those clean Green energy generators!! Their carbon footprint payback just got longer!!!

Sirhr

 

[missed]

And this is something they don't talk about, these things don't last forever and while I look like I am in a yellow area I can say I have replaced 4 roofs on the different houses I have owned due to hail damage. My current hose has a roughly 5yr old roof that was paid for by "insurance".

Here you can just about bet on your roof will get smoked by hail if you live in the same house 30 years. You will get hit at least once in that 30 years. Solar panels don't recycle real well also. Landfill baby. And they also take a great deal of power to make. What you put in is no where near what you get out of them during their life time.

I sound real anti solar by reading that, but yet you see I have what I have. And for me I have a good investment in my system. I have learned what it is good for what it will do and what it will not.

Someone said supplement power, that is the key, it is great for that. But I don't want to be undergoing heart surgery and have the only power for the hospital be battery power.

I wanted to rack mine with powered single axis trackers and be able to turn the panels vertical in case of a hail storm to minimize hail impact. The added cost of the components with me building everything it was not cost effective. It was going to be almost half the cost of the panels just for parts, a ground mounted system would have been less expensive to do that on, but still not worth the extra cost.

 

[fpgt72]

I wanted to rack mine with powered single axis trackers and be able to turn the panels vertical in case of a hail storm to minimize hail impact. The added cost of the components with me building everything it was not cost effective. It was going to be almost half the cost of the panels just for parts, a ground mounted system would have been less expensive to do that on, but still not worth the extra cost.

I have started to look into sun tracking systems, I think it would be fun to make. I would do a small one, likely two panels, so everything would be fairly light. I could get away with bushings and not bearings that kind of thing.

I saw on the DIY site there are kits out there and lists of the stuff you need to get to make it yourself.

 

[Yasherka]

I have started to look into sun tracking systems, I think it would be fun to make. I would do a small one, likely two panels, so everything would be fairly light. I could get away with bushings and not bearings that kind of thing.

I saw on the DIY site there are kits out there and lists of the stuff you need to get to make it yourself.

There is also a fairly inexpensive one on Amazon:

Amazon product ASIN B00JYAIS9W
I was looking into it, but it is designed for much smaller panels than I am using

 

[fpgt72]

There is also a fairly inexpensive one on Amazon:

Amazon product ASIN B00JYAIS9W
I was looking into it, but it is designed for much smaller panels than I am using

And there are issues with it as well. Some folk have done bearings for all the pivot parts and such. I have looked into that it is sized for my application.

There are a couple youtube videos on the issues with them.

 

[MadDuner]

Absolutely great thread!
Thank you all for taking the time to demonstrate and describe you systems!

I built a small system on a trailer to make it easily portable for a backup system for home, and also for use at a weekend retreat in the woods. It was originally configured to maintain power for my mother’s oxygen generator.

The system is only utilizing a 2800w pure sine inverter, but between the three 350w panels (that only make 250 in the heat) and the four LiFePo4 200ah each batteries - it seems to work well as a valid test. The trailer tongue jack allows for simple “aiming” to follow the sun as needed.

The panels stow folded up on hinges for transport. And the “free space” in the compartment below the panels that isn’t taken up by batteries - holds a small 2000w gas powered Honda inverter, and some long 12-gauge extension cords.

 

[Cardboard55]

Things could hit a snag if Joe's plan to put giant sun-blocking structures in space goes through...

Biden backs plan to BLOCK the sun in bid to limit global warming

President Joe Biden (pictured) has indicated he is open to an audacious 'geoengineering' plan to block sunlight from the earth, which some scientists warn could have devastating side effects.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[MadDuner]

Things could hit a snag if Joe's plan to put giant sun-blocking structures in space goes through...

Biden backs plan to BLOCK the sun in bid to limit global warming

President Joe Biden (pictured) has indicated he is open to an audacious 'geoengineering' plan to block sunlight from the earth, which some scientists warn could have devastating side effects.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Those fucks will never grasp the idea of “unintended consequences”. Ever.

 

[nagantguy]

Looking into solar - lots of good ideas from the brain trust here , in Northern MI it’s not an ideal location as the sun gets scarce 6-9 months of the year and we get heavy snow and hail

file:///var/mobile/Library/SMS/Attachments/cd/13/FEB92730-4E45-40B0-9E38-3D89E0385D98/IMG_1071.heic

I also like the idea of mobile units or at least away from the house . My cousin is a firefighter in Ann Arbor MI- fag and green central. I asked about that thing I’d read online about fire fighters not going into a structure with burning solar panels. As I’ve heard read both ways yes and no. His answer was a hard “fuck no” “I’d rather do a meth lab or electric car fire” .
As house and both barns are heated with wood it is something for me in my situation to consider.
My best friend and hunting partner has some older less efficient panels on his his house in the upper peninsula of MI, he uses them mostly to run his ham radio and his converter or conversion unit looks like something from a low budget sci-fi flick. He’s handy and clever and knows just enough about everything to be dangerous or useful. And is lovingly known in the group as Cheap Fucker .
Sorry for the digression . Lots of good info from clever folks here enjoyed the read !!!!

 

[fpgt72]

I took this little short video of something someone on another forum wanted a closer look at. Figured you guys might enjoy it as well.

This is a little meter that I have the battery cable running through. It will show me battery voltage as well as the amps going in or coming out of the battery bank. The video shows what it does.

At the start it is showing around 2 amps, if you look at the line labeled out you will see the little arrow pointed to the left. The way I have it setup this shows that roughly 2 amps is "going into" the battery bank. I have a couple lights and a row of outlets on the inverter. You will hear a beep when I flip on the inverter and the little arrow will move to the right and 12ish amps are now coming out. That 12 is the draw out of the batteries.....kinda. You need to add in the 2 amps you are putting into the batteries to get the "real" number on the draw.

This is part of the fun for me. I can see just what I can run on the "break even" side of things. This is why I said you need solar cells over the entire mid west if you want to run the country on solar.....on a sunny day. They do make electricity, but seeing just what you can actually power with just the sun is pretty eye opening, that is one of the reasons I did this, to learn.

Onto the video.

 

[Aftermath]

I have started to look into sun tracking systems, I think it would be fun to make. I would do a small one, likely two panels, so everything would be fairly light. I could get away with bushings and not bearings that kind of thing.

I saw on the DIY site there are kits out there and lists of the stuff you need to get to make it yourself.

Years ago Popular Mechanics had a plan for one using an "eye" to track the sun. If I remember it was 2-axis. It would seek the sun by moving and finding the shadow on the eye and then moving back. In my opinion, too technical, too many little servos.

It is well known where the sun will come up and set and arc across the sky. There are mechanical setups that use that knowledge and track the sun where it is supposed to be, even on cloudy days and then resets over at sundown to receive the morning sun. They can also adjust daily for the sun season, little by little increasing or decreasing the angle.

I have a nephew I pan to sick on using one of the Arduino boards for this. Set the date, time and latitude, turn it on and be amazed. I would think you might have to fine tune once in a while, maybe leap year.

 

[n2ishun]

I realize this is an old thread....but I have a bunch of experience using solar.
Back when I was healthier I used solar when I snow birded for 4-5 months a year.....only solar with a small genset for those cloudy days.

Make yourself a rack type thing out of angle iron (ideally aluminum if the cost isn't too bad (metal scrap yards are ideal for that kinda shit)).
You can get some reasonable 8" or so inflatable caster wheels from Harbor freight for pretty cheap.
If it hails, wheel the sucker in.
If the sun changes position, roll the rack to best angle.
Make the tilt of the panels adjustable.
Profit.

I used marine wet batteries, Wally World has some that are 130Ah and work well.....maybe 1/4 the price of LiPo, if that.
Don't even bother with an inverter that is not full sine wave or you will be killing every electronic device you plug into the system.

I have a feeling y'all are a little optimistic about the degradation of the panels. Sure the 1st year or 3 there is very little degradation, but successive years it's a whole lotta mo.....I'd wager at 6-8 years they degrade by 10% a year, or more.
You might think you're being a thrifty fucker, but stupidity and thrift are interchangeable at some point....don't save 50 cents to turn around and waste $100.

You can get a fairly decent hydraulic crimper from Scamazon for about $30-40 for those battery cables and be thankin yer gods every time you use it.
Clean wiring, tight crimps, solid connectors, good COPPER wire (don't be a poor here) will give best results.

 

[Gunfighter14e2]

FWIW, a BIG genset run on gas, LP, or NG can easily be run on wood gas. Called pyrolysis. Just need the "reactor" for the wood gas.
It can also be stored like LP.

This one has interchangeable hearths & air flow and can fuel anything between a 6.5 HP rope start, up to my flat bed powered via a S/B Chevy. It is also plumed w/a compressor draw port so when fired up for any resip, gas can be drawn off to be stored. I keep my panels & all related stored (prying eyes) and I hope I never need them.

 

[eca7891]

LiFePO4 batteries have, as I see it, two major downsides:
1. Cost. They have a significant initial outlay per watt/hour but this can be justified in that they can be discharged well below a comparable lead acid/agm battery without damage or lifespan reduction. Couple this with them lasting upwards of 7000 charge cycles they will likely outlast me.

2. Cold weather charging. They should not (and ideally with have circuitry so they cannot) be charged below freezing as it will damage the battery. My shop is in the Rockies at 8200' and several times last winter it was below 0 when I walked in.

The only workaround I have been able to think up is to enclose my 'solar shop' in an insulated room within the larger shed, then build an even more insulated battery box within that. Then run a low-wattage heater (7-15 watts) off the inverter to keep them if not warm, then above freezing. The batteries being used will also generate heat, so it should be doable. Still researching that one though.

All that being said, you could build a much larger system for the same cost using agm, or a similar sized but not as capable one for less money. All depends on one's needs though.

They have “battery blankets” for that. You run them right off the battery.

I keep mine in a climate controlled environment so it’s a non-issue.

 

[fpgt72]

They have “battery blankets” for that. You run them right off the battery.

I keep mine in a climate controlled environment so it’s a non-issue.

Over the winter we hit -26F for outdoor air temp. When the wind blew it was fooking cold.

What I did was use some heated pads, the kind you stick to the bottom on holding tanks on motor homes and RV's. I put those under my batteries and then covered with a moving blanket. Inside the shop I had left a bottle of water, frozen solid and swelled to the point I am shocked it did not bust. Put my hand under the blanket and it was "warm". Realistically I would bet it was about 40F but that is just fine.

I have not updated the system in a bit. I do still need to mount the 3 axis tracker, but now the wife bought a bunch of fruit trees I need to plant. I will get there one day.

I still manually switch to solar when I go into the shop. Now that I have added an on demand hot water heater for the shop that has kicked me over the edge. If I am running everything ~140A coming out of the battery bank, if that hot water heater kicks on it will go into overload and the inverter will trip. On the plans is to run a specific circuit for both the water heater and the belt sander, I just have not got there yet. So much to do.

When I finally get around to digging the hole for the 3 axis mount I will update it here.

 

[Rthur]

Any experience with vehicle mounted/camping versions?
Panel/s with portable power stations.
Anyone?

Looking into the above.

R

 

[eca7891]

Over the winter we hit -26F for outdoor air temp. When the wind blew it was fooking cold.

What I did was use some heated pads, the kind you stick to the bottom on holding tanks on motor homes and RV's. I put those under my batteries and then covered with a moving blanket. Inside the shop I had left a bottle of water, frozen solid and swelled to the point I am shocked it did not bust. Put my hand under the blanket and it was "warm". Realistically I would bet it was about 40F but that is just fine.

I have not updated the system in a bit. I do still need to mount the 3 axis tracker, but now the wife bought a bunch of fruit trees I need to plant. I will get there one day.

I still manually switch to solar when I go into the shop. Now that I have added an on demand hot water heater for the shop that has kicked me over the edge. If I am running everything ~140A coming out of the battery bank, if that hot water heater kicks on it will go into overload and the inverter will trip. On the plans is to run a specific circuit for both the water heater and the belt sander, I just have not got there yet. So much to do.

When I finally get around to digging the hole for the 3 axis mount I will update it here.

Those on demand draw a ridiculous amount of electricity. From the ones I have seen you will never run one off solar. Perhaps you have a super small one?

I run a miniature version on my camper. I can run the microwave or ac on it but not both.

 

[fpgt72]

Those on demand draw a ridiculous amount of electricity. From the ones I have seen you will never run one off solar. Perhaps you have a super small one?

I run a miniature version on my camper. I can run the microwave or ac on it but not both.

The efficiency of the inverter really comes into play here. Who made the inverter is a thing, the better inverters are more efficient. You also need to size it right. A general rule of thumb is they are most efficient at around 70% of their rated capacity. I currently have a 3000w 120v inverter. If I am running all lights, chargers for the battery tools, really things you think of as "always on" I am pulling out roughly 120a out of the battery bank. If I have all that stuff on, and the hot water heater kicks on, it will trip the internal protection and power down the inverter. Turn off a few lights and I am fine.

My system started with one battery, one 100w solar panel, a 10a charge controller and a 600w inverter. It has grown as I have wanted to do more with it.

That is one downside, I started this as something to play with, then it turned into something I actually use. So I have had to grow the system as I have wanted to run more stuff.

Currently it is snowing here, this weekend it is to be 70. Provided my body is not in shambles I hope to do the post for the 3 axis tracker. I will post photos of that setup.