My son wants to build an AR over the summer...

[Wannashootit]

My 18 yr. old son wants to build an AR in the next couple of months before starting college. It was my suggestion as a "cool" summer project before buckling down to the books (yeah...right...)

We've got bolt guns (target rifles), handguns, and an AK and Mini that we like to play with, but no AR yet.

I thought that building himself would be fun, and maybe save him some money in the process. The market is pretty crowded and competitive right now, and if he knows where to look and find some "sale" or "closeout" components, it might work out.

Right now he sees no reason to go with anything other than 5.56/.223.

Is there a way (such as looking for a milspec requirement) to weed out the junk, vs. a decent quality part at a good price?

This may have been asked before, so if there's a thread floating around out there on "building your first AR", please steer me to the link.

Thanks.

 

[lazy21]

Re: My son wants to build an AR over the summer...

you know what would be awesome for you to do, fill out a form 1 and surprise him with a SBR. Put your name and his on the trust so you both can have possession of the weapon.

 

[jbailey]

Re: My son wants to build an AR over the summer...

I found this guide pretty useful

http://www.midwayusa.com/Static/ar-15VarmintRifleInstructions.aspx

 

[Hawk45]

Re: My son wants to build an AR over the summer...

Budget will be the big factor.. Lots of good vendors on the Hide that have all the parts you need. Look in the vendor section and support our guys. Sounds like a great project.

 

[jbailey]

Re: My son wants to build an AR over the summer...

This one is also pretty good

http://www.mdshooters.com/showthread.php?t=23086

 

[Wannashootit]

Re: My son wants to build an AR over the summer...

Thanks for the input, guys.

Good point about supporting the vendors that support our site.
Will do.

Lots to learn...
As said, it all comes down to budget. We didn't really nail anything down yet, but I think we'd like to stay somewhere around a grand for the "base" rifle, then add sights, optics(s), lights, etc.

We all know there's "quality" and there's "QUALITY". Just trying to strike the right balance of cost, reliability, and durability.

Given all that's involved, it may be easier to ask here..."what NOT to do..."?

 

[Inogame]

Re: My son wants to build an AR over the summer...

A grand is a good budget, what I mean is you can build a fine AR for that.

That budget I'd suggest a nice matched stripped upper/lower set. I think bigjoe is doing another hide group buy.
Build the lower up first, nice trigger good stock. I built my first lower about six months ago. I was surprised how simple it was.

It'll be a fun father son project, very cool.

 

[aquinas]

Re: My son wants to build an AR over the summer...

r-guns has lowers for $65. Manufactured by Delaware Machine in Muncie Indiana. Just put one together with no issues.

r-guns also makes their own lower kit for 60 bucks. Trigger is pure stainless and I tried it side by side with a DPMS and it's way better. My next lower kit will be from r-guns.

www.rguns.net

 

[Pusher591]

Re: My son wants to build an AR over the summer...

Rainier arms, bravo company USA, and adco fiirearms carry many well made parts. I order from them for all my AR stuff.

I have just about every AR set up you can have.

 

[whiskeytangofox]

Re: My son wants to build an AR over the summer...

Are you looking to build a carbine or a rifle?

 

[msalm]

Re: My son wants to build an AR over the summer...

Just don't skimp on the barrel or trigger, those two things will make an accurate AR.

 

[mateofeo85]

Re: My son wants to build an AR over the summer...

On my current AR build, I bought many of the components from the Hide post exchange. Looking for "Like new in box" items ended up saving a noticeable amount on parts and produced a fine weapon.

The prices most honest sellers/buyers post will reflect a realistic "open box" or "LNIB" discount. And if you can find someone selling an entire "garage sale" of parts, you'll save quite a bit on shipping.

 

[Wannashootit]

Re: My son wants to build an AR over the summer...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: whiskeytangofox</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Are you looking to build a carbine or a rifle? </div></div>

One of the many basic things we need to decide.
Given our current shooting, accuracy is going to be important. While he may not insist on MOA, I think under 2 is going to be a realistic requirement.

I would assume the 20" barrel is going to have an edge in that dept (or not??)., then it comes down to the weight trade-off...bull barrel?

 

[Hawk45]

Re: My son wants to build an AR over the summer...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: msalm</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Just don't skimp on the barrel or trigger, those two things will make an accurate AR. </div></div>

+100
Spend most of your budget here.

 

[Oodin]

Re: My son wants to build an AR over the summer...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Wannashootit</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I would assume the 20" barrel is going to have an edge in that dept (or not??)., then it comes down to the weight trade-off...bull barrel? </div></div>
Quality of barrel generally has more to do with accuracy than length does. Gas system and weight play a role in shootability. Length is for balance, velocity and maneuverability.

I love my 16" Chrome Moly HBAR w/ mid length gas system. It's a little over MOA with me behind the trigger.

ETA: Free-float is probably the best thing you can do for accuracy in an AR (after trigger and barrel)

 

[Wannashootit]

Re: My son wants to build an AR over the summer...

Thanks again, guys.
He's done a few days research, here's what he's looking at so far. Really appreciate any input...how's he doin'?

Barrel: Beaver Creek 16", 1 in 9.
Free Float Handguard: YHM, 9630DX
Gas block: YHM 9394
Gas tube: DPMS 9-3/4"
Flash hider: Bushmaster 1Z-102660-STH
Upper: DS Arms stripped Flattop
Stripped Lower: Spikes BST15, .154 hammer/trigger pin holes, .250 takedown pivot holes
Forward assist kit: DPMS UR08R
Charging handle kit: Bravo BCM GFHMOD4
Bolt kit: DPMS BCBA1AS
Buttstock: Magpul MAG6400BLK

Need suggestions for lower parts kit to fit the Spikes receiver??

Any other suggestions that would save $$, for comparable or better quality, please?

 

[skeeter1223]

Re: My son wants to build an AR over the summer...

I just finished building my first ar. Took me a few months but you can't replace the I did it myself feeling. I found midway usa very helpfull because of the reviews were pretty dead on.

 

[jackinfl]

Re: My son wants to build an AR over the summer...

Wannashootit,
Do you have all of the specialty tools needed to assemble an AR? I ask this as it is quite a large investment for the single gun owner.

My honest best advice to you and your son are to look at assembled uppers and assembled lowers.

Noveske, Centurion Arms, Bravo company USA all build excellent uppers (and lowers for that matter).

If accuracy is your goal look into SS barrels from these companies.

You will save the FET if you buy a lower and a upper separately and push the pins your self.

I'm limited by policy on what guns I can use at work. I have a 10.5" LMT upper on an Armalite lower that runs like a proverbial sewing machine. I also have a 16" Noveske Recon upper on a Smith and Wesson Lower with Geissle trigger that is as accurate as i can be out to 600.

Look at what is available from the factory before you take the plunge and cost of buying all of your own tools. The tools add up quickly.

Jack

 

[Wannashootit]

Re: My son wants to build an AR over the summer...

Thanks for the advice, Jack.
One of the members here that's local to me sent me a PM and generously offered to lend the assembly tools if needed. How cool is that?

I need to do the research on my own as well to see what is involved. Obviously, I'll need to be doing the build with him and ultimately I'll bear the responsibility of being sure it's assembled with the correct components, and done so SAFELY. Barrel installation, headspacing, etc. is something I'm not familiar with on the AR, so I've got quite a bit to learn.

Your point about buying assembled is well taken.
However, I think this is going to be a bit more of a learning experience, and just doing a project together than viewing it strictly from a cost standpoint.

With all of the information available, and the generous help from the members here, I'm confident it'll be a worthwhile endeavor.

 

[jackinfl]

Re: My son wants to build an AR over the summer...

You are right that is one hell of a project for you two. Getting there is the fun of the trip, I get it.
Enjoy!

 

[branson1369]

Re: My son wants to build an AR over the summer...

Highly recommend Glen Zidekers Compettive AR Builders Guide. It is not only good for the build but also tuning and keeping the gun running

 

[Wannashootit]

Re: My son wants to build an AR over the summer...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: branson1369</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Highly recommend Glen Zidekers Compettive AR Builders Guide. It is not only good for the build but also tuning and keeping the gun running </div></div>

Thanks for the suggestion. I'm ordering some supplies from Midway this weekend and just added it to my cart...

 

[Inogame]

Re: My son wants to build an AR over the summer...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Wannashootit</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Barrel: Beaver Creek 16", 1 in 9.
</div></div>

I would recommend at least 1 in 8 twist. For heavier bullets.

 

[Wannashootit]

Re: My son wants to build an AR over the summer...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Inogame</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Wannashootit</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Barrel: Beaver Creek 16", 1 in 9.
</div></div>

I would recommend at least 1 in 8 twist. For heavier bullets. </div></div>

That's worth considering.
His current target stick is a Rem. 700 VTR in .223 with a 1 in 9. He doesn't currently shoot anything heavier than the 69 SMK's (I handload for us), which stabilize fine with the 9 twist.

I don't see him wanting to go long-range with this, so other than that option is there an advantage to the heavier pills?

Also, I just wanted to say that the help and suggestions so far has been phenomenal- all the guys on this board are extremely helpful. I've gotten a number of PM's on this as well... so <span style="font-weight: bold">THANK YOU</span> from both of us...

 

[branson1369]

Re: My son wants to build an AR over the summer...

Since you reload the best value on 223/5.56 bullets is MOntanna Gold 55 gr FMJ. I have had good perforamnce in 3 gun matches out to 300 yds and practice out to 500 yds on steel with them

 

[whiskeytangofox]

Re: My son wants to build an AR over the summer...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Wannashootit</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: whiskeytangofox</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Are you looking to build a carbine or a rifle? </div></div>

One of the many basic things we need to decide.
Given our current shooting, accuracy is going to be important. While he may not insist on MOA, I think under 2 is going to be a realistic requirement.

I would assume the 20" barrel is going to have an edge in that dept (or not??)., then it comes down to the weight trade-off...bull barrel? </div></div>

If you want accuracy your going to have to shoot something other than a 55 gr FMJ. 2 MOA is a realistic expectation with that bullet. To do it right you need to decide if you want a rifle or a carbine. Those are 2 completely different rifles for 2 completely different roles. In my opinion it doesn't work out when you try to use carbine as a rifle and the other way around.

My suggestion for a carbine:
Palmetto state armory MOE lower kit and lower
Bravo Company 16" mid length upper receiver group
Magpul Mid length MOE hand guard
Bravo Company BCG and CH

If that isn't under a $1000 it will be awful close.

ETA: if he already has a 700 in .223 I would suggest a carbine instead of a rifle.

 

[Chris@InterstateGuns]

Re: My son wants to build an AR over the summer...

parts list looks g2g. keep us in th loop and post some pic of the build process and range report. i like reading stuff like this.

 

[Wannashootit]

Re: My son wants to build an AR over the summer...

Progress Post as requested...
First, a shameless plug to Dave Branson (Branson 1369) of BB Enterpises who is providing most of our build parts...very helpful and responsive, not to mention great pricing

...

Question for you guys...
I ordered the barrel and handguard myself, and made a boo-boo...
We decided to go with an 18" barrel, but I mistakenly got the carbine length handguard.

The gas block/sight is the YHM 9395- I can't tell from the pics how much of the block is to the rear of the gas port; trying to determine how much of a gap we're going to have for the exposed gas tube...

If anyone has this gas block and can give me a measurement, I'd appreciate it.

Aesthetics aside, does the gas tube (yes, Dave correctly ordered me the mid-length) need the protection of the hanguard, or is it "sturdy" enough for an inch or two to be exposed?

Rather than wait until the rest of the parts get here, I'd rather exchange (or just keep it for a future carbine build) the handguard for the longer one now if I need to do it rather than hold up the works. My son is leaving for college in a month (sob!) and I don't want to hold things up...

Advice?

Anyway, here is the finalized parts list. A 6.5 Grendel on a budget- around $1100 (nic tools). Got lucky and got the barrel on closeout at Midway. Which reminds me- Midway gives pretty decent discounts if you have an 03 FFL- making their pricing pretty tough to beat on some items.

Spikes Tactical stripped lower
DPMS LRPK-1 lower parts kit
DS Arms stripped upper w/M4 feed ramps
YHM 9630-DX Diamond Free-Float Handguard
YHM 9395 Gas block
DPMS URPK-1A3 upper parts kit
BL-04C mid length gas tube/BL-03 pin
CS-09-DOD-A Carbine buffer assy
UR-19-GFH3 BCM charging handle
CS-MAG401 Magpul MOE stock
BT-19 bolt carrier
BT-14 FP and BT-16 FP retaining pin
AR/Stoner 18" SS barrel (with bolt), 1 in 8 twist, 6.5 Grendel
AR/Stoner talon flash hider

And of course, the Zedicker's book that everyone recommended..

Hopefully the guts are being shipped from DPMS today.....

 

[prplhaz72]

Re: My son wants to build an AR over the summer...

I would say get the correct handguard. You will want that to have protection.

 

[PowerstrokeOBX]

Re: My son wants to build an AR over the summer...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lazy21</div><div class="ubbcode-body">you know what would be awesome for you to do, fill out a form 1 and surprise him with a SBR. Put your name and his on the trust so you both can have possession of the weapon. </div></div>

Does this work for supressors too?

 

[phxfa]

Re: My son wants to build an AR over the summer...

yes, anything class 3