My TKiv85 reproduction just got a huge boost.

[USMCsean]

I’ve been sourcing info and original parts for a Finnish Tarkkuuskivääri 85, or Finnish Sniper rifle model 85, for over a decade. It’s been a casual passion of mine for even longer.

But I recently was able to source the field stock, in addition to the competition stock I’ve had for quite some time. The field stock was adjustable in length of pull and adjustable in check weld via wooden shims. The stock has a UIT rail on the underside of the forearm and a short section on the left hand side of the forearm. Both spots are available to use for adjusting the location of the sling and the bottom rail is used for installation of the bipod.

The competition stock has had some of these features removed to allow the use of irons sights instead of optics; very similar to the same line of thinking as the US M24. The field stock is slightly shorter. Has a slightly different profile tan than the field stock. The competition stock is more akin to previous target rifles the Finns made, ie; M27/66 or M28/76. There are no provisions for adjusting the length of pull or comb.

I have feelers out for some additional items needed to help me complete this. Outside of Finland, there are only a few singular examples and completed using some substitute parts. My goal is to use as many parts as possible and be the most correctly made example.

 

[LR308guy]

Interesting project, I love the Swedish and Finnish rifles, I wish I had a bank account large enough to support my interest, put a last it was not meant to be. Looking forward to seeing more when it is completed. Good luck.

 

[USMCsean]

The scope is a Schmidt & Bender 4X zoom by 36mm objective lens. It features a typical European reticle with a single post that extends halfway to the middle of the field of field and two horizontal stadia.

The scope has a BDC elevation adjustment that was calibrated for the D-166 bullet that’s 200 gr .310 diameter, FMJ BT traveling around 720m/s. The D-166 has been around since 1936 and was the choice of Civil Guard shooters before the war and then became the choice for the main Finnish army with the advent of the M39 rifle during the war. Its service with the Finnish army continues to this day.

The mount is equipped with rough windage adjustment that’s calibrated. You can see the dots around the rear adjustment screws allow for precise adjustment. The mount is sort of crude in that the front ring pivots and the rear moves left and right by the left and right adjustment screws. Loosen one side and tighten the other to lock in the adjustment.

 

[USMCsean]

The rifle utilizes a very unique bedding system that completely free floats the rifle’s action and barrel inside the stock. The system was designed by a gentleman named Erkki Toro. It tells the user the bullet the rifle was designed to shoot along with the name of the rifle engraved on the top flat of the bedding block.

This bedding block is sandwiched between the shoulder of the rear of the barrel and the face of the receiver. It is similar to a Mk13 Mod 0/3 recoil lug, but it completely envelopes the barrel around in a hexagonal shape. It sits in a bedding material that allowed complete bedding of each block to each stock.

 

[Random Guy]

Congrats on getting that issued stock(!). That is going to be a very nice example when done. I've never seen that scope case, but looks like a neat accessory. I saved this picture which shows the various permutations (none of this is my mine, but I liked this picture). Good luck finishing it(!).

 

[USMCsean]

Yeah, that picture is from my buddy Antti over in Finland. He took that many years ago. He was the one who helped me start this endeavor.

As for the base, I'll make a follow-up post about it and the mount. Waiting on the trigger right now.

 

[USMCsean]

Here we have the M85 scope mount. This mount is very similar to the same mounts used on the M27/66 and M28/76. There are subtle differences. One is the thickness and knurling of the tensioning knob.

The scope mount utilizes a tapered dovetail system. The mount slides into the tapered dovetail on the base from the rear and slides forward. The tensioning knob is then turned and pushes downward with a threaded stud. This then pushes the mount upward into the dovetail. Under recoil, the mount will be pushed forward, making it tighter and tighter. The tension can be eased up by loosening the knob. After which, the removal lever on the right will pivot against a pin to push it rearward off the base.

This mount is marked with the particular arsenal, AV1, that made it. AV1 stands for Asevarikko 1, or Weapons Depot 1 which was located in Kuopio, Finland. Some of these mounts can be marked RVL, which stands for Rajavartiaitos, or Border Guards. You can think of them akin to the US Homeland Security. It is also marked with the castle tower, or rook, to indicate Finnish army property. This mark replaced the SA marking in the late 50s or early 60s.

The mount is commonly found with the scope SN marked at the rear. Allowing one to check that the mount and scope match each other. I can say with confidence that over time, the mounds and scopes were changed out and no longer matched.

 

[USMCsean]

With the scope and mount so easily removed, they needed something that could protect them during these times of non-use.

These cases were made of the commonly used green dyed, reindeer leather, that was used for many Finnish military leather goods. You can see that the scope and mount sit on two wooden blocks lined with green leather. These wooden blocks are secured to the leather covered, wooden slat in the bottom of the case. There is a small loop on the bottom of the case that allows the sniper to carry the optic on their belts or secure it to their pack.

There is a small projection on the right the allows the projection from the removal lever to sit in. Lastly, the cover is secured with three straps using buckles.

Most of the times you can see the scope serial number written in black marker and also the castle marking stamped with black ink indicating Finnish military property.

 

[jwSubMOA]

Love your project! I sold my parts to a member here but can't remember who. It had the military stock, brand new and never used. In fact that photo Random Guy posted is literally the parts I bought from Finland. I got everything but the upper stock and the lower competition stock. I still have one NOS Toro block and one original match trigger. FYI if you don't already know, the reciever has to be slightly machined to accept the Valmet trigger. If building one of these, a scope base equipped M28-76 is the preferred base to start with. All of the machine work is done minus the cocking piece mod and the bolt handle is slightly different. Some M28-76 rifles are machined for the Valmet trigger. Good luck and please pm if I can help.

 

[WolfmanReid]

What is the story with the bipod for these? I’ve seen a decent number of parts for them loose in the wild but never the bipod. It’s needed for a complete clone right?

 

[towerofpower93]

The scope is a Schmidt & Bender 4X zoom by 36mm objective lens. It features a typical European reticle with a single post that extends halfway to the middle of the field of field and two horizontal stadia.

The scope has a BDC elevation adjustment that was calibrated for the D-166 bullet that’s 200 gr .310 diameter, FMJ BT traveling around 720m/s. The D-166 has been around since 1936 and was the choice of Civil Guard shooters before the war and then became the choice for the main Finnish army with the advent of the M39 rifle during the war. Its service with the Finnish army continues to this day.

The mount is equipped with rough windage adjustment that’s calibrated. You can see the dots around the rear adjustment screws allow for precise adjustment. The mount is sort of crude in that the front ring pivots and the rear moves left and right by the left and right adjustment screws. Loosen one side and tighten the other to lock in the adjustment.View attachment 8186502

I didn't realize the D-166 has been around that long. I still use them in my 7.62x54R loads and that bullet, resting on top of 42.7gr of IMR-4064 and lit by a CCI #34 primer in a PPU case, has given me my tightest groups from my KBI imported SVD.

 

[Waltjaevel]

Beautiful project. I started my sniper course with this weapon system and had the S&B tube before Zeiss for a while

 

[USMCsean]

What is the story with the bipod for these? I’ve seen a decent number of parts for them loose in the wild but never the bipod. It’s needed for a complete clone right?

Yes, I would definitely like to find the bipod. I'd be happy to hear on what you might have found.

 

[USMCsean]

Beautiful project. I started my sniper course with this weapon system and had the S&B tube before Zeiss for a while

I'd love to hear about your time served with the rifle. Do you happen to have any parts? LOL

 

[Waltjaevel]

I'd love to hear about your time served with the rifle. Do you happen to have any parts? LOL

Heh, none which I own though.

I don't think history will be too mad for you If you don't replicate the bipod 100%. It's a SOP to remember to tighten them because they guaranteed kept loosening up due the recoil.

Although it remained long in service (still is in some parts of FDF), it was also the weapon used to learn the fundamentals of rifle shooting. It was also equipped with Simrad NVG mounted on top of the scope

 

[USMCsean]

I have a sickness. And that requires me to be 100%.

I'd love to see any pictures you might have. I have never seen a picture with these being used with a SIMRAD. I'd definitely like to see how the mount was modified to be able to handle the weight of that unit.

 

[Waltjaevel]

I have a sickness. And that requires me to be 100%.

I'd love to see any pictures you might have. I have never seen a picture with these being used with a SIMRAD. I'd definitely like to see how the mount was modified to be able to handle the weight of that unit.

Yeah, I get that 100% - Let me check if I have some old photos. Or I can pay the armoury a visit.

No big modifications to the mount. Simrad KN-252 on the scope if I remember correclty. FDF has those modified scope ring upper portions with a pin where the NVG is attached, if you get the idea

 

[USMCsean]

I'd be up for both! Armory and old photos. And definitely any spare parts you might see around. sling keeper, cleaning kit items, bipod, etc.

 

[JEPN]

In the meantime, here's a crappy cell phone picture of an already small and grainy image of the Simrad kn 250 on a tkiv85. Pic source: Pauli Salo; Tarkka-ampuja 2

 

[Waltjaevel]

I stand corrected, it was KN-250.

Here is a photo of the front scope ring that has the attachment knob for the simrad

 

[USMCsean]

I stand corrected, it was KN-250.View attachment 8207428
Here is a photo of the front scope ring that has the attachment knob for the simrad

The Simrad didn't attach via a rail??? I don't understand how that small knob could support the weight of that unit.

 

[Waltjaevel]

The Simrad didn't attach via a rail??? I don't understand how that small knob could support the weight of that unit.

It attached to the knob and and the objective, so there is two support points. No issues