Need a lower ES do 6.5 creedmoor

[Brian Turner]

Hello all,

I’m looking for a powder with low ES for 6.5 creed. I am getting lapua brass tomorrow, but Starline small primer- with 6.5 staball and hybrid 100v I have never got anything less than 30-40 fps in ES - I am also looking for 2750 ish fps or above. Most everything seems to be reading pressure lower than that mark with a 140 grain eld-m or 147 grain eld-m. Is anyway getting 10-20 fps in their loads? Thanks - BT

 

[6.5SH]

Hodgdon H4350 would be the place to start.

 

[Brian Turner]

Hodgdon H4350 would be the place to start.

That’s what I’ve heard but Hodgon and Hornady say pressure at 2700 fps ?

 

[Ty21]

Books and websites are always lower that’s why it’s recommended that you charge until you hit pressure then back off. Then you know your pressure for your chamber.

 

[6.5SH]

Sorry, didn't pay attention to the velocity part. Seldom is the "fastest" load the best in regards to precision or consistency. For years factory Hornady 140 ELD-M was 2710 fps out of a 24" barrel and was the gold standard for 6.5 Creedmoor.

You are going to make compromises to get there when the "easy button" answer is a longer barrel.
One of the VV 5xx series powders might be the answer for you but that also comes with a shorter barrel life.

Check out the reloading sub forum here.

 

[Rio Precision Gunworks]

Books and website are always lower not so much because each chamber is different, but more so because most people are running at a higher pressure than they realize. Just because you don't get pressure signs doesn't mean you're not running close to or over saami max pressure. There are no "built in lawyers" in loading manuals and such. Those loads are literally where they were at or close to max saami. That being said, that also doesn't mean it's not safe to go over book max. Just understand the reasons aren't what most people think.

Also, realize what you're asking for when you want a 20fps ES. That would mean a sub 4sd. Which is extremely good ammo and may require more work than just good components and such.

You're requesting a very, very narrow window. You want a very fast velocity with your cartridge/bullet, and you want a very low SD.

 

[Brian Turner]

Sorry, didn't pay attention to the velocity part. Seldom is the "fastest" load the best in regards to precision or consistency. For years factory Hornady 140 ELD-M was 2710 fps out of a 24" barrel and was the gold standard for 6.5 Creedmoor.

You are going to make compromises to get there when the "easy button" answer is a longer barrel.
One of the VV 5xx series powders might be the answer for you but that also comes with a shorter barrel life.

Check out the reloading sub forum here.

I actually just put on a a 28” barrel, the main thing I notice there is a more complete burn of powder. With Hybrid 100v I can get good velo and no pressure my es is between 30 and 40.

 

[Brian Turner]

Bottom line, I’m switching to H4350-

 

[kthomas]

H4350 is a great place to start.

I agree that many people are running loads above what is traditionally considered to be safe pressures. I've been guilty of it as well. Be careful with others recipes on this site, because many are probably flirting with or are in pressure.

However, I think 2750 fps with 140's, especially out of a 28" barrel is okay. Factory loaded 140's will run faster than that. My personal load of 140's is 2850 fps in a 24" barrel, which is about 10 fps slower than factory loaded Hornady 140 AMAX ammo.

Using good reloading equipment and components, without any crazy reloading steps, it should be relatively straight forward to develop reloads that have an SD around ~7 fps. At least that's been my experience with the cartridge.

 

[Tcorb734]

You might try H4831sc. I've been getting around 4-5 SD at 2700fps out of a 24" with the 147 eld-m.

 

[Brian Turner]

You might try H4831sc. I've been getting around 4-5 SD at 2700fps out of a 24" with the 147 eld-m.

I may soon. I just bought some new Lapua Brass. I got more interested in shooting 4350 because I know a guy who is semi pro in f class, and uses 4350- gets low sd and es, and gets damn near 2800. I can get near 2800 with Hybrid 100v, and I may just deal with the higher es if i get the accuracy I want, which was really good. I watched a video the other day where a guy was shooting 140 bergers, and getting 2800 and had a very low es with the factory ammo. So i know it is possible, and I think a certain powder is a key. All from 24" barrel.

 

[Brian Turner]

H4350 is a great place to start.

I agree that many people are running loads above what is traditionally considered to be safe pressures. I've been guilty of it as well. Be careful with others recipes on this site, because many are probably flirting with or are in pressure.

However, I think 2750 fps with 140's, especially out of a 28" barrel is okay. Factory loaded 140's will run faster than that. My personal load of 140's is 2850 fps in a 24" barrel, which is about 10 fps slower than factory loaded Hornady 140 AMAX ammo.

Using good reloading equipment and components, without any crazy reloading steps, it should be relatively straight forward to develop reloads that have an SD around ~7 fps. At least that's been my experience with the cartridge.

I usually don't go above book much, but I did the other day and I was making half moon dents in my 7 prc. I try to stay bellow or at book usually. I just found that 140 and 147 out of my barrel seemed to group tighter at 2760 to 2780 - i just didnt have the es I wanted. I think there is a way to get both, but I need to tinker more to figure it out. I still have a bottle of hybrid 100v to get through before i start on my h4350. I'm going to play with my seating depth maybe.

 

[Tcorb734]

Good components are key ingredients in a great recipe. 2800 fps out of a 24" tube sounds pretty good. Hitting targets at distance is goal and good es/SD cannot be overlooked.

 

[Brian Turner]

Good components are key ingredients in a great recipe. 2800 fps out of a 24" tube sounds pretty good. Hitting targets at distance is goal and good es/SD cannot be overlooked.

Most days i shoot out to 600, sometimes 1000. I rarely miss anymore unless it's a smaller target past 600. I was really happy with Hybrid 100v, I may end up sticking with it. I want to test the most popular stuff to see if i can dial it tight. I'm shooting out of a 28" bartlein and i have been very happy with it.

 

[Tcorb734]

I'm also a fan of bartlein. I had a 28" on my 30-06. I was throwing 208eld at 2800 out of it. Around 20 mil of drop at 1 mile.

 

[Baron23]

That’s what I’ve heard but Hodgon and Hornady say pressure at 2700 fps ?

Their liability lawyers wrote that. It’s bullshit.

 

[918v]

Using small primers with ball powder is the likely cause of your high ES.

 

[Brian Turner]

I'm also a fan of bartlein. I had a 28" on my 30-06. I was throwing 208eld at 2800 out of it. Around 20 mil of drop at 1 mile.

I’m only doing custom barrels and custom actions from now on. I would shoot anything 5r , maybe even a 4 groove in a Brux or Krieger. I use a krg bravo, but I may start doing PRS. Not sure if I have the time for all that.

Using small primers with ball powder is the likely cause of your high ES.

I'm going to try both and see if that doesn't help. By everything I've read lately, small primers are better for accuracy , but i have tested nothing. Great observation, I will definitely try both.

 

[Rob01]

A 28" Bartlein will easily send a 140 ELD over 2750fps. Work up and it will be easy work. I use a 28" Bartlein on my Creedmoor and have used 28" since 2008 and you can get them near 2800fps pretty easy with H4350.

The original loading of the Hornady 140 AMA Creedmoor load was 41.5grns and was 2820fps from a 28" barrel. They later dropped to a 24" barrel on the box and adjusted velocity accordingly.

 

[Brian Turner]

That's amazing, thank you

 

[powdahound76]

Lapua LRP brass, fed 205s, and 41.3 of h4350 gets a 140 to 2850 from my 26” Bartlein.
2.800” length.
Basic Hornady dies and a Lee press.
I do use a mandrel vs expanding ball on the sizer.

At first I used a powder throw and hand trickle, now a rcbs chargemaster.

I do anneal now, but my SD has been 5 for a long time before annealing.
No fancy stuff or lame steps

Prolly Start a tad lower with Lapua brass.
That recipe Rob posted is for Hornady brass, different internal volumes.

FWIW I had issues with higher SDs with Staball 6.5 and actually got better velocity from h4350 when I compared them.