Need a spotting scope

Novak77

Novak77

Sergeant of the Hide
Full Member
Minuteman
Sep 16, 2018
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#1
Hey all,

First post here. Im sure this has been covered a ton before but.... What are everyones recommendations for a first time spotting scope? I've read great things about Kowa. Or should I save up a bit and get a Leopold Mark 4 (what I really want).

Thanks in advance
 
#2
Do you want to look cool, or actually get a ton of glass for the money?

If you want to be cool, then wait for the Mark 4.

If you want world class glass on the cheap, get and old Kowa TSN 1,2,3 or 4. ($350 - $500 on fleabay)

If you really want a steal on good glass, get a vintage Bushnell Spacemaster and put a 25x eyepiece in it. ($100 - $150)
 
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#4
1500varmint said:
Is the Spacemaster comparable with current production (higher priced) spotting scopes?
Click to expand...
If the Spacemaster were made today with the same glass and specs, it would cost $600+ maybe more.

There a few different generations of the Spacemaster. You want the Japanese models with the gray aluminum body without the rubber armor.

The black rubber armored Japanese models are good too, just not quite as good.

The Korean ones usually have camoflage rubber armor and are good beat around scopes (still better than the $300 and below stuff today) but not as good as the Japanese models.
 
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#5
I combined an $80 Orion 500mm focal length 90mm Maksutov Cassegrain telescope (sadly discontinued) with a $140 Lacerta 45° erecting prism diagonal and an $180 Arcturus Binoviewer to make a really poor man's Swarovski BTX 95.

I had it at the range a week ago and it gave a very nice view at 1,000 yards only screwed up by the tremendous amount of mirage present.

It made for very nice low strain spotting and shows that if you understand what makes a bad spotting scope, you can get a good one without spending thousands.
 
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#7
What will be its primary purpose? And whats your budget?

For spotting bulletholes on paper @ 100 yards, most anything will work.

For spotting bulletholes on paper at several hundred yards, spen some money on decent glass.

For spotting other shooters, reading mirage, rangefinding and spotting trace, especially if your not very experienced at, a reticle equipped spotter is nice.

Once you have your primary uses identified, youll get some more specific recommendations.

As was pointed out, a Kowa will make a great do-all spotter.

That said, if its within your budget, Athlon has a new Cronus tactical variable FFP reticle equipped spotter coming out soon.

Your budget and needs are going to be the biggest factors in picking a spotter.
 
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#8
ken226 said:
What will be its primary purpose? And whats your budget?

For spotting bulletholes on paper @ 100 yards, most anything will work.

For spotting bulletholes on paper at several hundred yards, spen some money on decent glass.

For spotting other shooters, reading mirage, rangefinding and spotting trace, especially if your not very experienced at, a reticle equipped spotter is nice.

Once you have your primary uses identified, youll get some more specific recommendations.

As was pointed out, a Kowa will make a great do-all spotter.

That said, if its within your budget, Athlon has a new Cronus tactical variable FFP reticle equipped spotter coming out soon.

Your budget and needs are going to be the biggest factors in picking a spotter.
Click to expand...

Primary use is going to be spotting holes on paper at several hundred yards. Glassing for game (I hunt). Lastly I'd like to learn how to range and spot trace .

Budget is in the $1-2k range.
 
#9
Skookum said:
Do you want to look cool, or actually get a ton of glass for the money?

If you want to be cool, then wait for the Mark 4.

If you want world class glass on the cheap, get and old Kowa TSN 1,2,3 or 4. ($350 - $500 on fleabay)

If you really want a steal on good glass, get a vintage Bushnell Spacemaster and put a 25x eyepiece in it. ($100 - $150)
Click to expand...

Looking cool always helps lol. But I would like to be able to range with a mil type reticle too.
 
#10
Novak77 said:
Looking cool always helps lol. But I would like to be able to range with a mil type reticle too.
Click to expand...
Ken226 has the Optolyth TBG 80. It is great glass, it is in your price range and a mil reticle is available for it. It is also large, and built like a tank (read heavy). It would not be the scope to take on a hunt.

For hunting I would choose a quality 60mm or even a 50mm.
 
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#11
I do love my optolyth, but as mentioned, a 60mm thats a little more compact and still has quality glass sounds like what your wanting.

Decide how important the reticle is to you. If its not important, you have near infinite options. Kowa gives you the best bang for the buck.

If you really want a reticle, look at the Leupold Goldring with either the Impact or mil reticle, the Leupold MK 4, or wait for the new Athlon Cronos tactical. (Theres a thread about it not far below this one)

If you wait ang buy the Cronos, definitely come back here and post a review. Im considering getting one, just waiting for some good reviews ;)

Somebodys gotta go first, right?
 
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#12
Skookum said:
Ken226 has the Optolyth TBG 80. It is great glass, it is in your price range and a mil reticle is available for it. It is also large, and built like a tank (read heavy). It would not be the scope to take on a hunt.

For hunting I would choose a quality 60mm or even a 50mm.
Click to expand...

That Optolyth looks like a beast. I spent time in the Army as an Infantryman, so I dig stuff that can take a beating if needed.

Should I be looking into two different spotting scopes? One for hunting and one for just shooting?
 
#13
Naturally, having one for each purpose would be ideal, but thats not usually realistic for those of us buying our own stuff.

One, good quality 60mm spotter would do most everything you need.

A Goldring, MK4 or Athlon Cronus Tactical would be able to do everything you have in mind.

A Kowa, Optolyth or some other 80mm would work as well, youd just give up an advantage in portability to gain one in spotting ability.

Everythings a compromise, just weigh the expected frequency of each activity and match it up to the scopes available.
 
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#14
My binoviewer setup is not well suited for hunting unless you didn't have to hike to your glassing spot so I'm planning on a set of laser range finder binoculars for my light weight setup.
 
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#15
How about the Meopta MePro 80mm HD or the Vortex Razor HD 85mm, been eying both of these lately, both about the same price & you can get both in a package deal with tripod, Camreland has the Meopta for $400.00 off.
 
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#16
TmisterE said:
How about the Meopta MePro 80mm HD or the Vortex Razor HD 85mm, been eying both of these lately, both about the same price & you can get both in a package deal with tripod, Camreland has the Meopta for $400.00 off.
Click to expand...

I've been eyeballing a Razor too, I'll check out the Meopta as well.
 
#17
I paid $600 for a used USO spotter on here. It's unique, it trades a narrower FOV for extra eye relief. It's USO so it has pretty good glass and you can hammer nails with it. It's more like a 15-45x scope with no adj. Mine has the GAPmil reticle, same as two of my longer range scopes. Nobody makes anything for 'em and I wanted a spotting/LRF day/night setup so I had to get creative and make my own. Different members made different parts for me, including the awesome mount that holds it all together. The PVS14 mount was really simple and free. The Mk5 LRF I really scored on, it's good to 6 miles and was only $400 on ebay. With tripod, and minus the PVS14 and PEQ2, this setup was only ~$1150. It's not for everybody but it works like a champ for what I use it for.
IMG_0875.JPG
I'd originally wanted a Hensoldt Spotter 60 (best there is for it's type) but a divorce ended that aspiration. The 60x Mk4 was one I looked at, it had a reticle and they also make a bunch of shit for those that they don't make for others, mounts and such. But in the end, I went with this since I wanted something rugged I could use in the field, and it's certainly that, and since I could afford it. Just gotta be patient and wait for those kinds of deals to pop up. Technically, this scope isn't a true spotter, technically it's an "observation" scope. But for it's intended use, that's fine. May make the LRF quick detach later on.

For work on the range or general viewing, the best I've used were the 60x Kowa spotters w/angled eyepieces on tall stands. It's what we used as instructors training SDM's to spot their trace and I swear to god, you could see that 5.56 round travel all the way downrange clear as day (looked just like that shit in the "Matrix" movie). No reticle, but great FOV, great glass, and if you took it a hair out of focus and used it at around half power, nothing, but nothing spotted trace to 1k+ like that thing did.

We had some rubber armored bushnells too, they were given to the students to use on the line in pairs but you couldn't spot shit with that thing. Better than nothing though.
 
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#18
Skookum said:
If the Spacemaster were made today with the same glass and specs, it would cost $600+ maybe more.

There a few different generations of the Spacemaster. You want the Japanese models with the gray aluminum body without the rubber armor.

The black rubber armored Japanese models are good too, just not quite as good.

The Korean ones usually have camoflage rubber armor and are good beat around scopes (still better than the $300 and below stuff today) but not as good as the Japanese models.
Click to expand...

Thanks again for the suggestion on the Spacemaster. I got one on eBay fr $89 that had an adjustable (20x - 45x) eyepiece. Coincidentally the 18x - 55x eyepiece from a cheap Amazon scope (that just bit the dust) also fits, so I have a backup if I ever need it.

This is a heavy/sturdy scope and the glass seems very clear. I only tried it in my neighborhood so I don't know how well it will see holes in paper, but right now the furthest I get is 300 yards so I think this will be fine.
 
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#19
I placed an order for the Athlon Cronus Tactical spotter some time back; was hoping to have it in time to use in a rifle match yet this season. Spoke with Matthew Denner on the phone at Athlon Friday on another matter, then remembered to ask about the Tactical spotter. From what he told me, I'm not expecting to see the one I ordered until November, maybe not until Dec. These are 7-42x60.
 
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#20
As I stated in another thread about this scope, IMO, Athlon did the right thing delaying the release. They found some things that needed to be "tweeked" and rather than releasing it and then 6-9 months later announcing an updated version they decided to do the upgrades before initial release. I think this makes great sense and shows that they are genuinely interested in putting out quality products and making sure their customers get the best optics.
 
#21
1500varmint said:
Thanks again for the suggestion on the Spacemaster. I got one on eBay fr $89 that had an adjustable (20x - 45x) eyepiece. Coincidentally the 18x - 55x eyepiece from a cheap Amazon scope (that just bit the dust) also fits, so I have a backup if I ever need it.

This is a heavy/sturdy scope and the glass seems very clear. I only tried it in my neighborhood so I don't know how well it will see holes in paper, but right now the furthest I get is 300 yards so I think this will be fine.
Click to expand...
You are welcome, which type of spacemaster did you get? Now if you can find a 25x fixed eyepiece for it, you will really see how good it is.
 
#23
1500varmint said:
The one I got is a Spacemaster II. Same as in this review - https://kenrockwell.com/tech/bushnell/spacemaster-ii.htm

I'm looking forward to trying it out at the range this week.
Click to expand...
Yeah, that's a good one. I have 5 in all, 3 of those type, one with the black rubber armor and 1 Korean one with the camoflage. The Korean one pretty much lives in my pack that I take with me everyday because I wouldn't mind so much if it got damaged.
 
#24
The group I shoot with we have 3 spotting scopes among us so far (the Athlon Cronus Tactical will be among us soon).
1st is a Kowa TSN-1(?), 2nd Leupold MK4(?), and 3rd a Bushnell Legend T-Series. All 3 have positives.
But my opinion is optically the MK4 and Kowa were neck and neck. The MK4 has a mildot retical, provides a crisp, bright image. The Kowa also offers a clear, bright image. Neither spotter gave eye fatigue or discomfort.
The Bushnell is great in it's own regard. Frankly, it's cheap and it WORKS. The image may not be quite as crisp as the other 2, but you can make hits on steel out at 800yds with some mirage. If you start maxing the magnification out (45x) it dims but keep it about 25x-35x and it's fine. I will admit though, I did experience quite a bit of eye fatigue using this optic but I was on the scope on-and-off for about an hour.
Maybe @jetmd could weigh in as well. He owns the Kowa.
 
#26
On a scale of 1 to 10, the big Swaro's being a 10... the big Kowas are a 9.5... the Leupolds are a strong 7.5 or an 8... the Spacemaster is a solid 7, and the T-series Bushnell is about a 5.
 
#27
The only drawback I can confirm is the Kowa does not have a reticle.

Keep in mind this spotter is 30 years old and has lived a hard life. But it has Never let me down.
The glass is still amazing.

The Leupold has some advantages: 1) Reticle 2) The exterior protective surface. 3) The availability of the Badger Ordnance SLICK if
you need that accessory.

Right now if I did not have a spotter and was looking to buy one the decision would weigh largely on wether or not I required a reticle and
how much money I had to spend.

I personally like a 45* eyepiece better than a straight hands down.
 
#28
jetmd said:
The only drawback I can confirm is the Kowa does not have a reticle.

The Leupold has some advantages: 1) Reticle 2) The exterior protective surface. 3) The availability of the Badger Ordnance SLICK if
you need that accessory.
Click to expand...
Some people really want that reticle, it annoys the shit out of me. When I'm calling for another person, I know how big the target is in MILS or MOA. If my wind call is close (and it should be) the miss will be close enough to use the target itself as a reference.

I've tried to use reticles in spotting scopes, and I find myself always trying to "look around" the reticle. When others are spotting for me with reticles, it annoys the shit out of me because instead of getting an immediate and timely correction, I hear them counting tick marks under thier breath.
 
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#29
Skookum said:
Some people really want that reticle, it annoys the shit out of me. When I'm calling for another person, I know how big the target is in MILS or MOA. If my wind call is close (and it should be) the miss will be close enough to use the target itself as a reference.
Click to expand...

Yeah, +1 on this. I can call corrections in mils on non-reticle binos. Just comes from familiarity with the target size and having made lots of corrections as a shooter behind the reticle of a scope.
 
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#30
I like the reticle for determining the speed of a moving target, for determining the size of a known distance target. I slso like having the ability to estimate range without a laser if i so desire.

I wouldnt buy a scope that had so much reticle that it blocked out anything. Its not a deal breaker, but there enough good scopes out there with a reticle that its worth a little extra money for me.

Its like touchscreens in a car, or heated seats. For some, its worth a few bucks more and for some its not. I can swap out the eyepiece for a reticle free view in about 10 seconds. Its presence or lack thereof isnt a big deal.
 
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#31
ken226 said:
I like the reticle for determining the speed of a moving target, for determining the size of a known distance target. I slso like having the ability to estimate range without a laser if i so desire.

I wouldnt buy a scope that had so much reticle that it blocked out anything. Its not a deal breaker, but there enough good scopes out there with a reticle that its worth a little extra money for me.

Its like touchscreens in a car, or heated seats. For some, its worth a few bucks more and for some its not. I can swap out the eyepiece for a reticle free view in about 10 seconds. Its presence or lack thereof isnt a big deal.
Click to expand...
Were your ears burning!:ROFLMAO: Get back to work!

That reticle you've got is about the only one that doesn't get in my way.
 
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#32
Watched.

I appreciate these types of threads.

The OP's question could have lead to recommendations for only higher priced scopes.

To see the recommendations for the SpaceMaster is refreshing that you guys are willing to give honest feedback on your experiences.

Anyone could recommend higher priced and world class ($1000+) items.

Looking to just enter into to shooting, with life and family obligations, I am restricted to buying lower cost (not necessarily lower quality) items.

Thanks again.
 
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#33
A little sneak peek......



We have a shipment of demo Kowa's in route to us. I wasn't going public with this list until they arrived, however, as a supporting vendor here and as this thread is happening.



These demo goods are optically and functionally 100%. Some are just stock balance items from other dealers, others were show samples. Full warranty and a great savings


Genesis 44 8.5x44mm Prominar XD GN44-8 Binoculars reduced from $1,350.00 to only $949.99



TSN-601 60mm Standard Spotting Scope - Angled Body reduced from $500.00 to only $374.99



TSN-602 60mm Standard Spotting Scope - Straight Body reduced from $500.00 to only $374.99



TSN-662 66mm Straight Spotting Scope Body in Grey reduced from $900.00 to only $699.99

TSN-664 66mm Straight Spotting Scope Body in Tan reduced from $900.00 to only $699.99



TSN-82SV82mm Standard Spotting Scope - Angled reduced from $800.00 to only $599.99



TSN-773 77mm Prominar XD Spotting Scope - Angled Body reduced from $1,600.00 to only $1,299.99



TSN-774 77mm Prominar XD Spotting Scope - Straight Body reduced from $1,600.00 to only $1,149.99



TE-11WZ 25-60X Wide Zoom Eyepiece reduced from $700.00 to only $549.99



TE-9Z 20-60x Zoom Eyepiece reduced from $350.00 to only $299.99



If there is anything you're looking for please give us a call at 516-217-1000. It is always our pleasure to speak with you. Always give a call to discuss options and what would be best for your needs
 
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#36
I have the older gen Vortex Razor HD 20-60x85...and I would have no problem recommending it. It's been discontinued and replaced, I haven't had the chance to compare it to the new version yet.
 
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#37
Just curious what the thoughts are on a used Bushnell Sentry for general range use and hunting spotter?
These can be bought very reasonably on Ebay and there are both Chinese and Korean manufacture available.
 
#40
Skookum said:
If the Spacemaster were made today with the same glass and specs, it would cost $600+ maybe more.

There a few different generations of the Spacemaster. You want the Japanese models with the gray aluminum body without the rubber armor.

The black rubber armored Japanese models are good too, just not quite as good.

The Korean ones usually have camoflage rubber armor and are good beat around scopes (still better than the $300 and below stuff today) but not as good as the Japanese models.
Click to expand...

Could you please tell more about different models. I’m having hard time distinguishing them. If there is black rubber, where would you see it?
 
#42
rubenhak said:
Could you please tell more about different models. I’m having hard time distinguishing them. If there is black rubber, where would you see it?
Click to expand...
Here is an example of an earlier Spacemaster2 w/ red badge. Great Japanese glass. This one is a little toasty for the price, but a representative specimen nonetheless:
https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/254001355771

Here is a later Japanese rubber armored one. Don't buy this one, they come around for less than half this price:
https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/302945975056

The eyepiece is important, I have the fixed 25x eyepieces on all of mine. It really makes these shine. The standard 15-45x is more than serviceable though.
 
#43
Skookum said:
Here is an example of an earlier Spacemaster2 w/ red badge. Great Japanese glass. This one is a little toasty for the price, but a representative specimen nonetheless:
https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/254001355771

Here is a later Japanese rubber armored one. Don't buy this one, they come around for less than half this price:
https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/302945975056

The eyepiece is important, I have the fixed 25x eyepieces on all of mine. It really makes these shine. The standard 15-45x is more than serviceable though.
Click to expand...

This was more than explanatory!

How would you compare the Spacemaster with Konus KonuSpot-100 20-60x100 ? I found Konus for $240. I know its more expensive than Spacemaster, but still within my budget.
 
#48
I picked up one just like that one about 2 weeks ago. Super happy with it. It came with the 25x eyepiece.

Skookum, do you know where to find additional eyepieces?

Also, any recommendations on a tripod and mount like the Vortex quick mounts?

For some reason, I cannot seem to find it with Google.
 
#49
Greg5611 said:
Thanks Doug, when does the promo for the Athlon Ares start/end?
Click to expand...
WarEagleFan said:
Also, any recommendations on a tripod and mount like the Vortex quick mounts?

For some reason, I cannot seem to find it with Google.
Click to expand...

It would be our pleasure to discuss tripos with you. Give a call, 516-217-1000, and speak with Joel our resident Tripod Guru. He can hook you up with something with a quick release plate
 
#50
WarEagleFan said:
I picked up one just like that one about 2 weeks ago. Super happy with it. It came with the 25x eyepiece.

Skookum, do you know where to find additional eyepieces?
Click to expand...
The eyepieces show up on fleabay occasionally. They are a prized find though. You will pay anywhere from $60-$80 for one. I just kept my eye out for them and bought them as they came up. Better yet, because those eyepieces were so popular, the scopes pop up pretty regular with the 25x eyepiece already on it, like the one you bought.
 
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