Need advice for 45apc

[lovetsx]

I need some advice. I just recently started loading for 45acp. All my other experience has been with bottlenecks.

I had bought the only 45 230 acp that I could find anywhere. They were speer JHP. Me and the daughter were at the range yesterday and half the rounds would not fit her Colt. It would not go into battery. They fired fine. Then she shot my chronograph. Anyways Tight group was 100fps faster then it was supposed to be and WSF was right on the money

When I got home I was watching TV and playing in the garage. I looked over and looked at the box I had been useing to reload. Then It hit me. They are .4515! Got the calibers out they measure .4513. Got some XTPs out and they measure .451.

Did we hurt the Gun?
Can I crimp more and make these rounds usable?
What do I do with two boxes of these. I just blow $50 I guess...

 

[treebasher]

Re: Need advice for 45apc

You are fine with a jacketed bullet that measures .451" to .452".

 

[lovetsx]

Re: Need advice for 45apc

Do I need to crimp more than? Turn my die down more? They fit my gun but won't fit her gun. You have to hit the back slide to get it to go into battery.

 

[treebasher]

Re: Need advice for 45apc

You may have the bullet seated out a bit to far and it is engaging the rifling.

I had the same thing with one of my pistols. My reloads would run fine in my gun but would not function in a friends pistol due to the bullet being seated out a little to far.

Load up a couple of dummy rounds and see if seating the bullet deeper fixes your problem.

 

[The Mechanic]

Re: Need advice for 45apc

You would be surprised what you can run through a .45. I like a pretty heavy crimp on my .45's you can never know what it will get smashed against. I often have a .50 box full of them so a good crimp keeps them bullets where they belong. You know you went to far when you fold (wrinkle) a sidewall

 

[kraigWY]

Re: Need advice for 45apc

As stated above, it sounds like your bullets are seated too far out, hitting the rifling now allowing your round to chamber propertly.

Take one of the rounds, mark it with a magic marker then try to seat it, you will see rifling marks on bullet if thats the case. If it is, you can just use the seating die and push it a little deeper. You're reloading manual should tell you the over all lenght for the bullet you're loading.

I hope you are using a taper crimp die, 45s head space on the mouth of the case.

You should check your ammo after reloading to make sure you they fit. Saves a lot of hassle and embarrisment.

 

[Victor N TN]

Re: Need advice for 45apc

Several companies that handle handloading equipment and components carry gauges for checking that everything fit. Before I got my stainless ones from Dillon I had a couple of older ones from Midway. I can't remember the manufacturer. But they were bad to rust. If you don't have the money for that pull the barrel from your daughters pistol and try EVERY load in her chamber. I did that for several years. But when you go to the range, you KNOW you'll have ammo that fits.

 

[Innovative]

Re: Need advice for 45apc

lovetsx ........

<span style="text-decoration: underline"><span style="font-weight: bold">KraigWY</span></span> is right about using a taper crimp die for your 45ACP. Measure diameter of one of your completed handloads (across the case with bullet installed). Then deduct .002" and <span style="text-decoration: underline">that</span> measurement is what the "tip" of your case should be when your taper crimp is done correctly.
[Don't use a roll crimp with the 45ACP.]

<span style="text-decoration: underline"><span style="font-weight: bold">Victor N TN</span></span> is also correct. Dillon makes some very good case width gauges for handgun calibers. Test all of your handloads to be sure they're perfect. It only takes about one second per case to check them.

- Innovative

 

[Powder_Burns]

Re: Need advice for 45apc

I really like Lee's collet factory crimp die. I've been using it for my 10mm loads and the collet inside the die will size the case as well as crimp the case without rolling the case mouth. If you get some bullet run-out, or a slightly bulging case, the lee fcd will get things back in shape for reliable feeding. Thats not to be assumed that the fcd is to be considered a fix for defective loads or things of that sort, but a nice thing to have. That being said I have not needed to really crimp any pistol rounds save for my .44 magnum loads, they are quite stout and bullet setback is possible from recoil.

 

[Top Cat]

Re: Need advice for 45apc

Your bullets are fine. You may be seating them too long, or you may be over belling your brass during the belling stage. All that is necessary is just a very slight expansion at the edge of the case...not even that much is really necessary for jacketed bullets. Too much belling will cause a swelling just below the mouth of the case that the crimp die may not remove, especially when using a roll crimp die. Most newer dies for 45 will come with a taper crimp, but even a taper crimp may not take out excessive belling. Use the magic marker method to find out where the problem lies, and use your calipers to measure the case to check the dimension where the interference is and fix it. A light tune up with a Lee factory crimp die will solve most problems except for a too long oal.

TC

 

[mavrick10_2000]

Re: Need advice for 45apc

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Powder Burns</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I really like Lee's collet factory crimp die. I've been using it for my 10mm loads and the collet inside the die will size the case as well as crimp the case without rolling the case mouth. If you get some bullet run-out, or a slightly bulging case, the lee fcd will get things back in shape for reliable feeding. Thats not to be assumed that the fcd is to be considered a fix for defective loads or things of that sort, but a nice thing to have. That being said I have not needed to really crimp any pistol rounds save for my .44 magnum loads, they are quite stout and bullet setback is possible from recoil. </div></div>

+1. Especially when shooting lead. The lube line on the bullets can misshape the brass near the mouth of the case causing feed failures. The lee die resolves it completely.

 

[randyp]

Re: Need advice for 45apc

I like to disassemble the pistol and use the barrel as a gauge. Your cartridge should fit just level with the hood of the barrel. You do not want it extending above the top of the shroud or below. Safe way to check without feeding live rounds thru the pistol.

Randy

 

[lovetsx]

Re: Need advice for 45apc

The Coal is within spec. I did check these in my barrel. My barrel is different. The shells drop 1/8 below the hood tang. But someone named Rad explain it all to me:
"You mentioned that your gun had some accuracy work done. This may have included refitting your factory barrel.

To do this the hood and locking lugs are welded and recut to fit tighter. In the process of refitting, the hood is made longer to take up the gap between the slide and barrel. Since the chamber is already cut to depth this would make it appear that the chamber is too deep when actully it is no deeper than it was from the factory.

you have a nice "old school" custom target pistol setup to shoot 200gr wadcutter at about 750fps. I would avoid shooting any factory ammo unless you respring it to accomodate the heavier load.

Shoot it and enjoy.

RAD"

 

[lovetsx]

Re: Need advice for 45apc

I do know that i had over belled some of the cases. Some looked like a trumpet! I guess I need to play with the die some more. I had tried several in her barrel and they fit fine. But when we got to the range Out of 40 eight would not chamber right. Thanks guys. So I must have over belled the cases and not crimped enough. RCBS taper crimp carbide dies.

So .4515 bullets are not to big?

There is a slight crease below the bullet like the bullet is to thick.

 

[918v]

Re: Need advice for 45apc

If uou overcrimp, the case buckles and grows larger in diameter, sticking the round in the chamber. Use the taper crimp die to remove the bell from the case mouth. Don't use it to roll the case mouth into the bullet shank. The ACP relies on case tension to hold the bullet in place.

 

[whackahog308]

Re: Need advice for 45apc

Others here have more experience than I, but with a match chambered 1911, I have had very similar problems to what you stated. I particularly had problems with "belling" out of the case mouth after using the die to flare out the mouth of the case. Once the case mouth was (maybe over)flared out to accept the new projectile I experienced problems getting the mouth of the loaded cartidge to size down evenly enough for the newly loaded round to fit in the chamber. Crimping an overflared case mouth only made the belling worse. I contacted RCBS and they suggested only a tiny amount of flaring of the mouth of the case was necessary. "Only enough so that the new projectile will sit on the case mouth as it awaits seating". I did this and the belling problems pretty much went away but not entirely.

I then found that if I chamfered the inside of the case mouth, the projectile would sit on the case mouth awaiting seating. I didn't need to use the die to flare the case mouth. I am sure that others would disagree but to avoid the flaring of the case mouth I simply chamfer the inside of the case mouth until the projectile will barely sit on the case mouth awaiting seating. It was a bit of work, but I havent experienced any belling problems since, nor have I noticed a detriment to the brass. Like you, Like you, I am using RCBS Tapered Crimp Carbide dies. I am no expert, and I would like to know if there is a better way, but the above worked for me for the time being. With the action open (and gun pointed in a safe direction) test drop in each new round. Good luck.

 

[bigwheeler]

Re: Need advice for 45apc

Get a lee factory crimp die if you are dealing with a true match chamber. Taper crimp to .470 diameter at the case mouth regardless of the die you are crimping with. I
always use a separate taper crimp die instead of using the seater die to crimp.

 

[whackahog308]

Re: Need advice for 45apc

Bigwheeler, Thanks for info. Seems like there must be something to those Lee factory crimp dies. The above described way I have been reloading my 45s has worked but is numbnuts slow...

The bright side of going slow: several months now of my reloading hasn't blown anything up (yet), which my better half likes to say I am going to do...

 

[Top Cat]

Re: Need advice for 45apc

The chamfering should be very slight, only enough to remove the sharp corner and round it slightly so that it doesn't scratch the bullet. A very slight flaring is enough even with lead bullets. The flaring can be slight enough that it is hard to tell the case is flared. I just use a standard taper crimp die in a separate station as well, the bullet seater die just brings the case wall back to straight.

TC

 

[lovetsx]

Re: Need advice for 45apc

Thanks guys. Here I thought it was my bullets that were to large. I over belled and the taper crimp was not enough. I guess I need to get a FCD. Were does it end! There is always something new to buy.....

 

[whackahog308]

Re: Need advice for 45apc

Big wheeler you were right. I happened to have a set of Lee dies laying around. I had decided before really trying them out that they might not be the best because of the cheap price, and so bouight a set of RCBS carbide.

Gave the Lees a workout today and my bulging/crimping problems went away and the rounds slide right in the chamber. Bulging problem is over. Thanks again. You were right about seating and crimping in using two different dies. Now...what progressive press do i want, a dillon or Horday LNL???