Need advice for the best in class for variable optic for 2 gun and general purpose 5.56

[ubadefense]

Hi, I am shopping around for a LPVO for competitive purposes for a 2 gun rifle. Shooting 14.5/12.5 and I want to no longer have issues when spinners, small targets, and distance comes into play. Optimally be able to take on low-light. I am assuming I will get a back-up canted or 12' red dot for close in shooting anyways. Shooting said rifle with NVGs would be neat, but frivolous as I'll probably rely on the dot anyways.

Budget is not really an issue, but happy to settle into a solution if legendary warranty or has capability that really kicks ass for its price-class in case the optic goes on more than one rifle. Happy to spend a 1k, happy to do 4k if it means actual performance on a timer and/dependable quality. I don't need nth term optimization for weight, as I think I can make up for that with lighter parts elsewhere, an optic that would survive the real world would be appreciated.

This is where the open-endedness comes into play. I do not care about FFP/SFP, reticle, max zoom. My main optic so far has been a Eotech 3-4 with a G33 and it has met its match when it comes to longer range shooting. Especially if image quality is needed for the competition, such as a spinner at 200 yards painted in camo. 50/200 zero has worked wonderfully... up to a point. I've also heard a lot about daylight brightness as an argument, but if the etched reticle is good enough I would not care.

I'd be happy for suggestions to go best-in-class, and also exceptional for the budget. Thanks!

Please consider including the following when asking the SH community what scope we'd recommend for you:

• What is the platform for the scope? AR-15, 12.5/14.5/16
• What cartridge are you shooting? .223/5.56
• What is your intended use for the scope? 2 gun focus, with potential use in backpacking/hunting as distant secondary priority
• What type of conditions will you typically shoot in? Daylight, lowlight, competitive shooting. Night vision usage will be assumed with backup red-dot
• What are the typical distances you intend to shoot? 5-400 yards
• Are there any specific specifications you would like? MRAD requirement only
• What is the price range you can afford? 500-5000

 

[nickw]

When I was shooting 2gun and 3gun matches there were divisions. The division you shot in dictated what optic(s) you could use on rifle and pistol. If you’re limited to one optic (tac-optics) on the rifle, then a low power variable like the vortex 1-6X or 1-10x is where I’d steer you. Excellent quality. At 1x their FOV is amazing and red dot fast. Plenty of magnification for match target distances and excellent reticles. If you can run two optics, in what used to be called open div., I would look at the night force ATACR 4-16x with an offset red dot. You couldn’t do much better than these set ups. Good luck.

 

[ubadefense]

When I was shooting 2gun and 3gun matches there were divisions. The division you shot in dictated what optic(s) you could use on rifle and pistol. If you’re limited to one optic (tac-optics) on the rifle, then a low power variable like the vortex 1-6X or 1-10x is where I’d steer you. Excellent quality. At 1x their FOV is amazing and red dot fast. Plenty of magnification for match target distances and excellent reticles. If you can run two optics, in what used to be called open div., I would look at the night force ATACR 4-16x with an offset red dot. You couldn’t do much better than these set ups. Good luck.

More I've been mulling it over, I am between the Razor Gen 2 HD-E 1-6, Razor Gen 3 1-10, and the PA PLx 1-8...

 

[Travis224]

I used to shoot a good bit of 3 gun, I had the vortex 1-6..it was an amazing alscope and the best for eye box and rarely was 6x not enough. Then NF brought out the nx8 1-8 and I fell in love with the reticle and ffp. Never again will I miss a hold over because I wasn't on the needed power for my hold over to match impact. That is huge, especially when dealing with a timer.

I have both, the vortex 1-10 and now an Atacr 1-8. The vortex is real good all around and cheaper, but I don't regret the Atacr. 8x is plenty, and in my opinion "side by side" the 1-8 Atacr is what the vortex 1-6 was desired for. Bright, super easy eye box, no need for a throw lever, and on low power, the reticle glows as if it was a 1x red dot.

Get the vortex, they are a great company and for 1800ish used, it's a steal. If an Atacr was that price, I'd pick it every time tho.

Wish I had hands on with the others to be more help

 

[Capt_Right]

For competition the Kahles or Swarovski options in either 1-6x or 1-8x are hard to beat. Amazing glass, big eye boxes, and lowest weight. The vortex 1-6x has the biggest eyebox bar none, but glass is meh and even the e model is heavy.

Vortex 1-10x is a great optic, but eyebox is so tight at 10x you will never use that much mag in competition.

I have a Swarovski 1-6x on my 14.5” 3-gun rifle and a Kahles 1-8x on my 18” 3-gun rifle. I also have almost every other LPVO on tactical rifles, and I am still happy with these competition setups.

 

[aslrookie]

I had a 1-8 ATACR for a while. I really enjoyed the optic. I used it for competition, NV, and coyote hunting. My wife asked me why that optic was so expensive and then looked through it and said “holy shit that’s nice.”

I mainly used it on a 11.5” gun but ultimately went back to the EXPS3 for that rifle. There are times I miss that optic, but I will say it’s kinda big for a short gun and really makes a short gun feel dense and slower to handle/manipulate. I personally think the ATACR is at home on a 14.5” gun.

My only gripe about the ATACR is the size. All of my rifles are SBR or LR, so it wasn’t at home on a LR rifle because only 8x and too bulky/big for a short 11.5.” By the time I had my 11.5 with ATACR, PEQ15, modlite, etc the rifle was in double digits weight. You’ll still have the weight with a similarly equipped 14.5” but you have the longer rail for better ergonomics and leverage to still whip the gun around and better overall weight distribution.

To answer your question, if it’s primarily for your 14.5,” cant go wrong with the SOCOM approved ATACR. If it’s mainly on a 12.5” I say save some size/weigh and get a nice 1-6x instead.

 

[RayDBonz]

March 1-10x.
Has a daylight bright red dot in SFP, reticle in FFP. Best of both worlds. Shorter and lighter than most too.

 

[TonyTheTiger]

If you can run two optics, in what used to be called open div., I would look at the night force ATACR 4-16x with an offset red dot. You couldn’t do much better than these set ups.

You would think that, and a lot of people try it, but it's never gained traction.

 

[GreenMushroom]

More I've been mulling it over, I am between the Razor Gen 2 HD-E 1-6, Razor Gen 3 1-10, and the PA PLx 1-8...

I have the 1-6 and the 1-10 and for your uses I'd do the 1-6. Huge eyebox and aimpoint bright dot. Eyebox is good enough on 6x that being sfp isn't really a handicap.

If you want to shoot with your night vision I'd do the 12oclock dot. The reptilia dpp mount is perfection. Not sure why they don't sell an rmr version but it's always coming soon on there website.

 

[ubadefense]

I have the 1-6 and the 1-10 and for your uses I'd do the 1-6. Huge eyebox and aimpoint bright dot. Eyebox is good enough on 6x that being sfp isn't really a handicap.

If you want to shoot with your night vision I'd do the 12oclock dot. The reptilia dpp mount is perfection. Not sure why they don't sell an rmr version but it's always coming soon on there website.

View attachment 7941819

Somehow the appeal of an optic that's more capable of the real world is appealing. That extra magnification might be nice for PID. Does 1-10 sacrifice so much that 1-6 is better?

 

[KineticPerformance]

Somehow the appeal of an optic that's more capable of the real world is appealing. That extra magnification might be nice for PID. Does 1-10 sacrifice so much that 1-6 is better?

The 1-10x definitely has a smaller reticle viewing area than the 1-6x. I really like the reticle in the 1-10x with its translucent center, I just wish they put wind dots in the MRAD reticle like they did the MoA.

It definitely has a better illumination design; I've had 4 of the 1-6x break where the illumination filament separated from the main reticle.

 

[GreenMushroom]

The 1-10 is a nice scope it just don't have the super forgiving eyebox of the 1-6. It's definitely better at range and once you're around 6x I'd say the eyebox is a wash plus being ffp you can dial the magnification back a little to make the reticle thinner. The reticle on the 1-6 is a little on the thick side.

I think you could make either work it's just a matter of if you want to emphasize speed up close in awkward shooting positions or longer range. Either one will be better at range than a magnifier dot combo.

It seems like a small thing but what tips the scales slightly to the 1-6 for me is the dot mount. The low profile turret caps and reptilia mount get it low and you just pop your head up a bit and the dots right there. All the 34mm dot mounts seem to be taller and it's more tip of your chin vrs side of your jaw. Like I mentioned though they don't sell this mount for a rmr and I don't know how long a dpp would survive in 2gun.

 

[JWG]

I had a 1-8 ATACR for a while. I really enjoyed the optic. I used it for competition, NV, and coyote hunting. My wife asked me why that optic was so expensive and then looked through it and said “holy shit that’s nice.”

I mainly used it on a 11.5” gun but ultimately went back to the EXPS3 for that rifle. There are times I miss that optic, but I will say it’s kinda big for a short gun and really makes a short gun feel dense and slower to handle/manipulate. I personally think the ATACR is at home on a 14.5” gun.

My only gripe about the ATACR is the size. All of my rifles are SBR or LR, so it wasn’t at home on a LR rifle because only 8x and too bulky/big for a short 11.5.” By the time I had my 11.5 with ATACR, PEQ15, modlite, etc the rifle was in double digits weight. You’ll still have the weight with a similarly equipped 14.5” but you have the longer rail for better ergonomics and leverage to still whip the gun around and better overall weight distribution.

To answer your question, if it’s primarily for your 14.5,” cant go wrong with the SOCOM approved ATACR. If it’s mainly on a 12.5” I say save some size/weigh and get a nice 1-6x instead.

I keep seeing this...its 22oz and 10". What 1-6 is appreciably lesser?

 

[Burdy]

Hi, I am shopping around for a LPVO for competitive purposes for a 2 gun rifle. Shooting 14.5/12.5 and I want to no longer have issues when spinners, small targets, and distance comes into play. Optimally be able to take on low-light. I am assuming I will get a back-up canted or 12' red dot for close in shooting anyways. Shooting said rifle with NVGs would be neat, but frivolous as I'll probably rely on the dot anyways.

Budget is not really an issue, but happy to settle into a solution if legendary warranty or has capability that really kicks ass for its price-class in case the optic goes on more than one rifle. Happy to spend a 1k, happy to do 4k if it means actual performance on a timer and/dependable quality. I don't need nth term optimization for weight, as I think I can make up for that with lighter parts elsewhere, an optic that would survive the real world would be appreciated.

This is where the open-endedness comes into play. I do not care about FFP/SFP, reticle, max zoom. My main optic so far has been a Eotech 3-4 with a G33 and it has met its match when it comes to longer range shooting. Especially if image quality is needed for the competition, such as a spinner at 200 yards painted in camo. 50/200 zero has worked wonderfully... up to a point. I've also heard a lot about daylight brightness as an argument, but if the etched reticle is good enough I would not care.

I'd be happy for suggestions to go best-in-class, and also exceptional for the budget. Thanks!

Please consider including the following when asking the SH community what scope we'd recommend for you:

• What is the platform for the scope? AR-15, 12.5/14.5/16
• What cartridge are you shooting? .223/5.56
• What is your intended use for the scope? 2 gun focus, with potential use in backpacking/hunting as distant secondary priority
• What type of conditions will you typically shoot in? Daylight, lowlight, competitive shooting. Night vision usage will be assumed with backup red-dot
• What are the typical distances you intend to shoot? 5-400 yards
• Are there any specific specifications you would like? MRAD requirement only
• What is the price range you can afford? 500-5000

$500 to $5000 you say?
Well:
S&B Short Dot
March 1-10
ATACR
Razor Gen III 1-10
Razor Gen 2 1-6
Kahles K16
Kahles K18i
Kahles K18i2
Vudu 1-10
SAI 1-6
PA PLX 1-8

I do have a question, would a G45 5X magnifier help with your EXPS3-4? You mentioned image quality, do you have an issue with the magnifier+HWS combo? With 4 pieces of glass against the outside air, you do have to keep them squeaky clean.