Need help deciding on first rifle (part II)

[Chris3]

Hello again everyone o/

My search continues. A couple of questions below...

1) What are some manufacturer's that have "guaranteed 1-MOA or better" for a semi-automatic in .308 win? I've looked up a ton of manufacturer's and none of them say this... PSA, CMMG, Stag Arms, Diamondback, Daniel Defense, LMT, KAC, Springfield (for victor saint's and their M1A's), S&W, Wilson Combat, Barrett, and the FN SCAR. Are there any out there?

2) What manufacturer's typically make damn accurate semi-auto's in .308? Ya know maybe these guys aren't claiming 1 MOA, but there is some manufacturer out there who just consistently puts out accurate rifles. Who are these guys?

Thanks!!

 

[Jigstick]

Ummmm Seekins and JP?

 

[346ci]

Out of your choices for a close or at moa; DD, LMT, KAC and maybe WC. KAC stuff now is just insanely overpriced, I'd mark them off the list unless you can get a hell of a deal on one. Add the Seekins SP-10 to your list also.

A GAP-10 or JP LPR 07 might get you better results.

The biggest question is can you shoot a large frame gas gun moa or better..

 

[bill_van]

Years back, Armalite used to advertise 1moa or less on their target models. I have a 20" AR10B that actually shoots .5-.75 moa with good ammo.

There are so many variables in making a claim, it probably became too much of a warranty issue where you waste the time and ammo checking rifles that made the mark but customers that couldn't shoot a gas gun to the rifle's capability.

Other than a test target on a precision semi, just purchase a brand name and hope it was a good day when the rifle was built! Good Luck on your quest!

 

[acudaowner]

they are all guns buy one keep it simple . Buy one you like if it's not everything you ever wanted buy another and another and another feed you inner gun hoarder allow it to grow . Join the masses of other people that are just like you till you get older leaving the whole mess I mean collection to you kids whom will just sell everything the ungrateful bastards .

 

[Chris3]

Just build one using a steel Proof barrel and a JP BCG. Or WC components.

Why that barrel and BCG? What about them sets them apart?

 

[redneckbmxer24]

Scratch everything off your list except LMT and KAC, then scratch KAC off because the market has just gone retarded and you’ve landed at your answer.

Not sure if they guarantee MOA or not but I’ve owned close to a dozen MWS’s at this point and every one has been well sub MOA including the chrome lined barrels. Most of them even shot MOA or just over with Federal and Portuguese M80 ball.

If you want a second option I’d add Seekins to your list. They build very reliable and accurate large frames too, but I wouldn’t buy one over an LMT.

 

[n2ishun]

To quote the who.
It's the shooter, not the gun, that makes the groups come undone.

 

[Romeo458]

I agree if you want the best you might as well have it built or build it yourself. There are a number of tricks to squeeze out M aOA from semi autos like those

 

[redneckbmxer24]

Suggesting to someone to roll their own for their first rifle that they want in a platform that has a lot of part compatibility issues is flat out stupid. Then having to troubleshoot any issues that arise when you’re inexperienced… yeah that’s just bad advice.

A quality factory rifle is the right answer.

 

[Jsp556]

Suggesting to someone to roll their own for their first rifle that they want in a platform that has a lot of part compatibility issues is flat out stupid. Then having to troubleshoot any issues that arise when you’re inexperienced… yeah that’s just bad advice.

A quality factory rifle is the right answer.

This is the answer. Who wants another “help my shit doesn’t work” thread?

 

[hafejd30]

Check out Rock River LAR8

 

[redneckbmxer24]

These get mostly solid feedback which isn’t typical for large frames at this price point. I know two people who have bought them recently that really like them and they shoot pretty impressive groups with factory match ammo. I’ve been tempted to buy this one to try it out because it’s a hell of a deal and every “demo” I’ve bought from Euro has been pristine new stuff. Worse case scenario if the barrel is a tomato stake you’re still left with a nice receiver and parts set and you send the upper to Paul at a Craddock and have him make a badass barrel for it in any flavor your want and install it and you’re still $2K or less into it with a hand spun cut rifled barrel.

Sig Sauer SIG716I, 7.62X51 NATO, Like New Demo RIFLE, 16IN, TREAD, BLK, SEMI, TELE STOCK, AL MLOK HG, (1) 20RD MAG R716I-16B-TRD

Sig Sauer SIG716I, 7.62X51 NATO, Like New Demo RIFLE, 16IN, TREAD, BLK, SEMI, TELE STOCK, AL MLOK HG, (1) 20RD MAG R716I-16B-TRD For Sale!

www.eurooptic.com

 

[FuhQ]

Hello again everyone o/

My search continues. A couple of questions below...

1) What are some manufacturer's that have "guaranteed 1-MOA or better" for a semi-automatic in .308 win? I've looked up a ton of manufacturer's and none of them say this... PSA, CMMG, Stag Arms, Diamondback, Daniel Defense, LMT, KAC, Springfield (for victor saint's and their M1A's), S&W, Wilson Combat, Barrett, and the FN SCAR. Are there any out there?

2) What manufacturer's typically make damn accurate semi-auto's in .308? Ya know maybe these guys aren't claiming 1 MOA, but there is some manufacturer out there who just consistently puts out accurate rifles. Who are these guys?

Thanks!!

LWRC REPR... No need to look further.

 

[Chris3]

LWRC REPR... No need to look further.

Maybe I'm looking on the wrong website, but they don't even give specs on the rifle...

 

[ARKEMAXUS]

Agree with everyone who said LMT and LWRC, yeah, maybe Seekins too. It goes without saying but; as much as I love my SCAR 17 it's definitely not an MOA gun, even with match ammo. Maybe some guys out there have a SCAR that shoot MOA or even sub MOA, but for every one of those there are 9 other SCARS that shoot 1.5-2 MOA "all day long".....

 

[FuhQ]

Maybe I'm looking on the wrong website, but they don't even give specs on the rifle...

Standard version...

REPR MKII 7.62 NATO

www.lwrci.com

They also have a version with a Proof Research carbon fiber barrel...

Welcome to lwrci.com - High Performance Firearms

 

[hlee]

Suggesting to someone to roll their own for their first rifle that they want in a platform that has a lot of part compatibility issues is flat out stupid. Then having to troubleshoot any issues that arise when you’re inexperienced… yeah that’s just bad advice.

A quality factory rifle is the right answer.

After he builds his gun he can form 1 a home build suppressor too...

 

[GUNNER10]

Hello again everyone o/

My search continues. A couple of questions below...

1) What are some manufacturer's that have "guaranteed 1-MOA or better" for a semi-automatic in .308 win? I've looked up a ton of manufacturer's and none of them say this... PSA, CMMG, Stag Arms, Diamondback, Daniel Defense, LMT, KAC, Springfield (for victor saint's and their M1A's), S&W, Wilson Combat, Barrett, and the FN SCAR. Are there any out there?

2) What manufacturer's typically make damn accurate semi-auto's in .308? Ya know maybe these guys aren't claiming 1 MOA, but there is some manufacturer out there who just consistently puts out accurate rifles. Who are these guys?

Thanks!!

Whats your budget,

Generally speaking its hard to go wrong with a KAC APC, LMT MWS with Stainless barrel, an FN Mk20, HK MR762, Seekins, JP or Noveske. If you are out for pure accuracy, I would consider reaching out to GA precision for one of there gas guns.

 

[Rambo Sonny]

Buy one first, then you will know what you really want

 

[Naaman]

Hello again everyone o/

My search continues. A couple of questions below...

1) What are some manufacturer's that have "guaranteed 1-MOA or better" for a semi-automatic in .308 win? I've looked up a ton of manufacturer's and none of them say this... PSA, CMMG, Stag Arms, Diamondback, Daniel Defense, LMT, KAC, Springfield (for victor saint's and their M1A's), S&W, Wilson Combat, Barrett, and the FN SCAR. Are there any out there?

2) What manufacturer's typically make damn accurate semi-auto's in .308? Ya know maybe these guys aren't claiming 1 MOA, but there is some manufacturer out there who just consistently puts out accurate rifles. Who are these guys?

Thanks!!

You want advertised accuracy claim?

Rock River advertises 1 MOA out of their .308s.

Rock River Arms

Rock River Arms, Inc. offers a complete line of American made, custom built AR15 style rifles.

www.rockriverarms.com

 

[ut755ln]

Hello again everyone o/

My search continues. A couple of questions below...

1) What are some manufacturer's that have "guaranteed 1-MOA or better" for a semi-automatic in .308 win? I've looked up a ton of manufacturer's and none of them say this... PSA, CMMG, Stag Arms, Diamondback, Daniel Defense, LMT, KAC, Springfield (for victor saint's and their M1A's), S&W, Wilson Combat, Barrett, and the FN SCAR. Are there any out there?

2) What manufacturer's typically make damn accurate semi-auto's in .308? Ya know maybe these guys aren't claiming 1 MOA, but there is some manufacturer out there who just consistently puts out accurate rifles. Who are these guys?

Thanks!!

I am only going to link this because I have seen these guys shoot this rifle at the range a couple of times. The nine hole guys have shot an AR 10 from Lone Star Armory and it has repeatedly shot sub 1 moa.

TX 10 DM Heavy

 

[GUNNER10]

They are accurate and work well together. Everyone talks about how hard it is to build a large frame semi. I haven't found that to be the case. But I did use quality parts that are known to work well together. I'm pretty certain a person can follow a formula of build parts without having to be a veteran AR builder. I used a builders set, Lantac BCG and JP bolt, Proof barrel(comes with the gas tube you need), JP SCS, drop-in trigger, SLR adjustable gas block, PRI M84 gas buster charging handle, Magpul furniture. I spent $3200 but I also chose a $275 trigger and $800 builders kit. Probably could've saved $400 with a more reasonable but equally accurate kit and trigger. No receiver truing, glueing in extensions, shims or any vudoo hand fitting. Literally built with a FixIt Sticks kit, an upper receiver vice block, and a large crescent wrench.View attachment 7899640

But you never can tell what other people's capabilities on the internet. Maybe I look at this with rose colored glasses. Perhaps a training wheels version is to talk to @MSTN about building a rifle for you and talking you through his selection of parts. You could learn something and have a rifle that shoots well. A two'for.

Nothing wrong with assembling a rifle. I've done a couple and they were fine. The only reason that I tend to suggesting factory guns at this point is the market pretty much can support what ever somebody is looking for and assembling a rifle these days doesnt really save one a lot of money. Also, while I have never had a compatibility issue, tolerance stacking is a thing and the more manufactures that are used in a build the more likely an issue might pop up..

 

[ut755ln]

They are accurate and work well together. Everyone talks about how hard it is to build a large frame semi. I haven't found that to be the case. But I did use quality parts that are known to work well together. I'm pretty certain a person can follow a formula of build parts without having to be a veteran AR builder. I used a builders set, Lantac BCG and JP bolt, Proof barrel(comes with the gas tube you need), JP SCS, drop-in trigger, SLR adjustable gas block, PRI M84 gas buster charging handle, Magpul furniture. I spent $3200 but I also chose a $275 trigger and $800 builders kit. Probably could've saved $400 with a more reasonable but equally accurate kit and trigger. No receiver truing, glueing in extensions, shims or any vudoo hand fitting. Literally built with a FixIt Sticks kit, an upper receiver vice block, and a large crescent wrench.View attachment 7899640

But you never can tell what other people's capabilities on the internet. Maybe I look at this with rose colored glasses. Perhaps a training wheels version is to talk to @MSTN about building a rifle for you and talking you through his selection of parts. You could learn something and have a rifle that shoots well. A two'for.

So how does it actually shoot? Is the rail Lantac and does it cover the adjustable gas block?

 

[Vivacious Stallion]

I imagine many manufacturers shy away from making accuracy guarantees on guns known to be difficult to shoot at high levels of precision.

My chrome LMT barrel is probably an moa barrel and my stainless is definitely sub moa with FGMM. My DT MDRX was also surprisingly an moa or better gun, ignoring its other problems.

 

[theLBC]

KAC SR25 ECR/M110 or FNH Scar 20s?

Alright guys, Interesting topic (i think). For DMR work (7.62 inside 850M), which of the two is the best? I am considering purchasing one of the two platforms, however am not tied to either brand. The KAC would be around $6000 all kitted out to resemble an M110 while the Scar 20s would be...

www.snipershide.com

 

[GUNNER10]

I imagine many manufacturers shy away from making accuracy guarantees on guns known to be difficult to shoot at high levels of precision.

My chrome LMT barrel is probably an moa barrel and my stainless is definitely sub moa with FGMM. My DT MDRX was also surprisingly an moa or better gun, ignoring its other problems.
View attachment 7900392

Their CL barrels are definitely serviceable, with that being said, SS barrels are really good, especially the new 6.5cm barrel.

 

[t9regg]

Plus 1 for LMT MWS. I take Reubenski’s point, these are expensive options for a first rifle. But LMT is my second gas gun .308 and the only one of the two to be reliably sub moa. With a ss 1:11.25 16” barrel my rifle is consistently .75-.9 moa when shooting groups at 100 and I have no issue ringing 2/3 ipsc targets at 650 (2-3 moa, to be fair). I use 175gr fgmm and get 2500 fps mv. Plenty for long range shooting. IMO you don’t need an 18” or 20” barrel unless you’re really reaching out there, or mobility is less a concern. For reference, there are several on GB if you want to get a price estimate…around $3500 is probably the number. (Disclosure…none of them are mine…this is not an add )

 

[Chris3]

You want advertised accuracy claim?

Rock River advertises 1 MOA out of their .308s.

Rock River Arms

Rock River Arms, Inc. offers a complete line of American made, custom built AR15 style rifles.

www.rockriverarms.com

I want 1 MOA. I'm not seeing any videos of those shooting 1 MOA.

 

[t9regg]

Great price for an MOA semi-automatic. Two observations, RRA is a reputable company and every 5.56 I’ve owned of theirs punches well above its weight (cost). I haven’t shot their .308, but plenty of folks struggle to manage the increased recoil when moving from fast .22s to a .30 cal platform. Ask them if they ship the test target with the rifle.

 

[hafejd30]

I want 1 MOA. I'm not seeing any videos of those shooting 1 MOA.

My lar 8 shot 1/2-3/4 moa with 168 FGMM. Shot closer to 1 moa with Hornady sst hunting ammo. Mine had the 20” chrome moly barrel. She was heavy though

 

[Naaman]

I want 1 MOA. I'm not seeing any videos of those shooting 1 MOA.

I don't really follow the large frame market much, and not sure how much you trust guntubers, but I've seen a couple get sub-MOA with some of the you mentioned in the OP.

 

[hlee]

My DPMS LR-308 is consistently sub moa with FGMM, Hornady match, and my hand loads. I’m not going to blow smoke up your skirt and say that they all are, or even that it is a reasonable suggestion that most are. But, mine is.

All day.

When I do my part.

 

[pineoak]

said the same on the first thread:

If you don't own an AR15 (5.56)... get one first BEFORE you deal with .308/6.5

Generally the 5.56 flavor are more reliable in more guns/brands. the AR10s can be finicky AND more expensive with fewer accessory options

That said, skip the AR15/DMR/SPR route and get a bolt gun.

Tikka CTR in .223; don't change anything and just shoot the barrel until it wears out.

Why?

You'll likely have more fun and be able to hit further out easier.

 

[t9regg]

Just had my LMT MWS out at the long line last weekend. Quick fire, 5 shot group from 600 at a 10" plate, was 5/5. I agree with pineoak though...a large frame AR for a first precision gun is a steeper curve. There is a lot more pressure to balance, and the benefits of the larger caliber don't start to kick in until 500+. But at 700...this thing owns 5.56s, especially against the wind. And before we freak out ya'll...yes, I know OP asked for sub moa guarantee...and 10" at 600 is 1.67 moa.

 

[pineoak]

the recoil impulse of a semi... just sucks. I've heard its 3 different distinct pushes, but I just remember that it's no fun to shoot.

 

[t9regg]

There is definitely a difference between that and my 6.5 bolt gun...

 

[pineoak]

....remember?

It's been years since I've run a semi in any manner for a long gun

 

[Obi-WanKannoli]

If accuracy and precision are your top goals, I would absolutely suggest looking at 6.5 cm over 308. That said...a high quality barrel wrapped in an Aero M5 will likely net the results you search for.

Factory offerings in 308 with that criteria? I would suggest KAC, LMT, LWRCi, JP, Noveske, LaRue, Seekins, and GAP. There are surely others not coming to mind right now. Something to remember with the more Mil / LE brands is that those weapons are generally meant to cater to acceptable accuracy and exceptional reliability. Sure, plenty will shoot sub MOA all day long, plenty won't, but they will likely all run and run and run.

All that said....a trained monkey could shoot sub MOA on my aero M5 with a toolcraft bcg and Criterion Hybrid in 6.5 cm. Something to consider I suppose.

 

[hlee]

Your input is invaluable

Un-valuable…

 

[Powder_Burns]

in before $20k stripped lowers

 

[Jsp556]

Here, bid up to your price limit.

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/940355485

There’s nothing wrong with a good build but if you’re gonna spend LMT money, might as well get something with a track record and factory support.

 

[thedude824]

Just to clarify... this is your first rifle? Are YOU capable of 1 MOA? Its amazing to me the number of people that want to see an MOA gaurantee when they can't hit a watermelon at 100 yards. Ive shot sub-moa from my 14 year old Colt LE6920 consistently with 77 grain handloads. My SCAR 17 is sub-MOA if I do my part as is my 14.5" build. Buy a good quality rifle and start shooting. You aren't going to be shooting MOA for a couple years at best.

 

[hlee]

You aren't going to be shooting MOA for a couple years at best.

I don’t know about that. From prone, bipod and rear bag, anyone not jacked up on a couple of lines of coke should be able to print an moa group from a capable rifle.

 

[ut755ln]

Hello again everyone o/

My search continues. A couple of questions below...

1) What are some manufacturer's that have "guaranteed 1-MOA or better" for a semi-automatic in .308 win? I've looked up a ton of manufacturer's and none of them say this... PSA, CMMG, Stag Arms, Diamondback, Daniel Defense, LMT, KAC, Springfield (for victor saint's and their M1A's), S&W, Wilson Combat, Barrett, and the FN SCAR. Are there any out there?

2) What manufacturer's typically make damn accurate semi-auto's in .308? Ya know maybe these guys aren't claiming 1 MOA, but there is some manufacturer out there who just consistently puts out accurate rifles. Who are these guys?

Thanks!!

My buddy shoots a Galil Ace Gen 2 in 308 with a 16" barrel and it is absolutely 1 moa or better.

 

[thedude824]

I don’t know about that. From prone, bipod and rear bag, anyone not jacked up on a couple of lines of coke should be able to print an moa group from a capable rifle.

Lol... well... I did have a spinal cord injury. My hands are steady enough to work in surgery though. It took me at least a couple years of regular practice before learning how to properly load a bipod and that the soft point 75 grain crap they gave us in SWAT wasn't Match grade. Ive also never used a rear bag so I dont know how much that helps. I can typically do 0.75 - 0.80 5 rounds groups with 77 grain handloads. Never better. I think setting expectations is a good idea. I cant tell you how many guys pestered me about "what rifle do I get that can shoot at least MOA and 8 months later STILL could barely keep all of their rounds on paper at 100 yards.

 

[msgriff]

Swat guy/ surgeon that can't shoot a moa group.

Checks out

What's odd is I believe ebbiv/Paradox was also a swat guy/surgeon.