Need Help - getting into long range shooting

C

cjlane

Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Sep 28, 2012
303
0
Pittsburgh, PA
#1
I Have some ARs and various other guns, but now I am looking to get into precision/long range bolt action shooting.

I am looking to get into long range/precision shooting. I have been reading through the forums and it seems the best way to start is to get a "beater" gun and lots of ammo and get good trigger time. I have been doing this with a CZ 455 (not a beater but still relatively inexpensive) and I think I am now ready to move up in calibers.

I am looking at a 700 SPS Tactical in 308. It seems it can be had for around $600 and from reviews gives pretty good accuracy out of the box. I am not really looking to do upgrades to the rifle. My end goal is to become proficient with this rifle and learn things I like and things I do not, and then get a high-end rifle from GAP, Spartan or the like.

That being said, I have also read a lot of people saying, " buy once, cry once" or "buy as much rifle as you can afford" and am wondering If I should just pony up on a custom rifle now and not have to worry about the upgrade down the line.

While I am not ready to buy a $4k-5k rifle at this time, I was also looking at a rem 700 5r or the Savage 10 FCP mcmillan or even FN SPR. It seems that with the 700 5r, I could upgrade the rifle as I grow with it and end up with a very fine rifle.

What are your thoughts? Am I missing something?



-Thanks
 
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#5
If you don't intend to reload your own cartridges tuned for your rifle, I wouldn't spend too much. You could spend, as you say $4-$5k, but without ammo worked up specifically for your chamber/barrel you'd be wasting a lot of accuracy.

At 800+ consistency of powder burn, quantity, neck tension, etc. begins to stack up in extra inches of spread.

I for one have forgone the big bolt guns and am enjoying the technical challenge of magazine length 5.56 rounds at 1000. Success is one third, the gun, one third the quality of my hand loading, and one third the operator... guess which third has the most problems to work out?

It takes a rather hot load to keep a 77gr SMK supersonic at that range.

Just another option you may want to look into with your current AR.

Sent from my SGH-M919 using Tapatalk
 
#6
The Remington 700 action is a great place to start. For a minimal amount of money you can have a very fine shooting rifle that you can learn on and upgrade as you wish. You mentioned the Remington 700 5R. This is a great rifle! I purchased one about two years ago in .308 and have been incredibly happy with its performance at longer ranges. At 500 meters, it will reliably shoot under MOA, well under if I do my part.

I also have a SPS Tactical in .223 and though it shoots well, it is not a very "nice" rifle. The action (and entire finish) is nowhere as smooth as the stainless action on the 5R. In addition, the 5R comes with a H.S. Precision stock which comes with a full aluminum bedding block, whereas the SPS has a much less rigid pillar bedded Hogue stock. 5R also has a jeweled bolt, SPS is just flat black. And of course the 5R has the 5R rifling. I don't know if the 5R lives up to its claims, but it is an accurate rifle that cleans up easier than the other 700 rifles I have with factory barrels. Not making any claims to the benefits of the 5R rifling, only my experience with a small sample size of three.

I know some of the cosmetic differences I mentioned have no affect on accuracy, but I noted them as some may feel it is important.

As you can probably tell, I am a big fan of the 5R! Whatever you choose, best of luck and enjoy!
 
#7
If you are wanting to get a gun to shoot for a year or two without modifying it much, the SPS with the Houge stock will leave some to be desired. If you could swing another $250ish for a B&C Medalist stock it would go a long way to improving consistency. Then, practice, practice, practice and not worry as much about uncalled flyers being attributed to stock woes. I think I would do a Savage Hog Hunter ($450ish) in .308 (or .223) and put a Medalist on it and call it good, and get some trigger time. I'm thinking if a guy wanted to shoot a factory stocked (under $700) rifle for quite awhile, you'd be hard pressed to beat a Tikka T3.
 
#8
CJLane, I'm also just getting into long range shooting. I ended up getting the 700 5r 24" .308. based on reviews, feel, fit, and features. It will be awhile before I out grow this rifle, and I'll make changes when they will make a difference in my groups. I just put a Harris BR 6-9 bipod on it. I'm looking at scopes now which is proving to be a harder decision to make :).
 
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#9
LFB, thats kinda what I was thinking. I already have my CZ 455 set up with dip rail and scope with good enough adjustment. But I also just kinda fell into a like new 700 SPS Tactical and already have stock on the way for it. So now I guess Ill keep shooting the 22 and work in range time with the 308.
 
#10
Hah, I have a BSA Tactical Mil-Dot Rifle Scope 30mm Tube 6-24x 44mm with mil dot. Its a low end scope, but so far have had really good results with it to 100yrds. I do have a vortex viper pst 6-24ffp that I am going to throw on the sps. So maybe I'll share the scope when I need to reach out farther with the 22.
 
#11
I posted this in another forum, but had a friend that I got hooked in shooting and was looking at the following:

So, the number of factory sticks are pretty long, but here are the ones that come to mind:
Tikka T3 Sporter ($1500)
FN SPR A1 ($1300)
Remington 5R ($1100)
Savage LRP ($1000)

He doesn't want to mess with whatever he buys, had a hard budget of $2400 including case, bipod, scope, mount, rings and gun. I assumed a fixed power super sniper and all the accessories for about $820, leaving him about $1580 for the gun.

I know of at least 4 people with the 5R, and while half are happy out of the box, the others are disappointed. I have shot 3 of the 4, and was never able to get better than:
.7 MOA @ 100 yards
1.3 @ 150 yards
1.8 @ 200 yards, all with 175 FGMM.

Now, another friend has a Savage LRP in 260, and out of the box, that thing was shooting hunting bullets at sub 1 moa at 100, and with HSM-260-4-N we were getting .62 inch groups at 150 yards, and .9 at 200 yards. The FN SPR is only available in 308 from the factory (from what I have been told), but there are a number of choices.
 
#13
Used AE MkIII and be done with it. After several custom builds, I wish I had listened to those with experience, bit the bullet, and bought the best the first time. Would have saved money and had a superior rifle from the start.
 
#14
First, let me say, welcome to the sport. Now, let me say this from some who was in your EXACT position, this time 3-4 years ago. This sport is addictive, and EXPENSIVE!!!

Let me tell you how my journey went.

A Remington 700 is a great place to start. BUT, there is no way you keep that 700 stock as it comes from the factory, and then just jump to a custom gun. I have a Remington 700 SPS tactical (My first bolt gun). Everyone said you can't go wrong, and if you listen to some of the internet mall ninjas, they will swear they all shoot 1/4 MOA out of box. While mine shot well (About 1 MOA), but it was not consistent. When you get on a forum like this, and see what some of these high end rifles will do, you will immediately be on a quest to get your 700 to shoot like that. I first bought a HS Precision stock, which seemed to improve the rifles performance, but then I still wasn't getting the performance and consistency I wanted. I then decided to skim bed the action, I did it myself so this wasn't much expense. I got tired of loading the internal box magazine. I decided I wanted a detachable magazine. After spending countless hours scouring the internet, I decided that, for what it would cost to add a DBM System, and have it installed by a gunsmith, I can go on an buy a Chassis System. I bought an AI Chassis System. Last thing I bought was a Timney Trigger. All the improvements, not to mention the non accuracy oriented upgrades, Badger Knob, Countless rings and bases before I discovered that cheap and quality don't mix, and numerous scopes. I could have had my current set up, scope included and mounted and been in the game with money left for my retirement, lol. And, my rifle still shot, At Best, 3/4 MOA on a good day. My current setup will shoot half MOA consistently, if not better, and I can do this with confidence. If its shooting bad, there's no question whether its the shooter or the rifle…Cause it aint the rifle

Why am I saying all this. The 700, Savage, Etc, is a great place to start, but I doubt you are able to keep from putting more into them in your quest for accuracy and precision. After all, this is the Dark Side (Come on over Luke). Like I said, I still have my 700, and plan to have it trued, and rebarreled into a 6.5 Creedmor (More Money). If you can scratch up the funds, you could go custom (Consider the lead times), or there are some great high end factory rifles that can be had with relatively short wait times, Accuracy International (Some great deals out there with their new fall fashion line coming out), Sako TRG, DTA (I'll admit, I know little about this platform but I hear good things). If I could do it over, I would have taken out a loan, sold a car, etc, and what little I would have paid in interest, I would have still come out ahead. Now I live by "Buy Once, Cry Once".

LoneWolf has some great info out there if you are looking for somewhere to start.

Budget Precision Build

700 AAC-SD Budget Precision Project - YouTube

AE MKII Review: What ultimately made me save up for my MKIII vs a custom

8541 Tactical - Accuracy International AE MkII Review

PS: You will eventually get into hand loading also. PM me for any info on where to start, so as not to waste your money.
 
#16
That is definitely all some sound advice, and I appreciate you all taking your time to respond. a $3000+ rifle is just not in cards for me right now and I am also not able to reload yet. a used SPS tactical fell into my lap in a pretty favorable trade and so I am going to see if I can stick with that for a while. I got a B&C stock, Badger M5 DBM, and 500 rounds match ammo coming in soon so I should be set for a while as I work on my proficiency.

In the mean time, I am going to start collecting parts as I can so hopefully in a year or so, I can give a good smith a box of parts and have my dream rifle built.
 
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#17
cjlane said:
That is definitely all some sound advice, and I appreciate you all taking your time to respond. a $3000+ rifle is just not in cards for me right now and I am also not able to reload yet. a used SPS tactical fell into my lap in a pretty favorable trade and so I am going to see if I can stick with that for a while. I got a B&C stock, Badger M5 DBM, and 500 rounds match ammo coming in soon so I should be set for a while as I work on my proficiency.

In the mean time, I am going to start collecting parts as I can so hopefully in a year or so, I can give a good smith a box of parts and have my dream rifle built.
Click to expand...

What type of scope are you considering, and what is your scope budget?
 
#21
The sps is a good place to start. As you will find ad nauseum on this website, you can start with this rifle and customize as needed. When the rifle accuracy holds you back, just have the action trued and drop in a custom barrel. I would also add a McRee stock as it is amazing how a quality stock helps with functional accuracy.
 
#22
I am also a newbie to precision / long range shooting. I am a older guy with a collection of antique C & R stuff and started shooting my old rifles 200 yards. After a while I decided I needed something to shoot that was not made in the 1920's so I bought a remington 700 in 7 mm Remington Magnum. It was an older 1972 hunting rifle, but shot great. Then I changed the wood stock for a good B & C stock. Next, i will have some trigger work, and the stock bedded. The rifle shoots great and I am getting better at shooting it all the time. I hope to work my way up to 600 yards in the future.
That's what is great about the remington 700's, leave them alone and shoot them or fix them up. Either way, you have a good rifle.
 
#23
Hey, man. I'm relatively new to LR shooting, too. I have a Leopold Mk4 3.5x10 with M1 turrets on a 700p .308. Even with a the factory HS stock, it's 1/2 moa at 100 yards all day. If I could go back, though, I'd go with one that has the mil/mill and ffp options. To me, it doesn't matter if it's a variable zoom or a fixed 10x. With the mil/mill (or moa/moa) option it'll be much easier to learn and make adjustments when the turrets match the reticle and vice versa. Without my buddy helping me, learning how to use my scope would've been a real challenge.
 
#25
You can also start with the basic 700, but pick up a take off HS Precision stock.

I started with a Remington PSS. Which had the HS stock. Added Harris bipod. And a cheap scope to start shooting.

Put a good scope (Vortex Viper PST 6-24x FFP) with 20 MOA rail.

Then a Timney trigger.

Then a Manners stock with Mini Chassis.

Then a muzzle brake.

So step by step, with each big step in the $1K range, small steps in the $100 or so, I have a pretty nice rifle.

Later, it will get nice barrel, but right now, it shoots pretty well and get hits out to 1200 yards if I do my part.
 
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