Need Help with Caliber Choice, .260?

[Kirk111]

In case you missed my intro, I am a new member, and completely green. I am going to make my initial equipment purchase (everything, rifle, scope, etc.) My use will include hunting whitetail deer here in Texas but primarily work at the range to become a proficient marksman. I'm most interesting in eventually learning to shoot at long ranges, but I understand I need to become a good student first.

After a SIGNIFICANT amount of research on the choice of caliber, my mind is spinning and I could use some help with my paralysis. I think I've narrowed my choice to a 6.5mm caliber or .308. Specifically either .260 or 6.5 creedmoor in 6.5mm. I understand that I have a great amount of practice before I will realize the potential of any of these choices, but I would rather make a good choice first.

Both .260 and 6.5mm creedmoor seem like the perfect round for my interests with its high BC, adequate power for deer, and low recoil which I think should help during learning. However, the rifle choices seem very limited and of course the price and availability of the ammo. I do plan to start reloading, but I have no idea how long it will take me to become proficient.

Am I making sense or am I completely over-thinking things here? Is the .260 or 6.5mm creedmore a good choice for me in your opinion? Are the factory loads that much more expensive than the .308?

Forgive me if this is simplistic or redundant, but I'm a bit stuck.

 

[Kirk111]

I should mention I'm going to be liquidating some of my rather pricey photography toys. So those funds will be lost to the myriad family expenditures or put into nice equipment. Hence my interest in buying equipment above my skill level.

 

[long range newbie]

if you don't reload get the 6.5creedmoor (or if you use factory ammo more) 260 if you reload, and its about $20-$25 for a box of hornady match ammo where I live of 140gr amax. I think if you are going to make it a hunting rifle and you want to be able to shoot a good amount of rounds and keep accuracy but keep the gun very light and rigid then carbon fiber wrapped barrels by proof research is the way to go. (I know they are expensive but you save a lot of weight so it can double as long range rifle and hunting rifle) Also us hiders are very helpful at planning build so if you can give us an idea on your budget with or without scope then we can help a little more. But if you have more money and you want as light as possible than titanium will be expensive but light, and tough. (titanium muzzle break, action, carbon fiber stock and wrapped barrel will make an accurate, light yet expensive gun)

 

[Kirk111]

Okay. well that pricing sounds reasonable. Online I found some less expensive stuff for around $20-25, but some of the match grade ammo was pushing $60. So it was hard for me to tell what a good representative price would be. Good to know.

As far as budget, I say roughly:

$1500 or so for the rifle
$2000 or so for the scope (leaning toward a 3-15x FFP)

Or I guess I could build a custom rifle or buy one and then just get a SWFA SS 10x for the time being, but I was leaning toward a decent rifle with a great scope.

I've also been leaning toward a rifle with a heavy barrel contour so as not to overheat during shooting groups and for better rigidity. Since I'll be mostly at the range and less hunting, I can live with something 8.5 to 10lbs max I think. So I don't need extremely light. My back hurts already thinking about it though.

Am I on the right track you think?

 

[Boogaloo]

Welcome to the Hide brother. I love this place, and I think you will find that for the most part, there are a lot of really good folks here willing to chat and help wherever possible.

I was in your shoes just shy of 2 years ago now, having transitioned from black rifles and handguns as my primary focus and interest, to longer range precision as my sole obsession. I was also overwhelmed by the hot rod calibers and thought I needed to jump right into the cartridges that were winning the long range matches, and at that point (2 years ago) there was a lot of chatter about the .260 Remington, The 6.5 Creedmore was also very high on my interest list since it seemed like all the bad asses were either shooting 260 or 6.5.

What I decided to do was ease myself into it, go with .308 and teach myself how to shoot and how to reload for precision and then ease myself into one of the hot rod cartridges once I was able to hit the small steel @ 1000 yards with regularity at my local range.

That is where I am at now.

I have spent the last 2 years with every conceivable bullet, powder, brass and primer combination, learning how to build consistent cartridges and scoring first shot cold bore hits @ 1000 yards with the 2 .308's that I have. In that time I have had my factory Remington 700 trued and a new barrel hung and enjoyed the improvements with those upgrades. Now I am at the point where I want to get into the competition side of it. Not because I think I am that good, but because I think I am good enough to speak the language with the guys who ARE that good, and whom I think I can learn a lot more from. Those guys are usually out competing, and from what I gather, are some of the neatest human beings on the planet. I want to be a part of that.

What I have learned is that it is fairly easy to build really good .308 ammo. I have also learned that it is challenging to score multiple hits (in a row) on an 18" steel round @ 1000 yards when there is any wind whatsoever. I have also learned that THAT is the fun part of shooting long distance, because it forces you to learn to read wind, learn your scope, learn to build consistent ammo with low ES/SD and it forces you to create ballistics charts that are accurate and representative of the load you are shooting. All of that is the fun part for me, because I get bored after about the 5th hit in a row on a distant target if the conditions are stagnant.

Now, I have a healthy respect for the work that goes into shooting beyond the generally accepted maximum distance of the .308, and doing it consistently, and I think I am ready to step up to the cartridges that truthfully make the shooting part easier by all accounts. I am saving up to have one of my .308's rebarreled to 6CM (Comp Match) for a couple of reasons.
(1) reasonably low recoil.
(2) reasonable barrel life
(3) healthy ballistics for the rounds that guys are using for the 1000 yard (and beyond) ranges.
(4) same bolt face as .308
(5) similar charge weights to .308
(6) component availability

All of those things are plus's and will make the transition to 6CM relatively familiar to me.

I feel (based on your statements) that .308 is a really good place to start, because as a new reloader, there are so many easy ways to get it right, and so few ways to get it wrong, that your enjoyment quotient will be high right off the bat. And because you want to use the rifle on deer, the .308 offers a lot of good bullets that are well proven on deer sized game, so the transition from target to game shooting will be seamless for you, and some of the good target bullets can also double as good hunting bullets, so you can kill like you train, and that is always a good thing. Not saying that you can't do that with .260 or 6.5, but .308 is affordable and potent inside 800 yards, which is outside the range of what I would consider a humane shot on game animals, unless I was starving and famished.

.260 and 6.5CM are generally considered barrel "burners" and you will end up chasing the lands and replacing barrels with both of those cartridges much sooner than you will with a .308, so that is something to consider as well. A good .308 will allow you to learn the basics and stretch it out to 1000 yards when you are ready with no problem. As an example, 208 AMAX @ 2500 FPS in my 24" R700 based rifle is supersonic out to 1350 yards. The 178 AMAX is supersonic from 2650 FPS beyond 1000 yards as well, it just does not do quite as well in the wind. Unfortunately the 208 AMAX is on the suspended list from Hornady, but I am told that they will start that back up in 6 months.

Anyway, again, I say welcome to the Hide. I am sure there will be a few more folks drop by and participate, so don't take my word as gospel, but rather, take it as my experience. Someone who was right where you are now, just a short time ago.

 

[Fred @ Bison Tactical]

.308 doesn't have a lot of recoil - and the ammo is everywhere. Federal Gold Medal Match is $25 / 20. Most of the other 6.5 choices offer less off the shelf availability in ammo than .308.

The benefit of the 6.5's over the .308 in my mind is flatter trajectory. However with known distance, that's not really much of a benefit. If you have a laser rangefinder then even unknown distances the difference is not so great.

In my mind the .308 outweighs the 6.5's for someone beginning - as is a much more common cartridge...

 

[long range newbie]

I agree totally, but either way if you go with 308 or a 6.5 he's going to be good with either. I have a 260 and not a 308, the reason why is where I live wind is CRAZY I mean it will be no wind here, 100yard down blowing 5mph west and east at 15mph at the 1k mark. So 260 is kinda needed for me even though I'm new to long range. I also think 3-4.5k is great amount of barrel life but learning means you shoot more than normal so you can "learn". Burning up a 308 barrel is not easy to do so it would be a great choice since ammo is available, and its easy to find components. long story short I agree with you.

 

[Bruno]

I don't think the Creed or the .260 are barrel burners. But barrel life is very subjective. It depends on how you load and shoot. He can get good barrel life using either 6.5mm. Also, the advantage of the 6.5 calibers is wind drift, not necessarily drop or flatter trajectory. I see the advantage of learning on a .308 too, as I also learned one. Any decision the OP makes will be fine, get what you want and go shoot it.

 

[Redmanss]

Factory match 6.5CM hasn't been the easiest to find lately, especially if it's 140s you're looking for. There's still 120 A-Max and some various GMX/V-Max hunting rounds available, but I've seen 140 A-Max in stock once in the last six months.

However, I just picked up 600 rounds of .260 in 142 SMK and 139 Scenars last week and didn't come close to buying them out.

 

[Graham]

Need Help with Caliber Choice, .260?

Barrel life is not 'very subjective', it can be objectively measured and determined.

For your purposes a .308 will do just fine.

But it will be pretty tough to build a rifle for $1500.

 

[Kirk111]

Thanks for the feedback everyone. Much appreciated. A few notes.. Around here in Texas, especially where the ranges are, there tends to be a lot of wind since there's not much topography to obstruct it. One other reason I was thinking about 6.5mm.

Boogaloo: That makes a lot of sense. I do want to make the same progression. Here a few of the unknowns for me:

1. I don't understand the difference in creating a "good" round reloading for .308 or .260. Is it really that different? How long did it take you before you were able to be proficient at creating good hand loads?

2. I don't understand what actions work with what rounds. Can I assume that since .308 and .260 and creed are short action, I could buy say a Rem 700 5r in .308 to start and then buy a new barrel in 6.5mm later? This is one reason for my paralysis. I was under the assumption I had to purchase a rifle in the exact caliber I'd use. However I've seen a lot of people discussing rebarreling..

3. I doubt I will start with a custom rifle simply because of the price at this point and it being not needed at my skill level. But I'm having a really hard time finding a rifle I want in 6.5mm. Ex: I really like the 5r, but only in .308. I really like the Tikka Sporter, but don't really care for the laminate wood. It's unbelievable to me that Remington developed .260 and they seem to have the least options in that round. I've found rifles from Savage and Tikka that use 6.5, and very few others (Sako, maybe a few others)

I think I can handle the increased price of the caliber and the availability, especially since I plan to reload. However I think if you told me I could buy a Rem 5r an have it rebarreled in 6.5, I'd probably go .308 for now.

 

[Graham]

Need Help with Caliber Choice, .260?

I like your idea of buying a 5R in .308. You can modify it or change it as you go, and it's easy to work on. There's also good factory match ammo and lots of hunting ammo readily available from many manufacturers in .308, a .308 hits hard at under 400 yards, and it's not expensive to run at a course or a match.

 

[Clusterfrack]

Yes the 5R is a good gun out of the box. The magazine system is a dealbreaker for me but you could sell the stock and buy a chassis that uses AI mags.

 

[Roddd]

I think Boogaloo summed it up quite well. The 308 is an excellent starting point, factory match ammo is cheap (relatively speaking) and it's an all around great round to start off with. You'll learn how to read wind, manage recoil, and apply the fundamentals of good marksmanship. Shoot it for a year or two and re barrel to one of the 6.5 rounds. You'll appreciate their ballistics much more coming from a 308. I do recommend you raise your rifle budget a bit more. And if you get tired/find you don't like LR shooting that much, you can always sell your rifle here pretty quickly. Good luck with your choice, it's very exciting.

 

[Boogaloo]

Thanks for the feedback everyone. Much appreciated. A few notes.. Around here in Texas, especially where the ranges are, there tends to be a lot of wind since there's not much topography to obstruct it. One other reason I was thinking about 6.5mm.

Boogaloo: That makes a lot of sense. I do want to make the same progression. Here a few of the unknowns for me:

1. I don't understand the difference in creating a "good" round reloading for .308 or .260. Is it really that different? How long did it take you before you were able to be proficient at creating good hand loads?

It didn't take me too long before I started producing consistent .308 ammo. I was already a proficient reloader when I started shooting .308, so it was more about finding the combination of powder, primers and bullets that worked in my gun(s).

2. I don't understand what actions work with what rounds. Can I assume that since .308 and .260 and creed are short action, I could buy say a Rem 700 5r in .308 to start and then buy a new barrel in 6.5mm later? This is one reason for my paralysis. I was under the assumption I had to purchase a rifle in the exact caliber I'd use. However I've seen a lot of people discussing rebarreling..

Yes it generally is that simple. Particularly when you switch to calibers that use the same bolt face/size. In my case going from .308 to 6mm Competition Match is going to be as simple as swapping barrels, because the 6CM is based off of a .243 Win parent cartridge, and they share the same bolt face/size and both work in short action receivers.

3. I doubt I will start with a custom rifle simply because of the price at this point and it being not needed at my skill level. But I'm having a really hard time finding a rifle I want in 6.5mm. Ex: I really like the 5r, but only in .308. I really like the Tikka Sporter, but don't really care for the laminate wood. It's unbelievable to me that Remington developed .260 and they seem to have the least options in that round. I've found rifles from Savage and Tikka that use 6.5, and very few others (Sako, maybe a few others)

If you are NOT going to jump right into a chassis system of some kind (I really like the Rock Solid stock), or a bedded fiberglass stock, then you may want to consider buying a Savage as your first rifle. You get a lot more for your money with a factory Savage in the way of stock, trigger and accuracy than you do a Remington.

I think I can handle the increased price of the caliber and the availability, especially since I plan to reload. However I think if you told me I could buy a Rem 5r an have it rebarreled in 6.5, I'd probably go .308 for now.

You can buy a Remington 5R and have it rebarreled in 6.5 once you get bored with .308.

The beauty is you can shoot till you are blue in the face with the .308 and not worry about barrel life so much while you get the basics down.

P.S. I don't think you should get all hung up on the 5R thing. I did that for a while too and all it did was drive me crazy trying to find one. I now have rifles with Kreiger, Brux and Bartlein barrels and only the Bartlein is a 5R profile. The Kreiger and Brux (both 4 groove barrels) shoot every bit as good as the Bartlein in 5R does. The Remington 5R is definitely a bad ass rifle though like Graham said. If you can get one, go for it.

 

[hdbiker1]

I agree with most that suggest starting with a .308. If I were to rewind the clock, I would've started with the Rem Mil-Spec. After a lot of shooting, I would have a better idea of which route to go. In my case I went with the 6.5 Lapua just to be that guy (different) and am quite happy. The Mil-Spec would serve as a great foundation. All you'd need to do is rebarrel, true the action and a trigger since you'd already have a decent stock. In the end you'd have approx $1800 into a pretty good rifle. At least that is what I should've done from the beginning. These are just my thoughts. Either way you go, I wish you the best.

 

[Graham]

Need Help with Caliber Choice, .260?

Or, you could buy an AE or AW and change calibers as needed, in your garage, without ever having to buy another base rifle.

Savages shoot very well for the money. But if you buy a Savage you will always have a Savage, even and especially when you try to sell it for anywhere near what you paid for it.

 

[Clusterfrack]

Or, you could buy an AE or AW and change calibers as needed, in your garage, without ever having to buy another base rifle.

Savages shoot very well for the money. But if you buy a Savage you will always have a Savage, even and especially when you try to sell it for anywhere near what you paid for it.

Yup. I love my AIAE .260... But it did cost a little more than a Savage

 

[Kirk111]

I think what got me started down this track of .260 is the Sticky about New to Long Range Shooters under Home Improvement, it mentioned that after graduating from a .22LR, a good next step would be going with a rifle in .308 or .260. Was that a typo? I assumed j-huskey meant .270 as it's a much more common round ( I think). Then when I did research on .260, it seemed to fit perfectly. I think that .308 will be fine for quite a while.

For now the only rifle I have access to is my friend's Browning abolt 300wm! Good lord it kicks. I'm shooting a little over 2 MOA with that beast just about jumping out of my hands. It's the worst of all worlds for me right now and I need to stop shooting it. It has a trigger with a lot of play, so I really have no idea when it's going to fire. As a result I can feel myself bracing. Not good, I know.

Alright, I think you guys have beaten some sense into me. For some reason, 6.5mm is calling me but I think I'm settled on .308. Thanks for all the input everyone. Now to start a new thread on some questions about rifle choice.

 

[Wannashootit]

Savage.
Build it yourself. Easy-peasy, even for a beginner.
Get a "donor" action (used rifle, pawn shop, classifieds, etc.), a match-grade pre-fit barrel, Rifle-Basix trigger, aftermarket stock...
I built mine as a 7-08 to use the 162 AMax bullet (sick BC), but getting ready to change my son's barrel from .308 to .260.

Barrel life (we're talking throat life here) is obviously going to be a bit less all other things being equal because you're sending the exhaust gases down a smaller dia "hole" (6.5 mm vs. .30 cal), but the .260 ain't bad.

Plenty of .308 match barrels for Savage...good luck with whatever route you go.

 

[Kirk111]

What would you estimate barrel life being for .260 on average? It seems I've seen as much as 8-10K for .308

 

[FALex]

I started with .308. I ended with .260. I will never regret starting with that .308. Learning to read the wind is absolutely necessary. While I am no expert, I did gain a substantial amount of knowledge on the subject while shooting LR with my .308.

Truly, any of these newer factory rifles from Rem, Savage, Howa, and Tikka will perform well enough for you to get excellent experience. Unless you have the scratch to put together a decent LR rig, I'd get into a Rem 700 SPS Tactical, get a B&C Medalist, decent brake, and a Timney 510. You can also do the DBM, obviously, but it is not an accuracy "enhancer" like those other upgrades. Also, with Rem, you have access to a plethora of aftermarket parts. They're the Honda Civic of factory rifles! Plus, when you're ready to change, you'll have a great donor action.

I love the accuracy of Savage rifles, I've owned a few of them. They're hammers right out of the box. I just hate how much they change configurations.

 

[Kirk111]

Thanks Falex. I am considering the Rem SPS tac as well as a few Savages. I am confused about whether or not to get a 20" barrel or closer to a 24" barrel. Other than weight, is there any benefit to getting a 20" barrel? It seems like it basically reduces velocity, and I'm guessing affects long range performance. But yet I hear of a lot of guys here cutting their barrel down to 20" or so.

 

[andydrose72]

Get a savage 12lrp in 260 the gun will out shoot you for a long time. Just got mine broke in and load developed and it is a legitmates sub .5 moa gun for just under $1000.

 

[Boogaloo]

If you are going to shoot the heavier bullets (178gr and higher) then the 24" barrel will allow you to get the velocity you need to push them out to 1000 yards with some headroom.

You get about 25 fps per inch of barrel between 20" and 24" according to Quickload. So right at 100 fps added velocity.

Those numbers come from using Reloder-15 behind a 178 AMAX, with the only variable being a 20" barrel vs a 24" barrel.

 

[Kirk111]

I looked at that rifle and some of the other 12 series savages. The only problem is that thing is 11lbs! I was hoping to hunt with it as well. I just can't imagine lugging it. Mostly because of my somewhat bad back. The 10 fcpk looks like a good alternative and a bit less weight. I seem to remember there's a 12vss or something that is a bit lighter as well.

 

[andydrose72]

True about that weight. And I don't think you can really go wrong with any of the savages at this time. The 260 is an amazing round though. For hunting with the right 140 grainers your gonna kill anything a 308 will.

 

[hewlett260]

While I do love the 260, I think you would be better served getting a 308 for many reasons. As great as the 260 is, shooting 308 will help you with learning the wind a little better(or maybe not), once you can master the wind with a 308 you will appreciate other cartridges much more for what they are capable of. Price of components for all are about even, but factory ammo prices are getting ridiculous these days. 308 is about the perfect round to learn with because of component and factory ammo choices. playing with factory and reloads you will be able to learn your gun inside and out and gain a great understanding of what different component combinations can do for you. If I was you or in your shoes with the same budget, I would go with a Rem 700 Police model(around $850-$950 depending on where you go), Seekins base and rings, and a Nightforce F1 mil/mil scope. Anything left after that would go straight into reloading equipment, components and ammo. Starting off, you have a proven 1MOA rifle that will generally perform better when the shooter does his part and the ammo used is good. Bed the gun into the HS stock and do the trigger down the line and it will tighten to about .5-.75MOA. The 26" barrel will get most bullets out to 1000m no problem, and it's really not that heavy. If you decide you eventually want a detachable mag system there are a ton of options, eventually want to switch calibers to 260, send it to a good smith, the initial platform while excellent, is more like a plain canvas ready for paint. The 5R is a good choice also but the features and performance don't really justify the increased price over the Police. Savage are good also, just not for me. Also look at the Howa 308 Varmint barreled actions and drop it into a B&C stock. All these choices are within your budget and leave you a little extra for a better optic(Nightforce F1) and reloading equipment. Also read as much as you can which I assume you probably already do. I hope this helped a little, and welcome to the hide, good luck with your choice and we look forward to seeing pictures and reading a range report.

 

[Kirk111]

Thanks Andy and Hewlett. I think one thing that's key for me is that it will take a long time before I would even notice the benefits of the .260's ballistics. I'm thinking .308 more and more.

However, let me play devils advocate for a second. I live in an area (Texas) with very large open spaces. Wind is a big issues as I've mentioned. In fact, it blew over a 60' sycamore on my street yesterday. Knowing there is a handicap already existing like that, wouldn't it behoove me to obtain a tool that's better for the job, one with better ballistics, since I'm going to be fighting the wind right from the start? It seems like the .308 (taking price out of the equation) is like a 1.5 to 2" MOA rifle, plenty good in the beginning, but causing unnecessary frustrations when there's a better tool out there.

Again, I'm leaning toward .308. But considering I'm going to reload and I'll leave money for increased ammo costs, it's tempting.

 

[FALex]

Thanks Andy and Hewlett. I think one thing that's key for me is that it will take a long time before I would even notice the benefits of the .260's ballistics. I'm thinking .308 more and more.

However, let me play devils advocate for a second. I live in an area (Texas) with very large open spaces. Wind is a big issues as I've mentioned. In fact, it blew over a 60' sycamore on my street yesterday. Knowing there is a handicap already existing like that, wouldn't it behoove me to obtain a tool that's better for the job, one with better ballistics, since I'm going to be fighting the wind right from the start? It seems like the .308 (taking price out of the equation) is like a 1.5 to 2" MOA rifle, plenty good in the beginning, but causing unnecessary frustrations when there's a better tool out there.

Again, I'm leaning toward .308. But considering I'm going to reload and I'll leave money for increased ammo costs, it's tempting.

I believe you're thinking too much into it. Wind is wind, brother. If it's blowing 5, 10, 15, 20...either way, it's blowing. Obtaining quality dope for your rifle/load will mitigate whatever mph the wind is blowing. In fact, the more it is blowing, the more education you're going to get. There have been days when I have had to cancel my shooting because there was not much wind (not a great learning environment).

In other words, don't shy away from it. Embrace it. Learn from it. When you're getting hits in those crazy gusts, you'll get a good amount of confidence. When you're ready to screw that .260 on, you'll be absolutely killing it.

 

[Wannashootit]

It seems like the .308 (taking price out of the equation) is like a 1.5 to 2" MOA rifle, plenty good in the beginning, but causing unnecessary frustrations when there's a better tool out there.

Again, I'm leaning toward .308. But considering I'm going to reload and I'll leave money for increased ammo costs, it's tempting.

I think you're confused...
The accuracy of any rifle-you mentioned 1.5-2 minutes of angle- is completely independent of chambering. You can have a two minute .260, or a half-minute .308, it depends on the quality of the build/barrel...

Far as wind drift, the .260 (6.5mm) bullets will beat the .308 all day long...

If you're going to handload, I would strongly consider the .260.

 

[texag0842]

If it was me I would shop for a FN SPR .308

Will get you a very nice action, nice Mcmillian stock, and a decent mag system for approx 1500$

A Bushnell 3.5-21 from GAP will set you back approx another 1400$



3k to get you going with some money to spare.

 

[Graham]

Need Help with Caliber Choice, .260?

If it was me I would shop for a FN SPR .308

Will get you a very nice action, nice Mcmillian stock, and a decent mag system for approx 1500$

A Bushnell 3.5-21 from GAP will set you back approx another 1400$



3k to get you going with some money to spare.

Not a bad idea at all. Except that the cheek piece on those factory McMillan sucks. Otherwise, the FN is an excellent rifle and the non zero stop DMR is a good value. If I was doing a budget build I would look for a 20" PBR and drop it into a Manners from their ready-to-ship page on the website, but that's just me.

 

[Kirk111]

Wannashootit: I understand that a less accurate rifle (1.5 - 2 MOA) is independent of the caliber. I was simply making an analogy of a limited rifle or a more limited caliber frustrating a beginner because of their limitations. I know that .308 can be just as accurate. I'm just gathering info to make the best decision. I'm sure I was unclear.

texag / graham: I looked at the FN SPR line. My only problem is the weight. At 11.5 lbs I don't think I'd be able to manage that hunting. I'm going to have to start a new thread re: rifle choice, but I was hoping to get one rifle I could use for hunting and range work. I have a feeling in the future it will be 2 different rifles, but the idea of using one rifle, getting very used to the fit, feel and performance while I'm training speaks to me. I think that's the problem... finding one rifle to do it all. Probably not smart, I know. But the Tikka sporter (not crazy about the look) is built for just that and I was hoping I could get a Rem sps tac or 5r with a diff stock that would come in under 10lbs.

 

[Barney88PDC]

Go .260 over .308

 

[Kirk111]

What .260 rifles would you recommend Barney? I've seen the Tikkas, a few Savages.. Under 10lbs. Under $1500.

 

[Kirk111]

Texag / Graham: You both mentioned the Bushnell scope. I've been doing some research on scopes as well (Yet another post to come). Is that First Focal Plane? I was thinking either:

1. SWFA 10x42 (especially if I got a more expensive rifle). Problem is that 10x would be tough for hunting
2. Nightforce 3.5-15x50 F1 - It's a lot of scope for me, but I like the buy once, cry once approach and it seems you can't go wrong with this
3. Leupold M4 3-15 (or whatever that is) FFP - I think I'm leaning toward NF
4. Nightforce 5.5-20 (or so) SFP - I really want to learn to mil targets at all magnifications and it seems most prefer FFP once they've had one so I'm not as interested in this one.

Now I don't know about the build quality of the SWFA and honestly for $300 wouldn't care that much, but the others seem rock solid in ruggedness and ability to keep zero well. Would you put the Bushnell in the same league? What am I giving up by going with Bushnell.

Sorry I know we're all over the place with equipment topics, but there's so many interrelated considerations when starting fresh

 

[Barney88PDC]

I'm sure Tikka or Savage are both going to preform about the same. I was more strictly talking caliber. I bought a 700P in 308 and shot that for probably about 1000 rounds. Built a short 308 off that action and put about 2300 rounds on it. Had a custom 260 built on a Surgeon 591 and it was like cheating.

The 260 shoots faster, flatter and further than a 308 with less wind drift and recoil. It dry humps a 308 into submission and still has more than enough energy for ethical kills on medium and even large game. Go check out the critters PSinclair has killed with his. Ammo from SouthWest or Copper Creek is available but really you need to get a press and roll your own. It really is not that hard.

 

[Barney88PDC]

PS I have since sold the .308

 

[Kirk111]

So Barney- you'd say .260 over 6.5 creed?

I do want to start reloading. I'll have to find someone near me to help with the learning.

Ok, hypothetical to get a sense of real world costs... I go with a .260 rifle. In the very beginning I won't need match ammo. What would you recommend for sufficient factory ammo in the beginning? Can you buy it online in a larger quantity or do you have to buy local? Let's say I shoot about 3 boxes each weekend. What would you estimate the cost of that? I ask because it seems to vary dramatically online and the largest store we have in town only had 6.5 creed, not .260 that I could see. I know this is pretty basic, but not having a background in this it's hard to quantify the real costs. How hard have you found it to find on a week to week basis or did you just reload from the start?

With .308, it's of course more simple. Everyone has it and I gather you can find cheap and match ammo pretty easily.

 

[RugerSlinger]

I love the 6.5 caliber projectile and I believe the best bet for you would be to go with the 6.5 Creedmoor or 260. I own 2 260s and love them both, I reload and it is cheaper to reload than a 308. I think you would be best served getting a savage in 6.5 Creedmoor or 260 and buying 3-500rds of Factory ammo to get you started, once you start getting low on ammo you can use the brass to start reloading and tightening up your groups. I have found that 260 match ammo is a little more expensive but SW seems to have plenty @ $32/20.

I know the savage is a little heavier than you wanted but I think it is the best option to get started with. Heres what I would do;
Savage 12 LRP $920 to your dealer
Vortex 6-24 mil/mil FFP $950
EGW HD 20 moa base $65
Seekins Rings $120
500rds Match ammo $650
Bipod $100
Rear bag $40
Rifle case or bag, I use the midway drag bag $75
Cleaning Rod, Bore Guide and cleaning supplies $120
Range Time $PRICELESS

So for about $3000 you can be out with an accurate gun and learning the basics that will serve you well for a while. Then you can start reloading and have a whole new learning curve of reloading, but the end results are so worth it. Cheaper more accurate ammo!

 

[Barney88PDC]

260 vs 6.5CM is Ford vs Chevy either works great. If you don't reload then go CM as historically it has been reasonably priced and could be had on the net. Neither caliber will be as readily available as 308 but worth it.

Here is something i put together that should get you going reloading.

http://www.snipershide.com/shooting...ng-precision-rifle-pic-heavy.html#post2682829

 

[wakajawaka]

I'm partial to all things 6.5 and about a year ago, got a Savage LRP in .260.

The rifle is very nice but I'd call it way to heavy for hunting.

Unfortunately, many Savages come with their Accu Stock. It's crap.

I'd been shooting and collecting Swedish Mausers for a quite awhile so choice of caliber for me was a no brainer. If I wasn't reloading, I might have gotten a .308...

 

[Boogaloo]

Me personally, I think you are way over thinking this too.

If your back is in that bad a shape that a few extra pounds on a rifle is causing you to waffle, how the hell are you going to hump a deer outta the back woods once you drop one? Or are you going to rely on quads and buddies to help you out there? What about hoisting the deer up into the truck or onto the back of the quad? Hoisting it up onto the skinning rack?

I say forget about an extra 2 pounds on whatever rifle you are agonizing over, and pick the caliber you want that is going to allow you to accomplish your goals of learning to shoot long distance, learning to develop loads, learn your scope, creating accurate and reliable ballistics charts and get out shooting. Learn how to shoot off sticks, prone, the bench, or using a tree as a compromised rest. All of that stuff takes hundreds of rounds and many trips to the range to become proficient at. That equates to time... How much of that (time) do you anticipate devoting to the cause in the next year to 18 months?

I say you have at least a year of shooting every other weekend, reloading the weekend between range trips, to get to where you can make first shot cold bore hits on anything smaller than 10" and over 500-600 yards (if you are a new rifle shooter and not a prodigy). Then, you have to think about the hair you will loose while you agonize over all of the other details of the long range game, which means more practice and twice as much shooting, load development etc.

By that time, perhaps your back will be rehabilitated, and you can then put some energy into lightening up your system for the stalking that you may find yourself doing. If all you are going to do is ride a quad out to a tree stand somewhere and sit there and wait for a deer to come to you, then what difference does 2 pounds make on a hunting rifle?.

See where i am going with this?

You have a lot of good advice flowing here, but if you are anything like me, you have just been on a merry go round with this thread, and you are right back where you started with the first post,because there is NO DEFINITIVE ANSWER HERE. 6 to one half dozen the other is what I see. Half the people say go with the 308 and the other half split between 6.5 and 260

I say you back out of this thread for a while, and start a spread sheet with a tally on what it will cost to purchase all of the reloading equipment, tools, components etc. and then add to that the cost of the rifle you settle on, and then compare that with your budget in hand at this point, and then decide if you are going to jump right in to reloading immediately. If the answer to that question is no, then pick the caliber you want based on the readily available ammo that will allow you to shoot as much as you need, to at least accomplish a couple of your goals.

Anything short of that is staying on the merry go round, but never grabbing the brass ring.... What fun is that?

 

[Kirk111]

Wow. I just did a search on ammoseek regarding the cost and availability of 308 vs 260 vs 6.5mm creed.

.260 $1.5 - $2.5 per round
6.5mm creed $1.20- $2.25 per round
308 $0.18 - $4.50 or so

Damn, there's an eye opener. Now I realize we're talking apples to oranges because the only one listed for .260 and creed are probably really good to match grade. But just from a newbie's point of view, I'll be working on fundamentals for quite awhile and would probably be fine with DAG or just a bit better. Also, I'm sure it's going to take me 2-3 months at least to become proficient at reloading. That's a significant difference in price.

 

[Kirk111]

Boogaloo: I hear ya and you're right. But I am still leaning way toward .308, but if prices were even close to similar it would be tough. Choosing the right caliber seems to dictate a lot of the other decisions.

I think it's worthwhile to discuss though. Obviously theres a good reason to use the 6.5mm rounds if half of those posting are for it. And if I didn't ask the questions, I wouldn't know.

I don't think anyone really wants to hunt with a 12-13lb gun. The Tikka Sporter was designed to be a dual use gun at 9 - 9.5 lbs and a lot of people still think that's too heavy. I can't tell you how many folks I've read mention on here that a 10-12 lb rifle is just too heavy for hunting. I don't think I'm alone on this one. I will have help hauling the deer and will usually have access to a 4 wheeler on the lease.

Where I stand right now is sticking with .308 as I mentioned, but discussing this has helped me a lot and I think the info covered here will help a few others. And I'm about a month away from making the purchase. Otherwise, I'm just continuing to discuss as others post.

 

[Kirk111]

Thanks everyone for your feedback and your patience. This has been a lot of help.

 

[texag0842]

Thanks everyone for your feedback and your patience. This has been a lot of help.

Kirk like I said I would do a FN SPR in .308. I personally prefer it over a Remington but if you want a Rem700 you can build up a AAC or SPS you just will have to get a Mcmillan/AI/ect and a DBM system so your looking at more money.

I stated Bushnell because I think its the best bang for the buck...You could go cheaper say Vortex PST or more expensive say F1/Steiner 5-25/Kahles 6-24 but the Bushnell will get the job done.

I shoot a heavy rifle AIAE in 6.5CM with a S&B, but I started with a SFP NF 5.5-22 MLR on a FN SPR and it shot just as well.

I hunt with a Sako Tecomate 270WSM because I don't want to lug even a 9 pound rifle around hunting so look into a Tikka T3 Lite, they're 6 lbs and have a mag system...much like my Sako but cheaper.

FYI I prefer my tactical rifle to have a little weight, soaks up a good amount of recoil and none of these tactical rifles will be light once set up.

So back to what I was saying
FN SPR - 1400
Bushnell- 1400
Tikka T3 Lite - 491$ shipped to your door (6lbs)

 

[Kirk111]

Thanks texag. The FN looks nice.

 

[long range newbie]

I started with a Remington sporter 308 shot 60 rnds through it for gigs (I just wanted the action) I got it rebarreld in 260 rem, just got into long range, I haven't been able to shoot 600-1k yet. I think your going to learn either way, but budget is what you need to look at.