Need opinions on my 700 AAC rifle/groups, HELP?

[Eagle1*]

Alright, I am posting this thread because I have a delima and I am trying to figure this out and would greatly appreciate any of your rifle shooters opinion on what you think that I should do.
I bought a bone stock Remmy 700 AAC-SD rifle and obviously hated the stock. So I kicked around what stock I should order, MCM A5 or AICS 2.0 and after a long decision making process, I went with the A5 because I just like it better and the fact that I have never been behind a AICS 2.0, I was told to try one before I buy it so I had a A5 in the past so I went with the A5. I bought the A5 from John (jwprecision) here on the Forums and it fit my gun perfectly, no issues. The only issue was that it was not bedded of course. Here is a pic of it after I switched out the Hogue for the new A5,

Now I asked around and got mixed responses wether I should bed the barreled action to the A5 stock or not and I even called McM themselves and they told me that it would be fine without the bedding. Well, I took the rifle out for the first 59 rounds of fire and this is what I got. I know these are not all 5 shot groups and I am sorry for posting but I need some of your opinions so this is why I am posting.

I spoke to a few of the hide rifle builders and they told me that I needed a baseline first before I could know if my rifle would actually shoot good before putting the A5 stock on and this would help to know if any truing work would need to be done as well. This would then tell me if my barreled action was good from the factory or it would need trued and such but trying this in an unbedded stock is going to be hard. So today I switched back to the Hogue rubber stock and balanced it on some sand bags in the middle of the rifle and these are the groups that I got today, much better I think. I have shot only Federal 168 GMM in the gun and it all has been the same lot number too. I am using a Leupy 4.5-14x50 mildot mark4 scope in badger rings/base.

I guess my questions are,

1)Is this barreled action shoot good enough from the factory with factory ammo if I do my part?
2)If so, should I go ahead and have the barreled action bedded into my A5 and do you guys think I would get the same groupings with the bedded A5 as the hogue stocked groups got?
3)Or go with the AICS 2.0 and that would save me alot of money since it already has the det mag bottom metal and V bedding block? It is basically a plug and play setup!

It is going to cost me about $200.00 more to get the A5 how I want it compared to the AICS 2.0 and I am torn at the moment. YOUR Thoughts guys?????

 

[Eagle1*]

Re: Need opinions on my 700 AAC rifle/groups, HELP?

Also, just some info reference the targets above, the solid orange lines are 1" squares and the lighter lines in between are 1/2" squares. On the bottom two targets I shot 4 groups of 5 and 1 group of 4. My best two groups you can see are 5 shot groups...

 

[psmith]

Re: Need opinions on my 700 AAC rifle/groups, HELP?

I would definitely bed the A5 if you are going to keep it. It looks like you shoot a little better with the original stock. I think the gun is shooting fine with no action work. You can probably gain more from reloading to the gun than action truing etc at this point.

I'm a big A5 fan so they work for me but many like the AICS. If you ever want to get rid of either, they seem to go pretty quickly around here. I don't think either is a bad choice.

 

[VKC]

Re: Need opinions on my 700 AAC rifle/groups, HELP?

If the McM A5 feels comfortable to you, I would keep it and bed the action.

AICS has a different feel with thumbhole, not better or worse, just different depending on your preference...so I would definitely not just jump to buying another stock until you test it out first.

 

[slayer 2c]

Re: Need opinions on my 700 AAC rifle/groups, HELP?

If I can weigh in with my limited experience, and not have you take this as an attack in anyway. It looks like the group sizes maybe the result of you and a new rifle.

Look at the first pic top left target top left group, to me that group looks about 1".

Same target top center group just over 1" maybe 1.25"?

Bottom target, center group same as above 1.25?

Bottom left group just over 1.25"

Those are really good groups and I for one would be really happy to shoot those with my first 59 rounds. I don't know how much you shoot, or what your level of skill, so don't take this the wrong way. Out of 12 groups your worst looks about 2" if you don't count the one with the way out flier (top target, top right). Again I'm gonna call not bad for the first 59 rounds from a factory action and barrel.

Now the second group of targets most of those groups have shrunk, but are they all that much smaller than the top pic bottom target? Those groups are all between 1-1.25", from a factory action, a factory barrel, and good, but factory ammo.

So I guess I'd have to believe yes this action seems to be good if you do your part.

As for the stock, I don't think the groups are the result of the stock, I'd bet it was the newness of the rifle and the shooter himself. If you are really thinking about getting an AICS 2.0 to save money why not get a Mcree Precision and save yourself even more with all the same features/benefits. You can get a folder with the AI mags for $710! No bedding required, mag, and folder.

Just some thoughts and observations,
J

 

[Eagle1*]

Re: Need opinions on my 700 AAC rifle/groups, HELP?

thanks for the info guys, I think I am going to get my A5 bedded to my action and hopefully I can get somewhere with the next few hundred rounds after getting it back.

 

[callen3615]

Re: Need opinions on my 700 AAC rifle/groups, HELP?

I looks alot better than my sps with a mcmillan. I had an a4 on my sps v. Unbedded shot over 1.5moa, pretty disappointing. I didnt have the money or will to find a gunsmith so I traded it for an aics 1.5 that was bedded for a 700 action. My rifle shot amazing in the aics! Under .5 moa consistantly, some groups were 1 ragged hole .2-.3moa!. Sadly I couldnt take lugging the aics around, it it big and heavy. I didnt mind the thumbhole but the large channel and excessive weight bothered me. I traded it for an adjustable HS and it shoots sub moa groups, and saved me 100 bucks.


I dont know, stocks are a personal preference. I loved the way the mcmillan felt but I couldnt justify spending more money on a stock I already had 700 dollars in, I cant understand why they dont come with full length bedding blocks, if it did I would have kept it. To each his own...

Im sure your rifle will shoot even better bedded. I just cant justify the extra work required. Hell my rifle shot twice as good BONE stock, added a 700 dollar stock and groups doubled! And im supposed to spend more money on gunsmithing to make the rifle shoot better. Sorry, I guess im not dedicated enough...or rich enough.

 

[M700Love]

Re: Need opinions on my 700 AAC rifle/groups, HELP?

Have you givin thought to trying some different ammo? FGGM 168's did the worst out of my AAC-SD

FGGM 168's

Fiocchi 175's

Fiocchi 180's

Cor-Bon 190's Lapua brass

I don't know how much it helped since I never fired it in the hogue stock but I do have it in a B&C A5.

 

[Eagle1*]

Re: Need opinions on my 700 AAC rifle/groups, HELP?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: M700Love</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Have you givin thought to trying some different ammo? FGGM 168's did the worst out of my AAC-SD

FGGM 168's

Fiocchi 175's

Fiocchi 180's

Cor-Bon 190's Lapua brass

I don't know how much it helped since I never fired it in the hogue stock but I do have it in a B&C A5.

</div></div>

So did you bed that B&C stock or are those groups from the standard aluminum bedding block that comes in the stock from the factory?? Those sure are sweet groups if that is a bone stock rifle and bone stock B&C stock!

 

[M700Love]

Re: Need opinions on my 700 AAC rifle/groups, HELP?

Bone stock just bolted it in, didn't even have a torque wrench just went by feel.

 

[Kalman]

Re: Need opinions on my 700 AAC rifle/groups, HELP?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: M700Love</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Have you givin thought to trying some different ammo? FGGM 168's did the worst out of my AAC-SD
Cor-Bon 190's Lapua brass

I don't know how much it helped since I never fired it in the hogue stock but I do have it in a B&C A5.</div></div>
Is that repeatable or just the best group? If so, what's the average group size?

 

[M700Love]

Re: Need opinions on my 700 AAC rifle/groups, HELP?

That is the best group, for 3 shot groups the all stayed 1/2" or less exept the 168's. Only have 76 rounds down range to date.

 

[Kalman]

Re: Need opinions on my 700 AAC rifle/groups, HELP?

Gotcha.

I'm a big believer that anything can be done once no matter how bad the ammo is. I generally want 4x 5 round groups to get a good idea how good something is IMHO. I was going to poke around with some new ammo, but I think I'm going to just buy another 200 round of FGMM 168s or 175s and then invest in some reloading equipment.

 

[Calvinc4s]

Re: Need opinions on my 700 AAC rifle/groups, HELP?

Nice looking rifle. I would get the A5 bedded and work from there.

 

[wdhigh]

Re: Need opinions on my 700 AAC rifle/groups, HELP?

I am intrigued by this thread.

Do the A-5's need bedding? I want a similar build to original poster and have the same concerns. Should I just save for aics and get the mag and not have to have it bedded.

 

[Eagle1*]

Re: Need opinions on my 700 AAC rifle/groups, HELP?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: wdhigh</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I am intrigued by this thread.

Do the A-5's need bedding? I want a similar build to original poster and have the same concerns. Should I just save for aics and get the mag and not have to have it bedded.

</div></div>

yes, a5's need bedding if you want the rifle to shoot consistently, at least i was told this and by my groupings in the stated stocks, i need to bed mine. yes, it costs more to bed/buy/bottom metal an a5, but it is a personal preference.

 

[wdhigh]

Re: Need opinions on my 700 AAC rifle/groups, HELP?

I can't believe it would shoot better with the hogue.

I ditched mine quickly on my aac-sd. I quickly bought a B&C medalist because I wanted to hunt with it quickly. Now I have decided I want something else to try and the a-5 was my first choice and aics second. Looks like the aics might be cheaper than an A-5 bedded and adding DBM.

Please post your results when done.

 

[Notso]

Re: Need opinions on my 700 AAC rifle/groups, HELP?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: wdhigh</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I can't believe it would shoot better with the hogue.

I ditched mine quickly on my aac-sd. I quickly bought a B&C medalist because I wanted to hunt with it quickly. Now I have decided I want something else to try and the a-5 was my first choice and aics second. Looks like the aics might be cheaper than an A-5 bedded and adding DBM.

Please post your results when done. </div></div>

Another option, if you want to avoid bedding and want a DBM, would be to go for the Manners T4A with the mini-chassis system. I LOVE mine. It's about the same price as the AICS and you get a 5- round mag thrown in.

I agree with a previous poster that I would invest in better match ammo or better yet reloading to find a tuned load before bedding.

 

[Eagle1*]

Re: Need opinions on my 700 AAC rifle/groups, HELP?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: wdhigh</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I can't believe it would shoot better with the hogue.

I ditched mine quickly on my aac-sd. I quickly bought a B&C medalist because I wanted to hunt with it quickly. Now I have decided I want something else to try and the a-5 was my first choice and aics second. Looks like the aics might be cheaper than an A-5 bedded and adding DBM.

Please post your results when done. </div></div>

my thoughts exactly, I even called McM and talked to them about it and they said it would shoot fine without bedding.. Hell, I'm thinking of selling it and buying a GAP...

 

[Chuck Finley]

Re: Need opinions on my 700 AAC rifle/groups, HELP?

I'm glad to see it shoots that well, I'm about to sell my LTR in .223 for a AAC-SD 700.

 

[vtb]

Re: Need opinions on my 700 AAC rifle/groups, HELP?

Basically it's the same picture we saw on 20" rem 700 SPS Tac 1:12 twist
1. Hogue groups - inside 0.6-0.9MOA FGM 175gr, 0.5MOA with reloads
2. Changed to AI 2.0 chassis - 0.5MOA with FGM 175gr, 0.3-0.4MOA with reloads
3. Changed to Mcmillan A4 - 1MOA with FGM 175gr - and after we've bedded the action best result was 0.75MOA with reloads.

So basically, if i wanted to keep the A5 stock i will do the bedding.

Hope this helps

 

[Beauhooligan]

Re: Need opinions on my 700 AAC rifle/groups, HELP?

I'm a newcomer, so please pardon my manners. If this were my rifle, before changing the stock or going to gunsmithing, I'd put as much ammo down range with the rifle as it is. Nothing beats improving skills and finding out the ways of a good rifle than putting bullets down range. Nothing, that is, this side of reloading. Get into reloading and you will learn the joy of finding your own "pet load" for what by now will be your most fired friend. You might find that changing the stock will not be as helpful in the long run than changing bullet weight and manufacturer, or powder by maker, type and charge weight. It can be a laborious process to bring to fruition, but you are sure to find your inner marksman along the way. More importantly, you will learn the process, so the next rifle will be easier. I've doing this for 42 years now, beginning with an Argentine Mauser when I was 16, and it's the best way I know to get the most from your rifle. Nice rifle, btw. From the groups, it wants to be a shooter. I'd shoot the heck out of it any chance I'd get, and tinker with loads in the time between; which is pretty much what I do with my rifles.

 

[Eagle1*]

Re: Need opinions on my 700 AAC rifle/groups, HELP?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Notso</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

I agree with a previous poster that I would invest in better match ammo or better yet reloading to find a tuned load before bedding. </div></div>

I have been using FGGM, I though that was match ammo, am I missing something here???

 

[Pusher591]

Re: Need opinions on my 700 AAC rifle/groups, HELP?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Eagle1*</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Notso</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

I agree with a previous poster that I would invest in better match ammo or better yet reloading to find a tuned load before bedding. </div></div>

I have been using FGGM, I though that was match ammo, am I missing something here???</div></div>

I think he probably meant a heavier grain ammo since the AAC rifle uses a 1-10 twist.

That is probably why that one fellas groups inpmroved so much, as you could see he shot way better with the heavies.

FGMM is great stuff, and has made a name for itself as being some of the most accurate ammunition out there. I'm sure there is better but for the price and quality you get with FGMM you can't beat it. Remember, every rifle is diffrent and it will be up to the owner to check out what his rifle prefers.

I have seen two brand new GAP Crusaders, side by side.
One shot better all day long with 168's and the other shot best with 175's. These two rifles were identical and both BRAND NEW, 0 rounds. They even changed drivers but still had the same results, go figure?

 

[YAOG]

Re: Need opinions on my 700 AAC rifle/groups, HELP?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Eagle1*</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><<SNIPPED>>
I guess my questions are,

1)Is this barreled action shoot good enough from the factory with factory ammo if I do my part?
2)If so, should I go ahead and have the barreled action bedded into my A5 and do you guys think I would get the same groupings with the bedded A5 as the hogue stocked groups got?
3)Or go with the AICS 2.0 and that would save me alot of money since it already has the det mag bottom metal and V bedding block? It is basically a plug and play setup!

It is going to cost me about $200.00 more to get the A5 how I want it compared to the AICS 2.0 and I am torn at the moment. YOUR Thoughts guys?????
</div></div>


Eagle,

There is nothing wrong with your groups and they will probably get better over time. Based on your group sizes and the round count I'd suggest shooting a few hundred more rounds to get familar with the rifle, give the barrel some break-in wear then revisit the question and see how it groups.

The only reason I would say to buy the AICS is if you prefer the way the AICS handles and fits you vs. the A5 and/or for some unknown reason you feel the need for a DBM. But other than for those who regularly compete in tactical comps or actual operators who really needs a DBM? In the real world I'd suggest that you stick with the McMillan A5 and have it bedded by someone who knows what they are doing AFTER you get a decent trigger or have the stock trigger tuned and lightened by a good gunsmith.

Regarding bottom metal if money is an issue just use the stock aluminum Reminigton bottom metal which is cheap very reliable and easy to fit. You can always replace the Remington bottom metal with your choice of bottm metal once you find more money but IMO a better trigger is more useful than fancy bottom metal.

All that having been said I generally like aluminum bedding block systems for cylindical Remington or Remington clone actions if they use a V-block bedding block. I have a B&C Medalist adjustable target/tactical stock and not surprisingly it significantly out shoots the original custom bedded factory fancy walnut, whiteline spacer, black capped old-school BDL stock of my heavy barrel early 70's vintage Varmint Special. Of course the trade-off is weight.

HTH!

 

[YAOG]

Re: Need opinions on my 700 AAC rifle/groups, HELP?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: M700Love</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><<SNIPPED>>

I don't know how much it helped since I never fired it in the hogue stock but I do have it in a B&C A5.

</div></div>


M700Love,

How much torque do you use when mounting your action into your B&C Target/Tactical? Just curious I've been playing with mine and it seem like more is better unlike conventional bedded stock.