Night Vision Need recommend: PVS22 or PVS24 or other clip on

[dckoch]

Need Some help please. In the market for a versatile Clip on unit. Considering either a PVS-22 or L3 M2124 (PVS-24). May consider other based on others feedback. Feel PVS-27 is too heavy. Want to mount on either a 5.56 (mk12 mod1) platform and 7.62 (MK11) and other bolt action 7.62 platforms. Want to use on a fixed power and Variable scopes.
What is everyone's experience and what are your recommendations. Which unit uses the "Best" 3rd generation tube? Any Help is appreciated.

Thank you in advance
David

 

[Asm1]

Re: Need recommend: PVS22 or PVS24 or other clip on

Does size and weight have any performance value ? Sure does when your talking about MK12 type weapons or carry it afield. the M2124 or PVS24 is a good unit, But better used on M4 type weapons 1.5-5x works the best, I have used the pvs24 up to 8x on bright nights, but 5x is pushing the Image quality, I did use it some with a Henni and alot of Hi end optics. I myslef like the CNVDLR or M2124LR useable at 20x, M2124LR packs well and is easy on the lower back it weighs less then the pvs24!. I just tested one before I shipped it out last night here are the snap shots. I like the pvs22 also, But the CNVDLR is My choice hands down, guys that carry and use these know what I am talking about.

NXS 10X

NXS 20X

MR/T 2.5X

MR/T 8X

 

[Victor-TNVC]

Re: Need recommend: PVS22 or PVS24 or other clip on

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dckoch</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Need Some help please. In the market for a versatile Clip on unit. Considering either a PVS-22 or L3 M2124 (PVS-24). May consider other based on others feedback. Feel PVS-27 is too heavy. Want to mount on either a 5.56 (mk12 mod1) platform and 7.62 (MK11) and other bolt action 7.62 platforms. Want to use on a fixed power and Variable scopes.
What is everyone's experience and what are your recommendations. Which unit uses the "Best" 3rd generation tube? Any Help is appreciated.

Thank you in advance
David
</div></div>

Reference this thread as well. http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=3118915#Post3118915 for good talk about the PVS-27/CNVD-LR. Some good info at this thread.

The PVS-24 was made for the SOCOM Block 50 program, it was made for the AGOG and Specter Dr platforms. It has a 56mm Objective lens vs. the 22 at 68mm which brings a more light. Sweet Spot on the 22 is 8-10 in dark conditions.

We do all our testing in worst case scenarios to establish a good base line. Half and full moon are great for day scopes. , but when it's REALLY dark out there is when the clip-ons show their true colors.

It will also come down to your budget as well with approx. 1K just about separating the units.

We have VERY good pricing on all the clip-ons for Hide members, so give us a call and you can see out web site here. http://www.tnvc.com/shop/category/night-vision-clipons/

Hope this helps.

 

[wes1]

Re: Need recommend: PVS22 or PVS24 or other clip on

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dckoch</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Need Some help please. In the market for a versatile Clip on unit. Considering either a PVS-22 or L3 M2124 (PVS-24). May consider other based on others feedback. Feel PVS-27 is too heavy. Want to mount on either a 5.56 (mk12 mod1) platform and 7.62 (MK11) and other bolt action 7.62 platforms. Want to use on a fixed power and Variable scopes.
What is everyone's experience and what are your recommendations. Which unit uses the "Best" 3rd generation tube? Any Help is appreciated.

Thank you in advance
David
</div></div>

What day optics are you using?
I really like the PVS24(short to mid range) and it's big brother CNVD-LR(true long range)
CNVD-LR pics

 

[cj7hawk]

Re: Need recommend: PVS22 or PVS24 or other clip on


Hi David,

Just to add to what's been said, both the PVS-22 and PVS-24 are interesting scopes. Both have relative fast lenses, which are good for all lighting conditions at around F1.15 ( PVS-22 ) and F2.0 ( PVS-24 )

Vic's comments are important to understand, as your dayscope FOV should be taken into consideration as a component of your purchase - no sense mismatching the two - especially given your choice to use zoom optics. As a base, the PVS-22 FOV is 15.1 degrees while the PVS-24 is 18.6 or thereabouts.

This means at higher magnifications you will find the PVS-22 is probably of better use -so I would tend to consider it unless you have a wide-FOV fixed-zoom scope and intend to use that more often.

About tubes though? Neither really comes with a "Better" tube - however some things to consider are the tube specs, whatever the housing.

Look for high S/N ( Signal to Noise ) - over 26:1 is ideal but avoid anything under 21:1 if possible unless you're getting a really great deal. Also, if you go autogated, you will have better high light performance as well, under conditions like moonlight. Speak to the seller about what you're putting it on though and they should be able to advice about best tube selection.

Hope this helps -

Regards
David

 

[GBMaryland]

Re: Need recommend: PVS22 or PVS24 or other clip on

I replaced my PVS-4 units with L3 based PVS-14s and PVS-24s.

The PVS-24 works very well with 1-6 power optics and it does grab light well. It also weighs almost nothing.

You must make sure that the tube specs are very high... S/N must be well above 21... Mine is quite a bit higher than that. Also, you need verify that the there are not flaws t all in the first zone. (Any flaws or issues get magnified...)

It does appear that L3 hand selects tubes to ensue you get a great quality unit... The "Omega" I have is actual better the the best MilSpec AN/PVS-14 tubes (L3) I've seen... (I've gone through a lot of spec sheets... Which give an idea of how a tube will look.)

I would say that you need an optic the goes from 1-6x, or to use it with a scope that starts around 3.5x. (I'm looking at the new leupolds for the first case.)

It works great with an ACOG, very well with a NF NXS 3.5x15 (at lower magnifications), and ok with 4.5xX leupolds.

If you really plan on trying distance shooting and need higher magnification, I'd look at the CNVD-LR.

 

[dckoch]

Re: Need recommend: PVS22 or PVS24 or other clip on

Thank you everyone for your input. I still have not decided which way to go but If I want a CVND-LR then I need to wait for Summit Nightvision's contract to be up if I want to get one at "wholesale".

I think for the time being I my just go with the PVS-24 over the PVs-22. Seems like a robust unit that will fill my curret needs.

Thanks again all. Really a great forum.

David

 

[edwin907]

Re: Need recommend: PVS22 or PVS24 or other clip on

I got a Mil-Spec AN/PVS-22 from Vic when it first became legal to sell to civies, and have been very pleased, it was the right choice for me. The 27 tested was quite a bit more capable, but for primary use on AR in 5.56 and bolt in .308 the 22 became the best choice.
With TA11C, TA31 and TA31F, as well as TA55A ACOGs it's been a solid performer,
Combined with the 3.5-15X NSX and 3.2-17X SN-3 performance is also good, even at the higher mags near 12X. It even offers decent use with the MK4 PF4 Leupold spotter at minimal mag.
The USO SN-3 1.8-10X37 seems a particularly good match, with a laser IL, very capable.

 

[I^2 Technologies - Peter]

Re: Need recommend: PVS22 or PVS24 or other clip on

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: edwin907</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I got a Mil-Spec AN/PVS-22 from Vic when it first became legal to sell to civies, and have been very pleased, it was the right choice for me. The 27 tested was quite a bit more capable, but for primary use on AR in 5.56 and bolt in .308 the 22 became the best choice.
With TA11C, TA31 and TA31F, as well as TA55A ACOGs it's been a solid performer,
Combined with the 3.5-15X NSX and 3.2-17X SN-3 performance is also good, even at the higher mags near 12X. It even offers decent use with the MK4 PF4 Leupold spotter at minimal mag.
The USO SN-3 1.8-10X37 seems a particularly good match, with a laser IL, very capable. </div></div>

Hi Edwin haven't seen you around in a while. Hey post up your really excellent pics of the 22 with various day scopes again! Those were really good.

I think I am a bit more conservative in my estimation of what either a 22 or a 24 can do sharply. I find that 10 power (for the 22) is stretching it for a clear image. To give a comparison, this is about the same degree of separation as putting the PVS 24 in front of an 8 power optic. So for me, the PVS 22 is clear up to 8 power and stretching at 10, and the PVS 24 is clear up to 6 power and stretching it to 8 power. Now that being said I do run both, past what I comfortably like for clarity.

Remember the PVS 22 and the PVS 24 are NOT analogous products! The PVS 24 and the OSTI TANS are. The PVS 22 is a mid range scope and I think the comparisons come out because the 24 is a full $1000 cheaper than the TANS so NO ONE buys the TANs. As such there are alot of 24s on the market but very few TANs.

Another example is the Knights UNS SR it was truly developed for the ACOG and it is really clear at 3.5 power and 4 is it's upper limit of sharp clarity.

As a side note I have come to the conclusion the the UNS SR's strong suit is in front of your favorite 1 to 4 power with the 1 to 4 mounted in the Knights one Piece scope mount. PERFECT Day Optic to Clip on Alignment there. It gives a new dimension to the 1 to 4 game.

My years as a Land Scape Photographer have turned me into a sharpness snob I am afraid.

So my advice to anyone thinking about buying a clip on is this. Pick the clip on that best matches the Day optics power range your going to be using the clip on with. These are my recommendations for what I consider sharp image quality.

1-4 Day Scope - UNS-SR, PVS-24, TANs
1-6 Day Scope - PVS-24, TANs
1-8 Day Scope - PVS-22
Above 8 power - PVS-26, PVS-27, PVS-30, CNVD-LR

IPSC_GUY
SIERRA II ALPHA

 

[Victor-TNVC]

Re: Need recommend: PVS22 or PVS24 or other clip on

Magnification estimations vary with the amount of ambient light as well, they are not set in stone along with one using IR illumination or not.

Taking pics to "sell" with full or half moon and not declaring what the environment is leads to false impressions what the scope can and cannot due. Many DAY scopes can do well in a full or half moon environment. ;-)

Speaking of day scopes...Here is another factor that plays into the magnification numbers game...

Throwing out magnification numbers of clip-ons, has to be based on a good qaulity day scope. Case in point. Just last week we get a call from a customer of just purchased a CNVD-LR from us and I get the "Vic, the scope cannot see past 100 yards at 8x!" First thing I ask is the obvious questions, day cover, gain, etc. Long story short, his day optic was a 16 year old Leupy Vari-X 4-14 that did squat for light gathering ability and his clip-on suffered immensely. His next scope he tried out was a modern day Zeiss and he then reported DRAMATIC improvements of over 50% better down range views.

Obviously there is a limit with absolute resolution with any clip-on with the best day scope, and cranking up a PVS-24 to 20x with gobs of IR will prove senseless due to the f/stop, objective lens size etc. We've gotten the PVS-22 at 12x with a lot of IR light and the 24 at 8x looking pretty good. Once again though, environment, day scope used are all key here.

Another words environment plays a huge deal what magnification one can see and shoot for.


Edited: the PVS-24 was and is STILL made specifically for the 4x ACOG and Elcan Specter DR for the Crane SOCOM Block 50 Program.

Vic

 

[wes1]

Re: Need recommend: PVS22 or PVS24 or other clip on

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: IPSC_GUY</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: edwin907</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I got a Mil-Spec AN/PVS-22 from Vic when it first became legal to sell to civies, and have been very pleased, it was the right choice for me. The 27 tested was quite a bit more capable, but for primary use on AR in 5.56 and bolt in .308 the 22 became the best choice.
With TA11C, TA31 and TA31F, as well as TA55A ACOGs it's been a solid performer,
Combined with the 3.5-15X NSX and 3.2-17X SN-3 performance is also good, even at the higher mags near 12X. It even offers decent use with the MK4 PF4 Leupold spotter at minimal mag.
The USO SN-3 1.8-10X37 seems a particularly good match, with a laser IL, very capable. </div></div>

Hi Edwin haven't seen you around in a while. Hey post up your really excellent pics of the 22 with various day scopes again! Those were really good.

I think I am a bit more conservative in my estimation of what either a 22 or a 24 can do sharply. I find that 10 power (for the 22) is stretching it for a clear image. To give a comparison, this is about the same degree of separation as putting the PVS 24 in front of an 8 power optic. So for me, the PVS 22 is clear up to 8 power and stretching at 10, and the PVS 24 is clear up to 6 power and stretching it to 8 power. Now that being said I do run both, past what I comfortably like for clarity.

Remember the PVS 22 and the PVS 24 are NOT analogous products! The PVS 24 and the OSTI TANS are. The PVS 22 is a mid range scope and I think the comparisons come out because the 24 is a full $1000 cheaper than the TANS so NO ONE buys the TANs. As such there are alot of 24s on the market but very few TANs.

Another example is the Knights UNS SR it was truly developed for the ACOG and it is really clear at 3.5 power and 4 is it's upper limit of sharp clarity.

As a side note I have come to the conclusion the the UNS SR's strong suit is in front of your favorite 1 to 4 power with the 1 to 4 mounted in the Knights one Piece scope mount. PERFECT Day Optic to Clip on Alignment there. It gives a new dimension to the 1 to 4 game.

My years as a Land Scape Photographer have turned me into a sharpness snob I am afraid.

So my advice to anyone thinking about buying a clip on is this. Pick the clip on that best matches the Day optics power range your going to be using the clip on with. These are my recommendations for what I consider sharp image quality.

1-4 Day Scope - UNS-SR, PVS-24, TANs
1-6 Day Scope - PVS-24, TANs
1-8 Day Scope - PVS-22
Above 8 power - PVS-26, PVS-27, PVS-30, CNVD-LR

IPSC_GUY
SIERRA II ALPHA

</div></div>


Great info here

 

[cj7hawk]

Re: Need recommend: PVS22 or PVS24 or other clip on

A quick little table - Assuming that the UNS-SR as mentioned is suitable for 4x dayscopes ( Approx resolution 28 lp/mm equiv - About the same as early Gen2 ) here's a table of zoom levels at which the resolution is equal.

The first number is the system resolution - The higher the better.

The second number is the "Equivalent Zoom" level based on the UNS-SR as a baseline.

The PVS-14 is included for comparison. ( eg, How it would compare if used as a CNVD )

Please note, these are all "Bright Night" specs - where there is plenty of light - eg, Moonlight. In darker conditions, their order would not be the same - eg, The PVS-27 would eventually outperform the CNVD-LR as conditions got darker.

Regards
David.

Scope - CY/MR - <span style="font-weight: bold">Zoom</span>
PVS-14 - 1.67 - <span style="font-weight: bold">2.3</span>
UNS-SR - 2.92 - <span style="font-weight: bold">4.0</span>
TANs - 3.23 - <span style="font-weight: bold">4.4</span>
PVS-24 - 3.55 - <span style="font-weight: bold">4.9</span>
PVS-22 / BNS - 4.38 - <span style="font-weight: bold">6.0</span>
PVS-27 / MUNS - 5.91 - <span style="font-weight: bold">8.1</span>
CNVD-LR - 7.06 - <span style="font-weight: bold">9.7</span>
PVS-26 / UNS-LRPR - 7.69 - <span style="font-weight: bold">10.5</span>

 

[km2006dmax]

Re: Need recommend: PVS22 or PVS24 or other clip on

Great info already posted on clip ons. I have a 24 and like it for what I use it for. It usually sits in front of a meopta k-dot or a leo 1.5x5.5 vx3. Most of the time I use it on 2.5-3x due to shooting pigs up close. It makes it much easier to pick them up on the movers right after the first shot. I've used it up to 5.5x, but to me the image goes down in quality very fast after 4x. In dark conditions it really struggles at the higher magnifications.

Pros of the 24 are;the lighter weight and physical size, the focus adjustment. Great scope for a particular role.

The 22 will give you more flexibility with higher magnification scopes, however I'm no fan of the focus adjustment.

Saying this, it really depends on what your going to use it for, and what glass your going to be putting behind it. Both are quality products.

 

[ggmanning]

Re: Need recommend: PVS22 or PVS24 or other clip on

Nitehog has a new clip on coming out. It is going to be optimized for up to 8x or roughly PVS22 specs and the TNVC will be for 4-6x or roughly PVS24 specs from what I gather asking about the 2 units. They are going to be priced pretty similarly. I prefer the 8x but I know what I am getting with TNVC......anybody have experience or opinion on Nitehog in general?

 

[cj7hawk]

Re: Need recommend: PVS22 or PVS24 or other clip on

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ggmanning</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Nitehog has a new clip on coming out. It is going to be optimized for up to 8x or roughly PVS22 specs and the TNVC will be for 4-6x or roughly PVS24 specs from what I gather asking about the 2 units. They are going to be priced pretty similarly. I prefer the 8x but I know what I am getting with TNVC......anybody have experience or opinion on Nitehog in general? </div></div>

Hmmm. I'm not sure what I can say and can't say, but the TNVC proposed clip on isn't the same as the original prototype and I think you have the specs confused. While I won't mention what it is, I will say that I think you've defaulted to the system resolution of the older model and you shouldn't read the above comparison into the new model based on what the manufacturer has mentioned about it.

Or simply put, expect higher resolution.

Regards
David

 

[ggmanning]

Re: Need recommend: PVS22 or PVS24 or other clip on

Thanks David. Good to hear TNVC's unit is going to be higher resolution because based on what I understood from inquiring I had pretty much crossed off the TNVC clip on. Obviously my preference is to buy a TNVC unit.

 

[GBMaryland]

Re: Need recommend: PVS22 or PVS24 or other clip on

I will add the the L3 PVS-24 is highly dependant on the tube in the unit... though, honestly, they seem to select the best L3 tubes for them.

I find my PVS-24 works very well at 3.5 with a Night Force scope or ACOG.

...not so great past the 5x magnification, and I've got a great tube.