Need schooling on the Springfield 1903

[madppcs]

So me and my family were on vacation and of course while cruising around I did a google shops for (Gun Shops). Well one appeared close and we stopped by. I was quite surprised at the collection he had there and one of his walls looked to be dedicated to old collectibles. I noticed the old 1903 and asked to see it. I didnt see any obvious dates, just Springfield. I also didnt know how to recognize features and be able to narrow them down to a range of manufacture date.

I just saw the price tag of 1300 and knew it was either a ripoff or the real deal. So moving forward, can you fellas school me on the 1903? I would really like one of these rifles cause I love history ( and guns) and I knew I would either be kicking myself cause this may have been one of those rare finds, or maybe my ignorance saved me from spending a pile of money on something that was way overpriced.

 

[schambers]

I'm also interested to hear what people have to say on this subject

 

[RTH1800]

Hard to answer that on this forum. Similar to asking the value of a Chevy.
Going to need to do your homework. View auctions, private sales, go to gun shows, Gunbroker, Guns International etc. Huge subject. Bottom line is you are likely luck you passed. I have some Springfields. Nothing I would care to shoot. Just old relics to me. I much prefer the '98 Mauser and shoot many of them. Sorry I cannot be more specific. Just a huge subject.

 

[isofahunter]

First thing you should buy is "The M1903 Springfield Rifle and its Variations" by Joe Poyer.
This will save you from pissing money away and give you some guide posts to use as you search for one. There are all sorts of variation some vary rare the DCM-NRA M1922M1 that were converted to M2 only 114 of those were made. Once you know what you are looking for you can then get an idea of value via auction sites, and forums.

I love the 1903 and always stop to look at them and have several in the stable right now. The most recent one being a sporterized 1903 that I paid 375 dollars for and it is a joy to shoot and carry. The first big rifle I shot was a 1903 A3.

Sub 800,000 serial numbered Springfield and sub 285,507 RIA are considered unsafe to fire due to improper heat treatment of the receivers and should be priced accordingly. There are those that argue otherwise but something you should know ahead of time.

If you find a Springfield you can send the serial number to Springfield Research Service and they will check the records they have and might be able to give you history on where the gun has been. I have had two come back with detailed information and other were a bust.

You probably did not miss anything by leaving that one behind IMO.

 

[RTH1800]

Lot of Springfields had the numbers changed to appear to be safe. It was common. You need to do research to see what stampings should look like.

 

[isofahunter]

Lot of Springfields had the numbers changed to appear to be safe. It was common. You need to do research to see what stampings should look like.

That is why the book is the first purchase I recommended.

 

[kraigWY]

From the prices in my neck of the woods, A M1903 in good shape, and later then 800,000 serial numbers, for $1300 would cause me to walk out of the store with a 1903 and $1300 poorer.

I have a A3, and its one of the best shooting rifles I have, I need a M1903, but I'm a shooter so it would have to be a late model.

I know opionions vary, some say they shoot the Low numbers without any problems. I wont get in that debate except to add that I am a CMP MI and conduct CMP GSM Clinics and Matches. Per the CMP rules I wouldnt be allowed to let one shoot a low number any any santioned clinic or match.

 

[Random Guy]

Always read some references books on vintage military gear before buying anything. Along with Poyers book I recommend Bruce Canfields book on the 1903 Springfield. Easy reading with nice pictures and well researched. It’s on amazon for maybe $25. Educate yourself before you drop $1300 on an early 20th century rifle....they were not all created equal and value can range from $300 for an ugly and abused sporter to $3000 for a documented original National Match 1903. My 2cts worth..

 

[Forgetful Coyote]

Hard to answer that on this forum. Similar to asking the value of a Chevy.
Going to need to do your homework. View auctions, private sales, go to gun shows, Gunbroker, Guns International etc. Huge subject. Bottom line is you are likely luck you passed. I have some Springfields. Nothing I would care to shoot. Just old relics to me. I much prefer the '98 Mauser and shoot many of them. Sorry I cannot be more specific. Just a huge subject.

Curious, what makes you prefer the Mauser?
@kraigWY didnt you say you shoot Garands better than '03's?

 

[Dan M]

There isn't one definitive reference book on the M1903 Service Rifle.

I don't care for the Poyer book. Canfield's Illustrated Guide to the '03 Springfield Service Rifle is a good one, Clark Campbell's The '03 Springfield Rifles Era is another good read. Brophy's The Springfield 1903 Rifles isn't bad but showing it's age (circa 1985). Ned Crossman's The Book of The Springfield is a classic. For the Rock Island rifles, the gold standard book is C.S, Ferris' Rock Island Rifle Model 1903.

You will find many 1903s that have been rebuilt... some several times. Know your subject well so you can evaluate the rifle in your hands. The price could be excessive for a rebuilt beater or significantly undervalued for an original condition rifle. If you are wanting one for a shooter find a Remington... no question about the rifle from a materials strength perspective. As far as collectable condition low number '03s, don't expect to try and haggle down the price over the fact that it is a low number... really nice original '03s are hard to find. They are sought after for originality and condition, not for their ability to be fired.

 

[RTH1800]

Mauser/Springfield preference.
Mauser has lower bolt due to the Springfield safety lug being on top.
Two piece firing pin is prone to breakage.
Springfield lacks the internal, integral saftey stop on the firing pin that prevents firing until bolt is fully closed.
Springfield safety works backwards and has more complex design.
Springfield is generally more complex and less robust.
Mauser handles escaping gas far more safely than Springfield.
Other than that they are practically similar. ?

 

[Dan M]

Another minor complaint about the M1903 Service Rifle...The M1905 rear sight works best with youthful eyes... on days where lighting is less than optimal I can’t see crap through those sights anymore. Not a fan of the Mauser’s barleycorn front and v notch rear but still can see them well enough to bang steel mid range.

 

[pmclaine]

$1300 would be the price of an exceptional M1903 in my area.

If you follow the for sale forums at CMP/Culver's you can usually find a nice serviceable one for $800-900.

I have a local honey hole that usually has a rack full and good serviceable rifles are under $1K, special or really clean rifles go over $1K.

You didn't miss much, your rifle is out there. If you are in Northeast I'd be happy to help.

 

[schambers]

Wanted to let you all know that I appreciate the input you all have thrown in.

I'm dead set on trying to a 1093A4. Currently stationed over seas so it will (unfortunately) be a few years before I'll be able to purchase one but this thread definately gave me some stuff to think and read about in the mean time.

Crossing my fingers that A4's don't drastically go up in price or become harder to find before I get back to the land of the free.

 

[pmclaine]

Wanted to let you all know that I appreciate the input you all have thrown in.

I'm dead set on trying to a 1093A4. Currently stationed over seas so it will (unfortunately) be a few years before I'll be able to purchase one but this thread definately gave me some stuff to think and read about in the mean time.

Crossing my fingers that A4's don't drastically go up in price or become harder to find before I get back to the land of the free.

Consider buying a donor sporter 03A3 than send your parts to the CMP and they will build it in to an A4.

It wont be legit historically but you will have a good shooting experience.

 

[schambers]

I'm not looking to have a 100% parts matching rifle. Ideally I'll end up with a shooter rifle with as many time period correct pieces as possible.

Interesting to hear that the CMP does that kind of stuff. I'll have to send them an email to pick their brains a bit.

didn't mean to hijack the thread btw

 

[pmclaine]

Parts on an 03 dont "match" as per say a numbered Mauser but their is "correct" meaning the various parts were of the era/manufacturer when that receiver may have been put together.

Once issued cleaning parties likely resulted in parts swapping and "original" rifles are rare.

I love the 03 and am a big proponent of having others enjoy the love.

I can check out my local shop and provide you contact/pictures of some rifles.

If something appeals to you contact the owner and buy it. He ships to FFL.

I believe your interest is in the A3 with thoughts of making a faux A4.

A4 receivers are exceedingly expensive and the bolts, once available, are harder to come by.

An A3 with a poor straight stock (or a good straight stock you can sell to get funds for an A4 build) would be the way to go.

You could restock in CMP or Minelli C stock drill it and use a leatherwood repro A4 scope.

If you decide to spend more find a decent Keystone C stock and look for a GI scope.

Keep in mind these are not precision guns. They are impressive for their era but if you think you will consistently clover leaf the cost will not meet your performance expectations.

 

[schambers]

Didn't know that the receivers were different and the facts about the parts swapping. Some examples to the fact that I still have a lot of research to do. I appreciate the offer on the local shop but I'll be bouncing around europe until 2020 so no firearms fun for me for a while.

I noticed that AIM Surplus has A4's (or what they called A4's) on their website, which are now sold out. I'm have an email alert set up for if/when they have some more in stock. What are ya'lls opinions on those?

I don't necessarily want the gun for precision shooting, I have plenty of modern bolt guns to do that. I just think its an interesting weapon and for some reason, my firearms collection consist of modern guns which are paired with their equivalent in a WWII era firearm. Didn't really plan it that way... just kind of happened.

 

[pmclaine]

An A4 receiver was made only by Remington and the stamping on the front ring is divided and offset so as not to be hidden by the scope mount .

On the left side it will say IIRC

US Rifle
03A3

and on the right

Remington
Serial number

as opposed to

US Rifle
03A3
Smith Corona
Serial Number

 

[pmclaine]

Didn't know that the receivers were different and the facts about the parts swapping. Some examples to the fact that I still have a lot of research to do. I appreciate the offer on the local shop but I'll be bouncing around europe until 2020 so no firearms fun for me for a while.

I noticed that AIM Surplus has A4's (or what they called A4's) on their website, which are now sold out. I'm have an email alert set up for if/when they have some more in stock. What are ya'lls opinions on those?

I don't necessarily want the gun for precision shooting, I have plenty of modern bolt guns to do that. I just think its an interesting weapon and for some reason, my firearms collection consist of modern guns which are paired with their equivalent in a WWII era firearm. Didn't really plan it that way... just kind of happened.

A lot of the Aim etc 03s were built off drill rifles.

You will get divided opinions.

If the drill procedure was not excessive and the restoration done correctly Id say they are great shooters.

Its a nice way to get an otherwise useless prop back into shooting without destroying an unmolested receiver.

and your expectations are reasonable.

I shoot my old guns for the experience but that said they still impress with their performance, just not as consistently as a custom, but neither is the shooter imressive.

 

[schambers]

thanks again for the fast responses and different ways to think about attacking the problem of finding a A4 type variety that will suit my needs. Look forward to hearing other opinions on the A4 and the 1093 in general. Will have to remember to save this thread for the future.