Need some advice for a 223 bolt gun build

[r3plicator]

I know there's already some threads on this but I'm suffering from information overload and I need a sanity check (or reality bitch-slap).

I'm new to custom action bolt guns. I have a CZ 527 in 223 that I adore. However, I want to build a custom bolt gun in 223 that lobs the 53 grain v-max bullets into prairie dogs at 600 yards. Maybe that range is unrealistic. I dunno. I've been tagging the little buggers at 350 yards fairly consistently with the 527.

I just snagged an ARC Archimedes during their sale. Now I need a barrel. I'm thinking a 26-inch 1:12 barrel in a heavy varmint or similar profile.

I was looking at a barrel from Patriot Valley Arms. They have two free bore choices: 062 and 100. Which should I choose?

I'm also new to reloading and just started experimenting with the 223 cartridge in the CZ 527. I know I'll need to work up a different load for the custom bolt gun, but I have lot to learn.

Does any of this sound stupid? Any advice?

 

[shooterpunk]

Are you wanting to shoot heavier bullets? With a 12 twist you're pretty limited to mostly lighter varmint bullets.

 

[r3plicator]

Are you wanting to shoot heavier bullets? With a 12 twist you're pretty limited to mostly lighter varmint bullets.

I'm not sure. I guess I was sticking to the 53 v-max because I wanted a bullet I'm familiar with and is relatively frangible. I'm not opposed to a heavier bullet. What are my choices in heavier bullets if I'm worried about a bullet skipping off into sunset?

 

[The D]

I’d imagine with some smaller .223 varmint bullets you only need the short freebore chamber.

 

[bunsen27]

I run two separate rifles for PDogs. One shooting 53/55 Vmax and the other shooting 73/75 ELD-M's. 600yds with the 53gr is less than optimal, but with the 73/75 is doable. For the 73/75gr I'm running a 26" Criterion 1 in 8", Wylde chambered heavy varmint and pushing them to 3k fps for reference. The 53/55gr is a 1 in 9" Savage 26" .223Rem chambered rifle.

 

[r3plicator]

I run two separate rifles for PDogs. One shooting 53/55 Vmax and the other shooting 73/75 ELD-M's. 600yds with the 53gr is less than optimal, but with the 73/75 is doable. For the 73/75gr I'm running a 26" Criterion 1 in 8", Wylde chambered heavy varmint and pushing them to 3k fps for reference. The 53/55gr is a 1 in 9" Savage 26" .223Rem chambered rifle.

Nice! I hear ya. I have this naive idea that if my 1-ish MOA mass-produced bolt gun could shoot pdogs at 300 yards, then a 1/2-ish MOA custom bolt gun would reach 600 yards. I know it's not that simple, but I can dream.

I'm probably over thinking this but do you worry about the ELDs richocheting? I don't want to be the asshat that kills a rancher's cow on the other side of a hill (or worse).

Any advise on free bore for either bullet?

 

[Clark]

My brother's main prairie dog gun for 20 years has bee a 223 built with a 16" twist Douglas meant for rimfire.
He can stabilize a 52 gr bullet, but not a 55 grain.

He was a lot slimmer 20 years ago, but he still goes to the same dog town, 20 miles from his house.

 

[bunsen27]

I'm probably over thinking this but do you worry about the ELDs richocheting? I don't want to be the asshat that kills a rancher's cow on the other side of a hill (or worse).

Any advise on free bore for either bullet?

The 73gr ELD'ms tend to fragment in my experience. When we PDog hunt we shoot suppressed without ears and I don't recall ever hearing a ricochet. Although once our guide had us convinced we might have killed a cow. It was laying on it's side splayed out for a good 15min and looked dead...that is until it woke up from it's nap!!

For the 73/75gr I run them LONG almost out to maximum inside magazine length, which in my case is 2.550in for the MDT Polymer magazines.

I think I'm jumping ~0.010-0.020in. The load I run is 25gr of TAC in a LC or Lapua case with a CCI41. It is HOT and near book max for 5.56 NATO load data, which is COL =2.260in for reference. I tried both WSR and CCI400 but was sporadically getting pierced primers, none so far with the CCI41.

 

[RMB]

I shoot the 53 gr Vmax in my 223 in a rem 700 20" bull barrel 1:9 twist..and go out west two or three times a year to South Dakota Prairie Dog Shooting. I get about 3,050 FPS at the muzzle (with a magneto speed). The longest I have got is 713 yards...on a PERFECT day. I worked up a range card (based on the supplied BC) and I am convinced that it is a bit "optimistic". It is right on the money out to about 550/600 yards. Then the range card is useless and you have to 'walk them in'. That being said the bullet is really destructive and works well. I am in the process of working up a load with a 69GR SMK as these are available....yeah it won't have the same destructive affect but I feel I can reach out farther.

 

[RMB]

here is a 'town from last June.

 

[huntnh]

I’d definitely look at 1/7 if you go 1/12 your reall limited to bullet selection

 

[RMB]

Totally agree with "huntnh"....a 1:7 or even 1:8 opens up all sorts of bullet options!

 

[short_mag]

Just some thoughts -

I have built numerous .223 bolt guns for sage rats and varmints in eastern Oregon/Washington If you want to shoot 40-55 grain varmint bullets, a 1:12 with a .062 freebore, would be great (that is what I use). I have had light weight / varmint bullets due strange things when you spin them too fast - not usually a problem in a standard .223. Light bullets are a challenge for 500yds plus - but still fun it take the shot in the right conditions.

Something to consider in a profile - I like to use a Medium Palma profile barrel / 20-22" long:

• Recoil is not an issue in .223
• Don't need the extra weight -
• Might allow the scope to be mounted just a bit lower which is nice on a lot of standard varmint stocks

PVA does great work and you will be happy with their product. I also love their muzzle brakes, if you are thinking of putting one on.

 

[Jayhawkhuntclub]

In my experience, a 1:7 will shoot anything from 50 to 88 gr quite well.

 

[Txshooter3]

1/12 twist will require a light bullet.
A light bullet won't go 600yds.
To go 600, you'll need 69gr or heavier.

 

[r3plicator]

Thanks for the advise everyone. This is immensely helpful.

One of the reasons I was leaning toward a slower twist is because my 527 is a 1:9 twist and I've noticed that it likes the 62-grain varmageddon more than the 53-grain vmax. It will group the 62 grain bullet at about 3/4" on good days. I thought that a 1:12 twist might work better for the 53 grain bullets. Of course, I'm also new to reloading and haven't really figured out what the hell I'm doing. I suspect an experienced reloader can get the 53 grain bullets to group well out of my 527.

 

[Andielouroo]

I just had a rifle built with one of these Bartlein Carbon barrels and it has been absolutely amazing so far. The attached pic is the first 5 shot group through the barrel with FGMM after sight in. Dane Miller at DMR did the work.

 

[Codiekfx400]

A keystone accuracy 223 wylde 24” 1-8 twist krieger upper threaded 5/8-24 for a self timing muzzle brake is hell on a p dog town. Personally if your set on a bolt gun go 8 twist and shoot 75 eld bullets. If your going to shoot a vmax go with the ar.

 

[Packfan]

A keystone accuracy 223 wylde 24” 1-8 twist krieger upper threaded 5/8-24 for a self timing muzzle brake is hell on a p dog town. Personally if your set on a bolt gun go 8 twist and shoot 75 eld bullets. If your going to shoot a vmax go with the ar.

Good to know. I am also in the middle of a .223 build. I will likely shoot primarily 69 to 80 grains so I am planning on a 7 twist Wylde in either 24 or 26 inch from Keystone. John doesn't have the Krieger barrel I need so I am looking at alternatives including a Rock Creek.

 

[Pappasniper]

I'm looking to build a 223 bolt right now too. Go with the option to shoot heavier bullets, great trainer for LR precision shooting too.

 

[Huckmeat]

I just built one designed around shooting the 77g class bullets. I was using a 6 creed, but the thrust per squeeze only paid off when they lined up so I could get 2 per shot. Have fun.

 

[Shoots 700's]

I would run a 1-7 twist with .062 free bore

 

[Packfan]

I'm shooting a 1:8" .223 Wylde 26" barrel. Primarily for 75gr bullets, but it will shoot 52gr bullets. IMO a 1:7" is overkill. It'll probably blow up the lighter bullets and is only necessary for 80+ gr bullets. A 1:12" is likewise extreme on the other end of the spectrum.

I would agree with other posters, if you want 500yds plus you need 68 to 75gr bullets.

Thanks for the opinion and data. I was sold on the 7 twist as I thought it would be the sweet spot for 68-80's. Hopefully, whatever barrel I get likes the 77 Hornady ELD-M's.

Obviously, barrels are tough to find right now without a long wait. Tonight I found a Krieger 8 twist cut rifled 4 groove from Krieger Direct and Bugholes has a Rock Creek 7 twist cut rifled 5R. I am planning on a Remington Varmint contour to keep the weight down a little.

I was going with the Rock Creek, but the Krieger is only $40.00 more, which will not break the bank. (As my pop used to say: "What's another glass of water to a drowning man?")

 

[Matt_3479]

I don’t know if I’d every build a 223 without atleast a 1:8 to keep options open. My 1:8 stabilizes and hammers 40gr blitzkings into .2’s and 80 grain amax’s into .4’s. Just keeps options more open

 

[Scrumbag]

I have a CZ527 American and I enjoy it.

The 1:9 twist I find is great for hunting and shoots 55-65gr bullets with scary accuracy.

53gr at 600 yds to me sounds sketchy. If I was building a 600yd rig I'd be looking at a heavier bullet if I could and for choice I'd go for a Sierra 60gr TMK, 60gr VMAX or a 60 gr Nosler Ballistic Tip (Varmint / Orange) to get the bit more weight as will be a touch more forgiving on field wind calls.

1:8 twist gets you up to ~80gr and possibly more like where I'd want to be with 73gr ELD-M which I believe would open up.

Check your bottom metal and mag choice if that matters to you as tipper bullets really benefit from longer than 2.26" OALs

Sounds a fun build! Pics when done?

 

[r3plicator]

I have a CZ527 American and I enjoy it.

The 1:9 twist I find is great for hunting and shoots 55-65gr bullets with scary accuracy.

53gr at 600 yds to me sounds sketchy. If I was building a 600yd rig I'd be looking at a heavier bullet if I could and for choice I'd go for a Sierra 60gr TMK, 60gr VMAX or a 60 gr Nosler Ballistic Tip (Varmint / Orange) to get the bit more weight as will be a touch more forgiving on field wind calls.

1:8 twist gets you up to ~80gr and possibly more like where I'd want to be with 73gr ELD-M which I believe would open up.

Check your bottom metal and mag choice if that matters to you as tipper bullets really benefit from longer than 2.26" OALs

Sounds a fun build! Pics when done?

Nice! I have the 527 Carbine. I was looking for the varmint but stumbled across the carbine for good price. For whatever reason, the only factory ammo it likes is the 62-grain varmeggons (about 3/4" to 1"). Everything else shoots closer to 2". I'm using this gun to learn how to reload. I'm trying to get the 53-grain v-max bullets to work with the reused factory brass. I picked a hell of a time to start learning how to reload...

I'll try to remember to post pics when it's all done. I'm having some analysis paralysis on barrel specs. After the feedback on this thread and countless hours reading other threads, I'm leaning toward a 26" 1:8-twist throwing 73/75-grain ELDs. I also picked a hell of a time to have a barrel spun...

 

[Scrumbag]

Yeah, not the easiest time for any parts.

Try the 62gr Federal Fusion. My CZ527 loves it!

 

[r3plicator]

I just ordered a PVA 26" Rock Creek barrel chambered in 223 Wylde with a 0.62 freebore. I wanted a 1:8 twist, but they only offer 1:7. From the comments above, I think that will be alright if I'm planning on shooting 73/75-grain ELDMs.

Thanks for all the help folks.

 

[Pappasniper]

Yes, you should be golden shooting the heavies.

PB

 

[Packfan]

I just ordered a PVA 26" Rock Creek barrel chambered in 223 Wylde with a 0.62 freebore. I wanted a 1:8 twist, but they only offer 1:7. From the comments above, I think that will be alright if I'm planning on shooting 73/75-grain ELDMs.

Thanks for all the help folks.

Wow. We are really on parallel paths with our .223 builds. I just ordered a Rock Creek 7 twist 26" cut rifled Remington varmint contour barrel from BugHoles. It is going to Keystone Accuracy to be married with an Origin action. I am also going with .223 Wylde and am targeting the Hornady 75 ELD-M. Pretty cool.

 

[r3plicator]

Wow. We are really on parallel paths with our .223 builds. I just ordered a Rock Creek 7 twist 26" cut rifled Remington varmint contour barrel from BugHoles. It is going to Keystone Accuracy to be married with an Origin action. I am also going with .223 Wylde and am targeting the Hornady 75 ELD-M. Pretty cool.

That's funny, I got cut rifle too. I wasn't going to go with such a heavy bullet originally, but the responses in this thread changed my mind.

The damn ARC sale screwed me over... I tried to resist, but here I am building my first custom bolt-gun.

Stupid question: what is Keystone Accuracy doing exactly?

 

[Packfan]

I am sending them the contoured Rock Creek barrel and they will chamber it in .223 Wylde, thread and fit it to the Origin action, cut it to length at 26 inches, and thread the muzzle at 5/8-24. They could have "pre-fit" the barrel to the Origin, but I don't have the tools necessary to install it here (barrel vice, action wrench, and go/no go guages). Maybe next time. This time I sent the action to them for assembly.

Did you go with the ARC Nucleus during their sale? I was tempted, but decided to stick with the Origin.

 

[whatsupdoc]

You are not going to be disappointed in a 1:7 twist, I shoot a Criterion 223 1:7 twist with their match chamber (long throat) it
shoots 60TMK, 69TMK, 77TMK, 69SMK, 70VLD, 75VLD and 80VLD into small little groups.
The only bullet I have tried in that barrel that it cant properly digest is the 75ELDM.

When this one dies I am going to get the exact same barrel.

 

[r3plicator]

I am sending them the contoured Rock Creek barrel and they will chamber it in .223 Wylde, thread and fit it to the Origin action, cut it to length at 26 inches, and thread the muzzle at 5/8-24. They could have "pre-fit" the barrel to the Origin, but I don't have the tools necessary to install it here (barrel vice, action wrench, and go/no go guages). Maybe next time. This time I sent the action to them for assembly.

Did you go with the ARC Nucleus during their sale? I was tempted, but decided to stick with the Origin.

Got it, thanks! I was worried for a second that I was forgetting something that required a gunsmith. I want to build this rifle so I ordered the action wrench and gauges. I haven't figured out what I'm doing for a barrel vice yet.

I bought the Achimedes, which was also on sale. I was interested in the extraction design. Maybe it's just a gimmick, but it's fun to try new things.

 

[Packfan]

Got it, thanks! I was worried for a second that I was forgetting something that required a gunsmith. I want to build this rifle so I ordered the action wrench and gauges. I haven't figured out what I'm doing for a barrel vice yet.

I bought the Achimedes, which was also on sale. I was interested in the extraction design. Maybe it's just a gimmick, but it's fun to try new things.

Cool. Nice action!

I have heard the Viper Barrel Vise works pretty well for installing pre-fits. (Removing Remington or other factory barrels is another deal.) You should be able to pick one up for $60.00 or so. Building custom rifles is a slippery slope- it seems there is always something else to buy or upgrade!

 

[Codiekfx400]

If your looking for tight groups at short distance inside 300 yards with a fast twist barrel like a 1-7 the 55 vmax works excellent. No boat tail so it has a large bearing surface. Tiny groups.

 

[Shoots 700's]

77 grain Berger OTM’s would be a great fit for that barrel.

 

[Packfan]

What do you guys think about a 24 inch or 26 inch barrel? I will be going with a .223 Wylde chamber and targeting 69 to 80 grain bullets. I will be shooting mainly at 300 yards, but one of the ranges I shoot at goes out to 850.

 

[Codiekfx400]

24-26 inches is a perfect length for a bolt 223.

 

[valkson99]

Plus one for the Criterion 1:7 barrel. We use it every year on our annual trip to eastern Wyoming shooting prairie dogs. I installed it as a Remage build, dropped it into a MDT chassis and mounted a Vortex scope. Shooting Lapua 77 scenars over H-335, in Lapua cases it routinely shoots sub 1/4". To 500 it is super reliable but velocity is only around 2700 fps. When the wind picks up or the distances extend past 500 we switch to 6mm rifles. Don't want to see draggers at any distance.

 

[valkson99]

And the barrel is the "Remington Match" chamber also.

 

[GrumpyOleFart]

600 is by no means unobtainable for .223.
Lots of options for reloading.
Spend money on decent glass and rings.
You will never regret good optics.
All the best.

 

[Txshooter3]

600 is by no means unobtainable for .223.

Correct indeed. I shoot F Class TR at 600 with a .223.

 

[Campguy308]

And the barrel is the "Remington Match" chamber also.

Isnt the neck diameter tighter on that chamber? I have a 223 700 action sitting around and am thinking of screwing on a criterion remage.

 

[fdkay]

I know there's already some threads on this but I'm suffering from information overload and I need a sanity check (or reality bitch-slap).

I'm new to custom action bolt guns. I have a CZ 527 in 223 that I adore. However, I want to build a custom bolt gun in 223 that lobs the 53 grain v-max bullets into prairie dogs at 600 yards. Maybe that range is unrealistic. I dunno. I've been tagging the little buggers at 350 yards fairly consistently with the 527.

I just snagged an ARC Archimedes during their sale. Now I need a barrel. I'm thinking a 26-inch 1:12 barrel in a heavy varmint or similar profile.

I was looking at a barrel from Patriot Valley Arms. They have two free bore choices: 062 and 100. Which should I choose?

I'm also new to reloading and just started experimenting with the 223 cartridge in the CZ 527. I know I'll need to work up a different load for the custom bolt gun, but I have lot to learn.

Does any of this sound stupid? Any advice?

If you call PVA and tell them what you're trying to do, they will give you the answer you seek.
Personally, I would lean towards something like a .224 Valk build to get more velocity, especially with the 53-55 grain bullets.

 

[Campguy308]

You are not going to be disappointed in a 1:7 twist, I shoot a Criterion 223 1:7 twist with their match chamber (long throat) it
shoots 60TMK, 69TMK, 77TMK, 69SMK, 70VLD, 75VLD and 80VLD into small little groups.
The only bullet I have tried in that barrel that it cant properly digest is the 75ELDM.

When this one dies I am going to get the exact same barrel.

How long is your barrel?

 

[huntnh]

Iv shot the 80 eldms out to 1000 quite a bit don’t underestimate the little 223. 24.4 of varget is money in my 26 1/7 twist

 

[whatsupdoc]

How long is your barrel?

26"

 

[Scrumbag]

I like my little CZ American but I wish it had a 24 or 26" barrel rather than 22".

The one thing above getting a longer barrel, you can always cut it shorter if it bothers you. It's more difficult to stick a bit extra on...

 

[Triple D]

Love the bolt 223’s. I’ve got 2 and my dad has one as well. We’re running the 1:8t, but have no issues with 40-80’s. With the 26” barrels and 75eld’s, we’ve had great success out to 1200yds. It gets dicey when it’s windy, and spotting a miss can be very challenging, but it’s a heck of a combo at 2975fps.

600yds isn’t pushing a 223 at all. Go with at least a 1:8 twist.