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New 22l trainer, past experiences and expectations

J

jimdvt

Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Feb 25, 2010
105
0
49
Vermont, USA
#1
I'm looking to build a 22 trainer and after some research it looks like the CZ 452 or Savage Mark II are the top contenders. My question is generally speaking how are these out of the box?

If possible I'd like to avoid purchasing a rifle that absolutely needed replacement triggers, new barrels, bedding jobs, etc. to get it to shoot to a reasonable level. All of my recent projects have been down that path and for once I'd like to buy something that just works.

What's my reasonable level of accuracy? I would consider at or just under MOA accuracy with match ammo at 50 yards reasonable for my use. Is that expectation too much for these two stock rifles. I have a 10/22 that I got there, but only after swapping everything but the action and bolt.

I plan to shoot out to 200 yards so knowing that misses are attributable my errors and wind reading and not the rifle is my primary concern.
 
#2
Re: New 22l trainer, past experiences and expectations

I have the savage mark2 tr and with wolf match target it will do under an inch at 100 all day, and hard boiled eggs at 200 are no problem. With the stock accutrigger you can adjust down to 2.5# and in ten minutes clipping some coils you can have it at 1#. If i were you i would get the mark 2 trr sr.
 
#3
Re: New 22l trainer, past experiences and expectations

out of the box both will do well, and with good match ammo should give you the moa at 50yds that you are looking for without alot of (or any) modifications.

i believe the CZ is a step above the mkii, not only in looks but accuraccy too. either of the 2 shoot consistantly enough for 200 yard use - again with ammo your particular rifle likes.

of course any upgraded triggers, stocks, bedding, etc will help performance, but again out of the box either will do well.

i'll suggest to get a heavy barreled rifle in either as the heavy barrel or varmint models tend to be a bit more accurate than the sporter barreled models. for target use, the heavier weighted rifle shouldn't be an issue.
 
#4
Re: New 22l trainer, past experiences and expectations

Jim,

Either of these are going to perform as long as you feed them decent ammo. I'm more of a CZ guy myself (on my second one now), but will admit that the Savage MkII series are incredible rifles.

The one downfall that I see with the CZ rifles is that there is no bull-barrel option. Yes they have the heavy tapered barrel in the Varmit, but it's still not a bull. Savage on the other hand... well they have a few bull-barrel'd models to choose from.

So ultimately, it should just come down to your personal choice. Head on down to your local gun shopp and hold them both. Which one feels better to you? Because performance wise I don't think that you are going to be able to tell much more of a difference between the two.
 
#5
Re: New 22l trainer, past experiences and expectations

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: stinkysix</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have the savage mark2 tr and with wolf match target it will do under an inch at 100 all day, and hard boiled eggs at 200 are no problem. With the stock accutrigger you can adjust down to 2.5# and in ten minutes clipping some coils you can have it at 1#. If i were you i would get the mark 2 trr sr. </div></div>

I have heard these rumors around here quite a bit and I have never seen it backed up with actual hard evidence. Not bustin your chops yet but there are many posts on this section that will cast some serious doubt on your claim. All day is a long time.

It depends on your means and what you intend to do with the rifle. I have seen quite a few folks over the course of the last year buy numerous 22 rifles in any number of brands. I have seen several of those rather disapointed in what they bought. What I call excellent and what you call excellent can be worlds apart. I would not buy a rimfire Savage simply on the merit of what I have personally seen. If you want an out of the box rifle with the best accuracy that can be had at its price point check out the CZ453. It comes with an excellent adjustable set trigger.
 
#6
Re: New 22l trainer, past experiences and expectations

I'd like to have an Anschutz someday but I have the American mentality that paying that much for "only" a 22lr is crazy. I don't have a budget per say, but I was figuring in the ballpark of $750 with optic. If I did competitions it would be easier to justify the additional price, but this is for my own messing around. Plus the anny is too nice to be down on the ground shooting off a bipod. I have an aversion to nice wood, it just means it would sit in the safe.

I'm leaning towards the Savage MarkII TR. The pistol grip stock is similar to the HS Precision stock on my 308 and the bolt handle is similar to my 110BA, so that's two points pushing me in that direction.

Thanks for all the input so far. It sounds like either direction I go I'll have a good chance of it working out of the box. But knowing myself there will eventually be modifications in line.
 
#7
Re: New 22l trainer, past experiences and expectations

the CZ varmint, with a rifle basixs trigger!
I have one, hard to beat for the $

but, if you want a one hole 5 shoot group @ 50yrds.
get a Annie or Kimber SVT.

If you can find a SVT, thats the way I would go. 16" bull Bbl adj. trigger.
shoots one hole groups @ 50yrds. and does as well as my 24" Bbl. MATCH 64 Annie @ 100yrds.

LOBO 151
 
#8
Re: New 22l trainer, past experiences and expectations

For "just messing around", it's hard to beat a Mark II TR. You can add a DIP or EGW rail, Mueller APT scope, Harris bipod, and a decent set of rings, and still stay in your budget.
 
#9
Re: New 22l trainer, past experiences and expectations

I'll echo armorp8chikn on the CZ453 for all around out of the box accuracy and a good trigger.

But, you specifically said you wanted a trainer. What is your main rifle?

If you are really using it for training, I suggest having your rimfire set up as similar as possible to your centerfire. Similar stock feel, similar trigger pull, similar optics style (reticle, mil/mil, mil/moa, etc...).

With that said, I highly suspect that you will get a bigger "kick" out of shooting your rimfire than you think and you'll be stuck with us savages (no pun intended) here in this step-child forum!

Oh, and stinkysix; welcome to Snipershide! Please don't EVER say "all day" again!
 
#10
Re: New 22l trainer, past experiences and expectations

I have a stock R700 barreled action with a Jewell trigger and HS Precision stock. I'm moving most my scopes over to mil/mil so no concerns there. I really want to keep the trigger consistent, so if I go CZ I would probably stick with the 452. I would really prefer to go with CZ but the stock on the TR is already close to what I have minus LOP and comb adjustability. How's the stock aftermarket for the CZ varmint.
 
#12
Re: New 22l trainer, past experiences and expectations

I think the 452 with the Boyds will be worth a little extra money over the Savage.

Now on to the scope. I like variables so was considering the Millet TRS-1 or Falcon 4-14. Maybe a fixed 16x super sniper. Downside is the SS is moa, Millett is second focal, and Falcon is extra coin. At least we have choices!
 
#13
Re: New 22l trainer, past experiences and expectations

Sounds like a good start for you. I personally run a SS16X on my trainer. The MOA knobs do not hinder me in any way. The more inportant thing for me on a trainer is the reticle. I use it for hold overs and windage. The only downside to the SWS16 is that you are stuck with quite a lot of magnification. It can make it difficult at times for target aquisition, the upside is you can see the holes at 100+.

If you are moving scopes on other rifles to Mil/Mil, maybe make the move and transer one of your existing scopes to the .22?

My trainer... although now it almost seems that the .308 is the trainer now!
2723164006_large.jpg

 
#14
Re: New 22l trainer, past experiences and expectations

It seems you already made your mind up on the rifle so I won't go into that too much but, either the Savage or the CZ are good choices. For those that feel one is more accurate than the other, I say both have excellent results and both can have crap results. Either one should achieve or come very close to the moa you're looking for with the proper ammo. Personally I wouldn't buy the CZ because it will cost you more money and you have to fool around with buying another stock and changing it. I'd take that money and buy good optics for a Savage.

I have a Vortex Viper on my TR and love the combo. Only problem is 2nd focal and moa adjustments. For the money, just a fantastic scope. I had a muller APT but sold it, didn't like it at all.
 
#15
Re: New 22l trainer, past experiences and expectations

I'm waffling back and forth, but with the Boyds being on backorder I think that pushed me to the Savage. As far as the scope I only have two tactical rifles; the 308 is currently wearing a Leupold Mk4 3.5-10 and the 338 is awaiting the new SS 5-20. If the SS is all it's cracked up to be I'll order another to replace the Mk4 but until then it's being used, and I think I'd rather sell the Mk4 than stick it on a 22.
 
#16
Re: New 22l trainer, past experiences and expectations

I realize your primary purpose for purchasing a rimfire is as trainer that you want to set up similar to your current "big boy" rifle. Both rifles are good quality, but if possible take a look at both Savage and CZ in person. I recently went through this same debate and I am extremely pleased that I went the CZ route. You can read about it here.

Also, if you want to keep your trigger pull similar between your trainer and "big boy" rifle would you honestly keep the Accu-trigger on your trainer if you don't have one on your full sized rifle? I'd personally put trigger pull ahead of stock looks/ergonomics. Just something to consider, hope that helps.
 
#17
Re: New 22l trainer, past experiences and expectations

Have the CZ on order. The trigger and the easy Yodave upgrade are my main reasons. If I even want to upgrade the stock I can, but it's not a necessity. Thanks for all the input.
 
#22
Re: New 22l trainer, past experiences and expectations

I have both the EGW 20MOA (Savage MkII BTV) and the DIP 25MOA (Savage MkII TR). Both work fine for me. Honestly, I'd just pick up the one that's in stock from your vendor.
 
#24
Re: New 22l trainer, past experiences and expectations

Great review Top Predator. Think I'll go with the DIP; more moa, better chamber access, and less expensive. Plus the EGW looks like it adds a ton of height to allow for the chamber cut out.
 
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