New action: Terminus Zeus or Lone Peak Fuzion?

[avastcosmicarena]

I know this is an apples to oranges comparison, because of 3-lug vs 2-lug and 60 degree vs 90 degree, but I am having trouble making a decision. I'm planning a build and have narrowed the action choice down to one of these two now after tons and tons of researching.

Have any of you ever had the chance to directly compare these against each other? Or maybe compare the Fuzion with the Curtis Vector?

It's my understanding that the Lone Peak Fuzion will have a longer throw but will feel smoother overall and have lighter bolt lift. Is that about right?

Just looking for anecdotal feedback from anyone who has been able to try both.

 

[DisplacedTexan]

Yes the Lone Peak will have a smoother throw, but longer and probably won't work as well/easily with AW mags as the Terminus.

My first semi custom was a Tikka (70°), my second a GA Tempest (60°) and so the Terminus was an easy question for me once I heard about them (because Curtis has had customer service problems I had no intent of dealing with).

I have a personal requirement for 60° throw and flawless AW mag feeding, but that doesn't mean other actions are less than, just different.

 

[CStroud]

Can’t comment on the Terminus line, but I have felt and shot some different Curtis, and if the Terminus is similar I’d definitely go with the Lone Peak. No comparison in bolt lift and smoothness in my book.

 

[littlepod]

I bought the Terminus, mainly because I wanted the quick change barrel. I've never ran a Lone Peak, but comparing it to a 90 degree Defiance Deviant, I didn't feel the 90 degree Defiance lift that much easier. When I first got the Terminus it was a heavy lift, but after breaking it in, it's rather enjoyable.

If they made a Lone Peak with a quick change barrel system I might've gone with that. I don't mind the 60 vs 90, have no issues running other 90 degree actions.

 

[Matt_3479]

I also run a terminus Zeus and while at first the bolt lift was a little heavy, after broken it it’s a pleasure! Super smooth, very very fast, the barrel change is awesome!

 

[avastcosmicarena]

Yes the Lone Peak will have a smoother throw, but longer and probably won't work as well/easily with AW mags as the Terminus.

My first semi custom was a Tikka (70°), my second a GA Tempest (60°) and so the Terminus was an easy question for me once I heard about them (because Curtis has had customer service problems I had no intent of dealing with).

I have a personal requirement for 60° throw and flawless AW mag feeding, but that doesn't mean other actions are less than, just different.

Are you just using these mags? https://www.area419.com/product/aimags/

Did they require tuning?

 

[avastcosmicarena]

I also run a terminus Zeus and while at first the bolt lift was a little heavy, after broken it it’s a pleasure! Super smooth, very very fast, the barrel change is awesome!

The quick barrel change is actually something I'm really interested in. I also like that the Zeus uses threaded trigger pins. I've been leaning towards the Zeus for a long while, but just recently started hearing about and reading up on the Fuzion and started second guessing myself.

 

[avastcosmicarena]

Are people just using AI AW Mags with the Zeus for feeding 6 Dasher and 6 BR?

Does it require something like this? https://patriotvalleyarms.com/6mm-br-6mm-dasher-mag-kit/

 

[DisplacedTexan]

Are you just using these mags? https://www.area419.com/product/aimags/

Did they require tuning?

Those are not it.

These are https://www.shortactionprecision.com/collections/mags-metal/products/aics-aw-10-round-magazine-308

All AW need a little filing on the mag catch of the bottom metal (best to alter the stocks mag catch to achieve the proper seating depth rather than the lip on the mag itself).

 

[DisplacedTexan]

Are people just using AI AW Mags with the Zeus for feeding 6 Dasher and 6 BR?

Does it require something like this? https://patriotvalleyarms.com/6mm-br-6mm-dasher-mag-kit/

Yes, most are using this. https://hrd-gear.com/shop?olsPage=products/hrd-gear-6mm-magazine-spacer-kit

My 22BR feeds in my Zeus with no problems.

 

[BoulderE89]

While I hear great things about the terminus and it has some very innovative features in it, when I had this dilemma a few months ago I went with the fuzion action. For me 90 degree isn’t a big deal, but I was interested in the smoothest action and a light lift. I was blown away when I got mine. I sat there trying to force it to bind while closing the bolt and literally couldn’t. It’s very smooth and I love the light lift on it. No regrets since it checks of all my boxes. For what it’s worth I know traditionally 2 lug actions don’t go well with AW mags but Mike from lone peak runs AW mags and told me it’s been consistent

 

[Dthomas3523]

FWIW, my lone peak runs aw mags better than either my Curtis or terminus did.

 

[Matt_3479]

The quick barrel change is actually something I'm really interested in. I also like that the Zeus uses threaded trigger pins. I've been leaning towards the Zeus for a long while, but just recently started hearing about and reading up on the Fuzion and started second guessing myself.

I don’t know why more people don’t run the threaded trigger pins. A trigger swap takes 1 Allen key and 1.5 mins, where without you need a block, or vise, hammer, punch, and 5 mins. Works fantastic.Not to mention Joel is amazing to deal with!!

the quick barrel change seems to be a breeze. I broke my barrel in, pulled it off to clean (just testing it) spun it back on and same point of impact. Then while doing load development I had a bullet jammed too far and quaders drive between me and target so I pull bolt back and sure as shit spilt all the powder in the chamber and pulled barrel back off for ease of cleaning and same poi!!

I’d say it’s not quite as smooth as my kelbly but that one also has 600 rounds through it plus another 500+ dryfires, and it’s not a 60 degree, but the terminus isn’t far off. Different feel but good!

 

[Hugh_Jassol]

I'm running AW mags with the HRD kit in my Lone Peak, feeds dasher slick af

 

[Sogan]

I bought the Terminus, mainly because I wanted the quick change barrel. I've never ran a Lone Peak, but comparing it to a 90 degree Defiance Deviant, I didn't feel the 90 degree Defiance lift that much easier. When I first got the Terminus it was a heavy lift, but after breaking it in, it's rather enjoyable.

If they made a Lone Peak with a quick change barrel system I might've gone with that. I don't mind the 60 vs 90, have no issues running other 90 degree actions.

Have you been using the quick change barrel for awhile? Will I get consistent headspacing with QD just like with torque on? I think that's all inside the barrel and wouldn't really change with both methods of putting a barrel on right? Moreless mean for if the shoulder readings on fired brass comes up always the same to bump them back .002 etc.

Any big zero shift between putting the barrel on and off?

 

[littlepod]

No poi shift that I've detected. Headspace is consistent with hand tight torque. Literally just tighten by hand until the shoulder hits. The set screws are also hand tight.

I'll need to do more tests.

If you want to torque it on normally, you would buy a different headspaced barrel because the 70 ft/lbs of torque moves the barrel .002 closer.

 

[Sogan]

No poi shift that I've detected. Headspace is consistent with hand tight torque. Literally just tighten by hand until the shoulder hits. The set screws are also hand tight.

I'll need to do more tests.

If you want to torque it on normally, you would buy a different headspaced barrel because the 70 ft/lbs of torque moves the barrel .002 closer.

I’d imagine that torquing on a hand tight is probably not recommended then? Is the .002 the OAL of the round getting shorter or what’s getting less exactly?

 

[spife7980]

It’s recommended when it’s cut for hand tight.

And yeah it would because the entire chamber moves back .002. It’s the barrel threads compressing a bit. You cant bend metal by hand, with a wrench and vice you can.

 

[Sogan]

It’s recommended when it’s cut for hand tight.

And yeah it would because the entire chamber moves back .002. It’s the barrel threads compressing a bit. You can bend metal by hand, with a wrench and vice you can.

I’m assuming you meant to say “not recommended when it’s cut for hand tight” right?

 

[spife7980]

I’m assuming you meant to say “not recommended when it’s cut for hand tight” right?

No. So far everyone has written exactly what they mean.

 

[Sogan]

No. So far everyone has written exactly what they mean.

You can bend metal by hand, with a wrench and vice you can.

What metal are you bending by hand with then?

 

[spife7980]

What metal are you bending by hand with then?

FUCK! You got me there on that one autocorrect typo, that crow tastes nice.

https://www.terminusactions.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/Zeus-QCTennon.pdf

 

[OyVey]

FWIW, my lone peak runs aw mags better than either my Curtis or terminus did.

On the same boat as op, trying to decide between lone peak vs zeus. I have a hard requirement for aw mags and I do not look forward to having to tune feed lips and things like that. Can you answer a few questions about your lone peak?

1) What chassis/ caliber for your lone peak?
2) Where did you get your aw mags? Did it require any tuning of mags or modifications to the chassis?
3) Do you prefer the lone peak or zeus for PRS?

 

[Sgeorge]

I have a Zeus and the bolt lift is as light as any 2 lug I’ve played with

 

[avastcosmicarena]

On the same boat as op, trying to decide between lone peak vs zeus. I have a hard requirement for aw mags and I do not look forward to having to tune feed lips and things like that. Can you answer a few questions about your lone peak?

1) What chassis/ caliber for your lone peak?
2) Where did you get your aw mags? Did it require any tuning of mags or modifications to the chassis?
3) Do you prefer the lone peak or zeus for PRS?

From the previous posts I've read by him, I don't think he likes any 3-lug actions.

 

[avastcosmicarena]

I have a Zeus and the bolt lift is as light as any 2 lug I’ve played with

Which have you tried?

 

[avastcosmicarena]

Not a huge thing, but I do think Terminus using DLC is better than Lone Peak using black nitride.

Another pro would be that there seems to be much more prefits available for the Zeus/Vector. So, finding barrels should be easier.

I am really curious about the Lone Peak Fuzion still though.

 

[littlepod]

I measured a Defiance Deviant, and the bolt lift was 5.5 lbs. My Zeus is 8.5 lbs. So not that big of a difference.

I love the quick change barrel... Switch between 308 6.5 and 6GT now.

 

[Dthomas3523]

Pre-fits are one of the biggest marketing schemes I’ve ever seen.

It’s not a big deal once you’re chosen smith has the measurements for your action. After that, they are all “pre fit.”

 

[Covertnoob5]

My buddy has a Fuzion that I’ve shot quite a bit and I’ve got a Vector. He ran my AW mags without issue and they required no tweaking (ACC chassis). He now has his own and also required no tweaking. However, AW mag tweaks are going to be chassis/bottom metal specific. So don’t think just because you get a Fuzion the AWs will feed perfect from every single stock/chassis combo. Tuning isn’t a huge deal tho. And not difficult, just tedious.

In regards to the Zues/Vector QD barrel change system and poi shift etc. I did a quick test in my YouTube video review. Since then I’m about 6 barrels deep and it still holds consistent.

bolt lift is going to be lighter on the Fuzion. Even if it’s not a lot, it’s just a product of 60vs90. That said I think the Fuzion is the best 90* action out there. As far as smoothness, I’d say it’s probably pretty close to equal. Anyone that’s ever run my action knows I don’t clean it, lube it, grease it, with any kind of regularity. And it’s still pretty smooth. Even after it’s been in the rain, mud, dust, etc. I just let it sit. Anyone that was at the dog valley and MDT match this year, I shot both those matches back to back and still haven’t cleaned my gun. For those that weren’t there, it was raining so hard guys were driving from one stage to the next.

 

[kthomas]

Like Dthomas says, the pre-fit thing shouldn't be as big of a deal as some make it out to be. Your gunsmith only needs your action once and they can save the measurements, and can essentially make you a "pre-fit" any time after that first time. WIth on the shelf pre-fits, you are stuck with the lengths, contours, and chambers that a supplier has on stock. I generally prefer reamers designed for the projectile I'm using over geeneral SAAMI spec reamers, or using my own reamers. Not deal breakers, but something to think about.

The quick change barrel thing always gets me. Every barrel is a quick change barrel. A barrel that is torqued and shouldered isn't difficult to change out. You just need minimal tools and ~5 min of time. If you want to get even lazier, you can have flats machined into your shouldered barrel if you want to make a simple process even simpler. Torqued and shouldered barrels will have less reliability issues, most "quick change" barrel setups are generally not as reliable if they get knocked around, and relying on a grub screw to tension your barrel is just another potential source of failure in your rifle system. Lastly, doing the "switch barrel" thing gets old quickly, most people find the novelty wears off quickly and ends up with a dedicated rifle for each cartridge anyways. Even the sponsored shooters of "quick change, switch barrel capable" actions have dedicated rifles for each cartridge, so what a glowing endorsement of that feature....

In regards to the specific actions at task, I've never handled a Terminus, so I can't speak for that action. The Lone Peak Fuzion is a really nice push feed action, probably my favorite. Light bolt lift, lighter bolt close, very reliable in adverse conditions. It does everything that you would want a push feed action to do, and it puts a smile on my face every time I cycle it. I'm not a 60* bolt throw fan, but if you are, Terminus seems like one of the better options currently available.

 

[OyVey]

Like Dthomas says, the pre-fit thing shouldn't be as big of a deal as some make it out to be. Your gunsmith only needs your action once and they can save the measurements, and can essentially make you a "pre-fit" any time after that first time. WIth on the shelf pre-fits, you are stuck with the lengths, contours, and chambers that a supplier has on stock. I generally prefer reamers designed for the projectile I'm using over geeneral SAAMI spec reamers, or using my own reamers. Not deal breakers, but something to think about.

The quick change barrel thing always gets me. Every barrel is a quick change barrel. A barrel that is torqued and shouldered isn't difficult to change out. You just need minimal tools and ~5 min of time. If you want to get even lazier, you can have flats machined into your shouldered barrel if you want to make a simple process even simpler. Torqued and shouldered barrels will have less reliability issues, most "quick change" barrel setups are generally not as reliable if they get knocked around, and relying on a grub screw to tension your barrel is just another potential source of failure in your rifle system. Lastly, doing the "switch barrel" thing gets old quickly, most people find the novelty wears off quickly and ends up with a dedicated rifle for each cartridge anyways. Even the sponsored shooters of "quick change, switch barrel capable" actions have dedicated rifles for each cartridge, so what a glowing endorsement of that feature....

In regards to the specific actions at task, I've never handled a Terminus, so I can't speak for that action. The Lone Peak Fuzion is a really nice push feed action, probably my favorite. Light bolt lift, lighter bolt close, very reliable in adverse conditions. It does everything that you would want a push feed action to do, and it puts a smile on my face every time I cycle it. I'm not a 60* bolt throw fan, but if you are, Terminus seems like one of the better options currently available.

Thank you Thomases and Covertnoob for your inputs. I agree with the quick change feature not being that big of a selling point. There's no worry for me to go home and use a barrel vise to switch the barrel because I don't plan on switching between barrels at the range. If anything, the quick change is a weak point in the system and I'd rather stick to shouldered barrels.

From what I gather, the lone peak shouldn't have problems running aw mags even though it is a 2 lug. The bigger problem is the chassis/bottom metal interface with the magazine and that requires some tuning. I can live with that.

Can you guys touch on the nitrided vs DLC in terms of durability and robustness? In a dusty PRS environment, lone peak has been shown to perform but how does the vector/zeus hold up? After 2 years of running the action hard and maybe 100,000 cycles, which one would see more wear and tear? I heard DLC coating chipping away and things like that because it is more of a surface-coating rather than treating the steel like nitriding. Is this true? I know nothing about material science but I want to hear it from you guys who have run both DLC and nitrided actions. Do you guys have a preference?

 

[RTH1800]

My Ti Lone Peak Fuzion is one of the finest actions I have ever used. Feeds great from AI mags. Wish more of my builds were on that action.

 

[littlepod]

I agree with the quick change feature not being that big of a selling point. There's no worry for me to go home and use a barrel vise to switch the barrel because I don't plan on switching between barrels at the range. If anything, the quick change is a weak point in the system and I'd rather stick to shouldered barrels.

You can still full torque a normal full torque barrel if you don't want to use the quick-change. So you have the option either way.

I actually change my barrels at the range. I changed it during a 4-day training in Alaska as well. It was very convenient.

 

[kthomas]

Thank you Thomases and Covertnoob for your inputs. I agree with the quick change feature not being that big of a selling point. There's no worry for me to go home and use a barrel vise to switch the barrel because I don't plan on switching between barrels at the range. If anything, the quick change is a weak point in the system and I'd rather stick to shouldered barrels.

From what I gather, the lone peak shouldn't have problems running aw mags even though it is a 2 lug. The bigger problem is the chassis/bottom metal interface with the magazine and that requires some tuning. I can live with that.

Can you guys touch on the nitrided vs DLC in terms of durability and robustness? In a dusty PRS environment, lone peak has been shown to perform but how does the vector/zeus hold up? After 2 years of running the action hard and maybe 100,000 cycles, which one would see more wear and tear? I heard DLC coating chipping away and things like that because it is more of a surface-coating rather than treating the steel like nitriding. Is this true? I know nothing about material science but I want to hear it from you guys who have run both DLC and nitrided actions. Do you guys have a preference?

I have actions in DLC (mausingfield and defiance deviant) as well as nitride (LP Fuzion). Cosmetically the DLC has more shine or "luster" to it, while nitride is more flat. Functionally, I believe DLC has more lubricity to it, but running either actions with some lubrication (as you should), there's no real difference that I can notice. DLC only chips if it was applied improperly. I can't say I have a preference over DLC or nitride.

 

[avastcosmicarena]

The DLC vs nitride likely isn't a big deal in practice either way, but DLC is a more expensive coating. It's harder, and I believe it has a better friction coefficient (more slick).

I think there may be a bit of a traditionalist mentality from the anti-quick-change people. Most people who have had them seem to like them and have had good reports about them maintaining POI. Even if it's only a little more convenient, it's still more convenient.

 

[kthomas]

The DLC vs nitride likely isn't a big deal in practice either way, but DLC is a more expensive coating. It's harder, and I believe it has a better friction coefficient (more slick).

I think there may be a bit of a traditionalist mentality from the anti-quick-change people. Most people who have had them seem to like them and have had good reports about them maintaining POI. Even if it's only a little more convenient, it's still more convenient.

As an engineer, I always appreciate a more simple and elegant solution over a more complicated design. You are inviting more potential problems with a more complicated design. While these problems may or may not manifest for YOU, the likelyhood of failure is always going to be higher with the more complicated design. Perhaps that puts me in the "traditionalist" box.

I can appreciate why some may want the "quick change" design, but I think it's good to know the trade-offs you are making when you make that choice.

 

[jdemp1]

Very interesting thread was considering a Terminus, but will ck Fusion now also. Curious if there is any stats on actual testing of the receiver coatings as would like to see the data
Semper Fi

 

[Dthomas3523]

Anyone worried about dlc vs nitride is overthinking it and concerned with something trivial.

 

[ThePretzel]

I've had nitrided actions (Impact Precision and Nucleus) and my current action is a DLC Mausingfield. If I'm being entirely honest the only perceivable difference between the three actions could be easily attributed to round count/dryfire cycles.

When I sold the Nucleus, it was smoother than the brand-new Impact I bought afterwards. When I sold the Impact, it was just as smooth as the Nucleus ever was. I bought the Mausingfield already well-used for years, and it feels a bit smoother than my Nucleus or Impact ever did. I've also played with some Lone Peak and Impact actions that felt smoother than my current Mausingfield, because they had more use.

Both DLC and nitriding are equally good methods of reducing friction. If you think you'll notice the difference between one vs the other, you're mistaken. Manufacturers choose one or the other based on their initial raw material and the specifics of their manufacturing process. Nitriding means case hardening after you've finished the machining, whereas DLC doesn't affect the material properties of the metal but requires tolerances for the thickness of the coating. It's simply a matter of coating vs heat treatment, because the final hardness of each surface is usually in the 1,000-1,500 HV range for either process. DLC technically has the capability of going up to 9,000 HV, but realistically nobody uses the necessary ta-C DLC on firearms because it's overkill.

 

[jdemp1]

search for knowledge is trival..............ahhhhh......... ok wtf simple question
thanks ThePretzel for the input

 

[Dthomas3523]

search for knowledge is trival..............ahhhhh......... ok wtf simple question
thanks ThePretzel for the input

It is when you’re looking into trivial things.

 

[bodhisafa]

Reviving this thread.
For those that said the fuzion ran the aw mags better than the Terminus ….was this related more to the magazine height / set up?

 

[TEUFEL820]

I too was on the fence. I was looking into the 737, Fusion and the Zeus. I ended up with Terminus. It checked all the features I wanted. Not saying the other ones I considered are bad. I really like the 60 degree vs 90. I tried the 737. Great action just not my taste.

 

[bodhisafa]

I have a Hawkins bottom metal with the long action mag catch to run the AW magazines (6x47 Lapua chamber) and I am wondering which of the two action will run this combo the best.

 

[HousePlant]

The answer is one of each.

 

[Hoser]

Before I got my Terminus I was using Bighorn/Zermatt, Surgeon and Stiller.

Much happier with my Terminus and Accuracy International.

 

[S3th]

I have ran Curtis, Lone Peak, and Defiance. All have been sold. My Zeus arrives tomorrow

 

[bodhisafa]

I have ran Curtis, Lone Peak, and Defiance. All have been sold. My Zeus arrives tomorrow

What did you not like about the Lone Peak fuzion?

 

[S3th]

What did you not like about the Lone Peak fuzion?

The condition it arrived in, customer service, and 90 degree throw.