New guy here!! and Rifle question.

[Javo]

Hey guys long time lurker here, finally decided to join in.

Im from San Juan P.R. and been a avid shooter for 2-3 years now. Great site hope to learn a lot from you guys.

Now the question: I asked this over at AR15.com and got some responses from whom i believe are some member here too.
Im in the hunt for a .308 bolt gun for shooting FT-R at my local club and today i was made quite an offer. Basically i was offered 4 different rifles today:

A Winchester M70 Stealth II 26" H

A Savage M10 Presicion Carbine 20" accustock

A Reminton 700P Special 18"

And another Remmington 700P 26" H

All in .308. Im leaning heavily towards the R700P in 26" since this will be a target gun not a field rifle i would be using for some kind of duty. But still the gun is bone stock, and the only extras are some cheap 1" rings he is throwing in.

Now, what are the most essencial mods or upgrades you would make to this gun prior of hitting the range?

Should i look for a trigger or work with the stock one?

Also bullet weights, at the moment im not into reloading so the gun will be fed commercial ammo for a while. I got my .223 weight/twists down but im in indian territory when it comes to .308 twists and weights. I understand the gun has a 1:12 twist rate.

I will accept all input as im still in the desicion making stage and all offers are still up.

Thanks in advance!!

J

 

[Javo]

Re: New guy here!! and Rifle question.

Anyone?

Thanks guys!!

J

 

[remau308]

Re: New guy here!! and Rifle question.

I have a stock 700P with 26" 1:12 twist barrel. It shoots a .375" group at 100 yards all day with match ammo. However, it does have a 40-X trigger installed, so I didn't have to replace the trigger. I would leave it stock for now unless you just absolutely hate the way it looks. The stock is fully aluminum bedded, so you don't have to worry about rigidity. Basically, I would trash those 1" rings, spend about $600-1000 for an alright scope, or above $1400 if the price is no issue. DO NOT SKIMP ON RINGS AND THE BASE! Last advice, never shoot anything other than precise handloads, or match ammo, and you will be good to go.

 

[oneeyedmac]

Re: New guy here!! and Rifle question.

The 700 will offer you a lot of options in teh aftermarket but the Savage isn't a wrong answer either. Try to shoot either of the 700's to make sure you aren't buying a dog that someone is trying to dump. If the sellers are shooting FT/R and selling be suspicious. Competitors aren't fond of selling rifles that shoot extremely well.

As stated the 700P is in an HS Precision stock with an aluminum bedding block but it still may benefit from glass bedding. After that develop a load and shoot it a lot. If it has the old style trigger with the serrated shoe you should be able to have a smith do a trigger job on it or there are many, many aftermarket triggers. Once you get better than the rifle send it to a custom rifle builder to have "the works" done to it.

Don't skimp on your optics.

 

[Javo]

Re: New guy here!! and Rifle question.

Well he is actually selling to finance a Nightforce buy for his other R700P. I do not know the round count but i'll get that info before the deal is finalized. He is selling it for $700.

Is there any way, some telltale sign, without using a borescope to tell if the gun have seen a lot of shooting?

I know the guy selling the Savage M10 and that one haven't seen much use, but the R700P, i have no idea.

The third offer was a R700P but with a 18" barrel. This guy is throwing in a Bushnell sight (cheap for free), rings, one-piece base, bipod for $600

Now question: How bad is a re-barrel on R700P (work wise)?.
How much $$ would be involved should i decide to swap the barrel with an aftermarket piece if i go with the 18" gun.?

Suggestions welcome!!

Thanks

J

 

[remau308]

Re: New guy here!! and Rifle question.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: javo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Well he is actually selling to finance a Nightforce buy for his other R700P. I do not know the round count but i'll get that info before the deal is finalized. He is selling it for $700.

Is there any way, some telltale sign, without using a borescope to tell if the gun have seen a lot of shooting?

I know the guy selling the Savage M10 and that one haven't seen much use, but the R700P, i have no idea.

The third offer was a R700P but with a 18" barrel. This guy is throwing in a Bushnell sight (cheap for free), rings, one-piece base, bipod for $600

Now question: How bad is a re-barrel on R700P (work wise)?.
How much $$ would be involved should i decide to swap the barrel with an aftermarket piece if i go with the 18" gun.?

Suggestions welcome!!

Thanks

J

</div></div>

This guy is selling the R700P barrels for dirt cheap, which I am about to buy one myself. So if you are worried about putting a new barrel on the gun don't worry because $700 is a great price for that rifle. I was lucky enough to buy mine from a woman at a guns show in Florida for $675

http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1909008

I would go for the 700P IMO.

 

[Javo]

Re: New guy here!! and Rifle question.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: remau308</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: javo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Well he is actually selling to finance a Nightforce buy for his other R700P. I do not know the round count but i'll get that info before the deal is finalized. He is selling it for $700.

Is there any way, some telltale sign, without using a borescope to tell if the gun have seen a lot of shooting?

I know the guy selling the Savage M10 and that one haven't seen much use, but the R700P, i have no idea.

The third offer was a R700P but with a 18" barrel. This guy is throwing in a Bushnell sight (cheap for free), rings, one-piece base, bipod for $600

Now question: How bad is a re-barrel on R700P (work wise)?.
How much $$ would be involved should i decide to swap the barrel with an aftermarket piece if i go with the 18" gun.?

Suggestions welcome!!

Thanks

J

</div></div>

This guy is selling the R700P barrels for dirt cheap, which I am about to buy one myself. So if you are worried about putting a new barrel on the gun don't worry because $700 is a great price for that rifle. I was lucky enough to buy mine from a woman at a guns show in Florida for $675

http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1909008

I would go for the 700P IMO. </div></div>

Yeah i know, especially the 18" one. At $600 with all the extras, while they are cheap, it's a straight up steal.
The reason im asking here is because i've learned the hard way to buy once, cry once and this is no different.
The only thing that holds me back is that 18" barrel. Since this rifle will most likely be shooting at 600+ yds regularly i want all the velocity i can get.
And the gun being no duty rifle, weight takes a backseat.

I've been trying to find comparisons between speeds out of 26" and 18" with commercial loads but most tests bottom out at 20"

Im still making up my mind!!!

Thanks guys

J

 

[mcimma]

Re: New guy here!! and Rifle question.

Go with the Remington 700p. Buy quality base rings and spend a little more than you intend to on a scope. It will be a shooter right away. Once you've shot it for a while, bring it to a gunsmith and have them bed it, tune the trigger and install an oversized bolt knob...Oh yeah, but a swivel bipod instead of a fixed one.

 

[WDL]

Re: New guy here!! and Rifle question.

QuickLoad will tell you the difference in velocity between 18" and 26" barrels for a given powder. And there is less difference for fast burning powders than slow burning powders

 

[skinnypitt]

Re: New guy here!! and Rifle question.

If you are going to shoot F-TR then you will need a 26" barrel. IMO
The 700P will get you started with a finely tuned load. And as someone else mentioned you will need as good Glass as you can afford. Unless this guy has put 6,000 rounds through this rifle i wouldnt worry about re-barreling. If he has put that many rounds through it i might rather get a new 700P instead of re-barrel. Ask him how long he has been competing F-class, remember he is shooting on average 60 rounds per match, plus practice and that can add up quick.

 

[Javo]

Re: New guy here!! and Rifle question.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CamoWildcat</div><div class="ubbcode-body">QuickLoad will tell you the difference in velocity between 18" and 26" barrels for a given powder. And there is less difference for fast burning powders than slow burning powders </div></div>

Is there any way of knowing what powder loadings are on "off the rack" ammo?

Thanks

J

 

[remau308]

Re: New guy here!! and Rifle question.

I don't reload, but I usually see people reloading 175 SMK's with anywhere from 42-44gr. of Varget.

 

[Dylan in AZ]

Re: New guy here!! and Rifle question.

Get trigger time behind each rifle and work the bolt on each as well if shooting them isn't an option. Which gun "feels" right to you? Just based off of my wants i'd go with the 26" bbl 700P but BE 100% SURE that it is an okay rifle. Second round pick would be the 18" 700P and don't worry about the barrel. Shoot it out and you'll realize a short barrel will do the trick as well. If you still aren't reloading by the time you get it rebarreled, then have your smith chamber it with a reamer meant for shooting your favorite ammo. FGMM is a great way to go by the way.

Best of luck,
-Dylan

 

[Javo]

Re: New guy here!! and Rifle question.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TerrorInTheShadows</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Get trigger time behind each rifle and work the bolt on each as well if shooting them isn't an option. Which gun "feels" right to you? Just based off of my wants i'd go with the 26" bbl 700P but BE 100% SURE that it is an okay rifle. Second round pick would be the 18" 700P and don't worry about the barrel. Shoot it out and you'll realize a short barrel will do the trick as well. If you still aren't reloading by the time you get it rebarreled, then have your smith chamber it with a reamer meant for shooting your favorite ammo. FGMM is a great way to go by the way.

Best of luck,
-Dylan </div></div>

Rock solid logic. I think the 18" is the clear option when you factor in it's 200 bucks less than the same action on a longer barrel that i will get rid off anyway.

Question: Do i have to perform an action true up with the barrel swap or is that done only at an action level?

Thanks guys

J

 

[z71rat]

Re: New guy here!! and Rifle question.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Question: Do i have to perform an action true up with the barrel swap or is that done only at an action level?</div></div>

My $0.02 worth would suggest going with the Savage 10PC. These are great rifles out of the box, and any mods you wish to do later on can be done by YOU!! There are several barrel manufacturers that make a pre-fit barrel for Savage... so you have lots of choices!!

DK

 

[Javo]

Re: New guy here!! and Rifle question.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: z71rat</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Question: Do i have to perform an action true up with the barrel swap or is that done only at an action level?</div></div>

My $0.02 worth would suggest going with the Savage 10PC. These are great rifles out of the box, and any mods you wish to do later on can be done by YOU!! There are several barrel manufacturers that make a pre-fit barrel for Savage... so you have lots of choices!!

DK </div></div>

By mods that can be done by me you mean what?

Also could you point out which manufacturers pre-fit the barrel to the action?

Anything still goes at this point.

J

 

[Dylan in AZ]

Re: New guy here!! and Rifle question.

An action will be trued to make it perfectly squared off and barrels that are perfectly squared will fit as they should when both are properly done. Honestly, I wouldn't even worry about having your action blueprinted until you get ready to have it re-barreled. Make sure you're used to the rifle and can shoot as well as it can now. Get as much trigger time as you can and make an informed decision when the time comes. If your confident in your abilities then I would say have it blueprinted, but again, wait till you need a new barrel.

 

[Dylan in AZ]

Re: New guy here!! and Rifle question.

"By mods that can be done by me you mean what?"

You can tune your own trigger and swap the barrels by yourself. No smith required. Savage is an awsome gun as well

 

[Javo]

Re: New guy here!! and Rifle question.

Swaping barrels myself is a pro. Can you point out barrel makes that offer barrels for Savages Model 10s?

Thanks

J

 

[AXEMAN]

Re: New guy here!! and Rifle question.

kreiger, walther-lothar, shilen, mcgowen and there are a few others. nice thing about the savage, when it comes time to get the action trued, you break it all down and send the action. less to insure and smaller package to ship. SSS did mine, but there are a few others that do savage work.

 

[DBrace]

Re: New guy here!! and Rifle question.

I have 2 Savages that I have put PacNor barrels on by myself in the living room. With a few $$$ in tools you are your own smith. It is fairly straight forward and if I can do it, you can do it. My PacNor .204 will shoot a 5 shot group at 100 yards into a hole less than a 1/4". Makes you feel good when you know that you screwed on that barrel and headspaced it yourseld.

+1 for the Savage. Lots of guys knock them and I don't know why because they are PROVEN shooters!!!!

 

[WDL]

Re: New guy here!! and Rifle question.

Amen on the Savages. My 12BVSS in 22-250 is my most accurate rifle.
Of course, I don't have that many rifles since I live in a motorhome.

 

[WDL]

Re: New guy here!! and Rifle question.

Someone a few posts back asked if you could find out what powder is in factory ammo. Unfortunately, that can only be found out in rare instances.

 

[Javo]

Re: New guy here!! and Rifle question.

My thoughts exactly.

J

 

[z71rat]

Re: New guy here!! and Rifle question.

What I love the most about Savage is... the looks on the guys faces with major fundage tied up in their "customs" and being outshot...

Enough said.

DK