Rifle Scopes New guy here with question about magnification

[Macgyver]

Hey guys I am just starting out in shooting mid to long range. I have a remmy 700 .308 varmint that I will be shooting in varmint shoots matches at the local range. Most of the guys in the class I will be shooting with have nightforces and other high end scopes with lots of magnification and big price tags. I want to compete with these guys but I don't have and never will have the funds to own the high end scopes. (took me 4 months of hiding bits of money from the wife to buy this rifle). ( now I am in the dog house for sending to much).

Anyways. The target is the size of a crow or ground hog depending on the match. The guys are grouping damn near hole for hole at 100 and 200 yards and real close to that at 300 yards. These are factory guns in this class only. It has been set in my head that I must have high magnification so I can be able to shoot hole for hole like these guys. I have a 6x24x50 field and stream scope that I bought for a .22 and have being using it on my 308 but the turrets don't always track when clicked but the scope does hold A zero. I want something better but get lost on what to get. I have been looking at the weaver T 36. From what I have been reading 36 is over and that 10 would be just fine. When I looked though my scope at 150 on 10x it was really hard to see the bullet holes but at 24 I could see the small print on the target.

What is your guys thoughts on my question. Do I need lots of magnification to keep tight groups out to 300 yards or not. I am shooting .75 right now and still working on loads to get it tighter.

 

[samnev]

Re: New guy here with question about magnification

Take a look at the Konus M30 6.5-24X50 scope at SWFA for $299.95. My brother has one on his SPS-V in 308. Excellent resolution and clarity and seems to track well and no problems holding zero. IMO 24X is more than enough for 300 yard shooting. You wil probably not use 24x. At that range I usually in the 20X range if mirage isn't a problem. There are also close out sales on the Bushnell 4200 Elite at Natchez but they may be out of your price point.

 

[maladat]

Re: New guy here with question about magnification

The Weaver T24 and T36 are very popular amongst smallbore and high power silhouette shooters as well as benchrest shooters at the ranges where I shoot.

The problem with a 24x or 36x fixed scope is that it is pretty useless for anything other than target competition or pretty long range because the field of view is so small. The T-24 has a 4.5ft field of view at 100 yards and the T-36 has a 3ft field of view at 100 yards.

For benchrest or "target shooting" the FOV is not a problem but in other types of shooting it can be a serious handicap.

 

[groovebus]

Re: New guy here with question about magnification

I also don't have the thousands of dollars to spend on rifles and optics. It seems alot of people on here have lots of money to blow, or they are single without kids. I bought a savage 10 FP-LE1 in .308 for $600 and put a Leapers Gen 5 6-14X50mm scope on it for less than $100. With a little effort and practice it hits pretty well out to 600 yards. I recently downgraded my magnification to a 4-16X40mm. Mostly because the longer scope looked stupid on a 20" barrel and I don't change it from 10x very often anyway. The one below had some really good features and costs less than $70. It a ghetto compared to a Leupold or Nightforce but marksmen have been doing alot more with less than that for decades. It's about the shooter and knowing your gear.

http://www.opticsplanet.net/leapers-utg-...riflescope.html

 

[varmint slayer]

Re: New guy here with question about magnification

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Macgyver</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hey guys I am just starting out in shooting mid to long range. I have a remmy 700 .308 varmint that I will be shooting in varmint shoots matches at the local range. Most of the guys in the class I will be shooting with have nightforces and other high end scopes with lots of magnification and big price tags. I want to compete with these guys but I don't have and never will have the funds to own the high end scopes. (took me 4 months of hiding bits of money from the wife to buy this rifle). ( now I am in the dog house for sending to much).

Anyways. The target is the size of a crow or ground hog depending on the match. The guys are grouping damn near hole for hole at 100 and 200 yards and real close to that at 300 yards. These are factory guns in this class only. It has been set in my head that I must have high magnification so I can be able to shoot hole for hole like these guys. I have a 6x24x50 field and stream scope that I bought for a .22 and have being using it on my 308 but the turrets don't always track when clicked but the scope does hold A zero. I want something better but get lost on what to get. I have been looking at the weaver T 36. From what I have been reading 36 is over and that 10 would be just fine. When I looked though my scope at 150 on 10x it was really hard to see the bullet holes but at 24 I could see the small print on the target.

What is your guys thoughts on my question. Do I need lots of magnification to keep tight groups out to 300 yards or not. I am shooting .75 right now and still working on loads to get it tighter. </div></div>

How much roughly are you willing to spend? That might help everybody throw some ideas your way.

 

[notquiteright]

Re: New guy here with question about magnification

I have found its not the magnification you use but the technique you employ.

Super high mag makes me twitchy and quite frankly it does so to alot of other folks as well. Many is the time having someone who is pinwheeling dial down to at least 10X and that really improves the group.

So a good technique is establishing a good point of aim you can lock down and repeat round after round.

I use my mildots and genII hashes. Underline the target with one. Rest one ontop of the target.

Sometimes in shooting a long string of fire splitting the long target, like your rodent, can have you drifting up and down a bit. Put that dot or hash on its head like a hat and it seems a bit more stable and repeatable.

But I aint quite right, might not work for you

 

[Macgyver]

Re: New guy here with question about magnification

Thanks guys so far. As for the question on how much I'm willing to spend. The answer to the question lies on the mood of my wife when I say "hey babe I am thinking of buying this thing on this website". The answer is always how much is it. Followed by I don't think so.

I can't penny pinch and trade stuff for other stuff so it just depends on the cost. I've been looking at arond 500. But I tell the wife 200. Both gun shops have a lay a way system that I use a lot so that is always an option.

Main question isn't about how much I can spend but more to magnification. I would like to be able to see my bullet holes up to 300 yards. This is for target only so the FOV really isn't a issue. The bulls eye is 1 inch so I need something I can keep online. The scope I have has fine cross hairs with a dot. I really like that set up I just want it to track better then what it does. That way when it's zeroed at 200 I can move x clicks up and know it's going to strike that point on the target and not "shit that should have moved 5 inches up not 1 inch, damn scope"

 

[notquiteright]

Re: New guy here with question about magnification

I see my bullet holes on white target paper with 10X, I see them in black paper with 30X at 300 yards.

But what matters a great deal is quality of glass. Clarity and ability to work through mirage is extremely helpful.

I have had good luck with Ziess, Trijicon, Nightforce, and leupold when the bullet hole is on a target that isnt very dark.

 

[Hummerdawg]

Re: New guy here with question about magnification

+1 On the Weaver T36 really a great economical choice for target shooting at known ranges with no time constraints.

 

[308garand]

Re: New guy here with question about magnification

Look into Vortex Optics Viper line. They have a 6.5-20x44. Should be able to get it around $400. Good product from a good company, and it comes with a lifetime warranty. You might also check the classifieds if you haven't already. You never know what you will find in there.

308

 

[sniperaviator]

Re: New guy here with question about magnification

You only NEED a 3x9. But you could use more. Get too much and you don't have much field of view, which means you can't find your target. On a budget, 3x9 will do. Try and get thin crosshairs.

 

[Macgyver]

Re: New guy here with question about magnification

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: notquiteright</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I see my bullet holes on white target paper with 10X, I see them in black paper with 30X at 300 yards.

But what matters a great deal is quality of glass. Clarity and ability to work through mirage is extremely helpful.

I have had good luck with Ziess, Trijicon, Nightforce, and leupold when the bullet hole is on a target that isnt very dark. </div></div>
Yeah that's something I've been looking at. With the Fixed 36 the mirage is going to play a big part being as the matches will take place June July and august. I think 20 or so fixed would be better. I read a lot about the SS and that the 20 power isn't as good as the 16 or 10. If I were just shooting carbines I would go with nothing more then a 10 power but groups of 4's in each target with 5 targets in 30 mins not sure 10 is going to cut it.

I've read a lot about the vortex but have yet to actually get to look though one. If I am going to spend 400 I want to at least look though the thing then be stuck with something I don't like.

 

[steve123]

Re: New guy here with question about magnification

Sightron are good scopes for the money.If I were looking to shoot tight groups on paper I'd think about getting one of these.


http://www.sightron.com/index.php?action=view_document&did=1201816362&cat_id=6&id=150

 

[TonyAngel]

Re: New guy here with question about magnification

For the money, I'd have to say Vortex Viper. I can't remember the mag range, but I think it tops out at 20X. I have a Nightforce NXS 5.5-22X50 on my .308, so I'm used to that. Not long ago, a friend of mine asked me to shoot his rifle for him. I didn't pay much attention to the scope, until I looked through it. I had to look up and check it out. It was very nice. Nice crisp glass with pretty good resolution. Not a Nightforce, but very nice at around 1/4 the price of a NF.

 

[Shortdraw]

Re: New guy here with question about magnification

The Vortex viper looks good for the money, or how about the T-24? I think FOV doesn't really matter for target shooting. I personally shoot better groups with higher magnification. My preference is minimum 14X for 100yds, and 25X out to 1000.

 

[Guest]

Re: New guy here with question about magnification

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Macgyver</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I can't penny pinch and trade stuff for other stuff so it just depends on the cost. I've been looking at arond 500. But I tell the wife 200. Both gun shops have a lay a way system that I use a lot so that is always an option. </div></div>

Lying to your wife never works. If her radar ever locks on and is correct, it never goes into trust mode.

The following will work once an once only,...
During a hard week (for her), just out of the blue send her flowers with a card from your heart. A few days later, take her to her favorite place to eat, then go shopping for her and her only. The following weekend, out again for her, drop buy that gun shop and play the sad routine. It will work unless her Radar, has been set off.

10 power is more than enough with a thin reticle and will do everything you want in comps to 1K yds in the field.
If you want to play the bench game 15-25X will work there as well. If you are like 90% of all shooters you will shoot better, with much less power than you think.

If your wanting to see bullet holes in paper or on steel, get a spotting scope.

 

[Togeneral99]

Re: New guy here with question about magnification

I agree with what others have said. The Vortex is going to be very nice for the money, The recent VHP Magazine (50BMG mag) listed a sightron SIII as a very nice scope and they spoke quite highly of the brand.

I am going to offer yet another option.

I have used a Nikon buckmaster 4.5-14x40 on my AR for quite some time and dialed out to 300 and back with great tracking (this was one of the only scopes I owned that I trusted to do this until I got my NF)
For ~$300, or less during a sale (paid $260), they are hard to beat in my opinion

 

[Gildoom]

Re: New guy here with question about magnification

+1 swfa

I don't know about the others mentioned in this thread, I don't own them.

I own a few nice scopes, my Premier is just nuts crazy good, BUT that SWFA I have, I put that sucker on all kinds of stuff. I can shoot stuff at 1,000 yards with it, and people who look at it go, "really?"

It works, the turrets return to zero, optics are clear, especially if you are shooting mid-day. This does NOT have that annoying "oh look its sort of fish bowling on the edges" that you see with cheap scopes.

The SWFA I own is the 300 dollar one, not the HD, and it seriously works. I have used it on my 308s and ARs, I think you will like it.

Where scopes fall apart imo, is the reticle, if there is a specific reticle you are after, then you kind of have to obey the brands. If you just want mil-dot, you have vast options.

 

[RicosRevenge]

Re: New guy here with question about magnification

If you like the fine crosshairs and target dot... The Weaver T-24 is your choice. The target dot is 1/8th" at 100 yards

$374 at SWFA and you're done

http://swfa.com/Weaver-24x40-T-Series-Rifle-Scope-P2869.aspx

or $405 at Bear Basin and you can get 6 months at 0% financing if you need it. Heck they may even price match.

http://www.bearbasin.com/weaver-scopes.htm

If you want tactical in that price range... a SS 16x is tough to beat. Especially at $299:

http://swfa.com/SWFA-SS-16x42-Tactical-Riflescope-P501.aspx

T-24 on my Ruger 10/22

SS 16X on my 40X .22LR

 

[elkstalker338]

Re: New guy here with question about magnification

The trick with my wife that works is keep telling her you ARE NEEDING a new scope and you will try to keep the cost down, then find a scope the runs around 1300.00 and tell her it will be the last scope you will ever need, then about a couple of weeks later run in acting all excited and tell her you just just found the same quality scope for around 500.00 and that it will fit the bill but you need to get it NOW, been working for me on rifles for the last 3 I have bought LOL. First always find it way high priced then drop about half and she will see a 50 percent off sign in her head, unless she is blonde then no telling what she will see in her head LMAO

 

[daddy3d]

Re: New guy here with question about magnification

DuaneC that is too damn funny. I take my wife with me and then spend about 1-2 hours comparing what I want against another product. My wife gets so fed up she is happy with me buying anything just to get the hell out of the store. I also have a SWFA SS 16X and they are great scopes. It is nice to have a scope that meets some sort of Milspec (NATO and not US) for a great price.

 

[daddy3d]

Re: New guy here with question about magnification

RicosRevenge, I see you too are located in DFW. I have a question maybe you can answer. Besides Tiger Valley do you know of any ranges around here longer than 200 yards?

 

[Macgyver]

Re: New guy here with question about magnification

DuaneC, it's funny you said that bcuase that's what I did about 3 days ago. I told her that I needed a S&B target scope. She asked how much and I let you look at it on the swfa site. She said he'll no your not paying 3100 on a toy. I acted all depressed and kept looking. I showed her a NF for 1800 and she said will it's better then 3100. So I am still working on her.

I did see a nice monarch 6-24x50 on fleabay nib for 489 shipped. I have also been looking at the millett 6-25x56 35mm but have heard mixed reviews on them. Something about the LRS are junk the the TRS-1 are good. Well I still have plenty of time to get one so keep throwing options my way.