Gunsmithing New Guy / New Rifle / New Problem

[cigman1st]

I have been a member of this forum for awhile and enjoy the reading, not that I get most of the technical stuff. I have a Remington 700 LTR and a new USO scope, which I bought from another member of this forum.

I have 43 total rounds through this new rifle and really enjoyed the first 40 with a Leupold Mk 4. I replaced it with the USO, went to the range, fired 3 rounds and then the problem. I cycle the bolt back and everything seems fine...go forward and the bolt plug drops by itself and won't stay loaded. This happened with a round in the chamber and it did not fire. Out of about 20 cycles the bolt will stay loaded maybe once. Remove the bolt re-install, might work the first time but then back to the problem. If there is something I can do I would love to try, if it's a bigger problem I'll send it off. Thank you for the help and I did try to search for this with no luck.

 

[deadly0311]

Re: New Guy / New Rifle / New Problem

Has anyone "adjusted" the trigger? It sounds like there is to little sear engagement, if I am reading it right and thinking that the bolt plug is really the striker.

 

[cigman1st]

Re: New Guy / New Rifle / New Problem

Yes, a gunsmith adjusted the trigger before I fired the first shot. The trigger was so heavy you couldn't help but pull off target on the squeeze.

I went to a diagram to try and use the correct terminology in my post. It very well good be the striker I'm describing. It's the part on the back of the bolt that stays back, or should stay back, after the bolt has been cycled.

 

[Rodeo Trash]

Re: New Guy / New Rifle / New Problem

I would have to agree with Deadly on his analysis. I've adjusted my Remmy & my Savage trigger to light and the same thing would happen.

 

[deadly0311]

Re: New Guy / New Rifle / New Problem

To little sear engagement

 

[cigman1st]

Re: New Guy / New Rifle / New Problem

Is it something I can adjust or better to take it back to the gunsmith for another go?

 

[71firebird400]

Re: New Guy / New Rifle / New Problem

Take it back to the gunsmith. If he's competent he'll gladly take care of it for free since he fubar'd it up.

 

[Griffin4590]

Re: New Guy / New Rifle / New Problem

my savage does the same thing when adjusted to light. I worked fine for the first 20-30 rounds after that it gave me issues. I adjusted it for more sear engagement and have had zero issues. I suspect this is due to small imperfections wearing away and smoothing out over time. Nothing to worry about and a very easy fix

 

[Beef_Supreme]

Re: New Guy / New Rifle / New Problem

Which trigger do you have on it? XMark Pro or Walker? Someone messing with the sear engagement who doesn't know what they are doing is a BIG NO NO.
Good luck, but everyone else so far is correct in their diagnosis, based on what you are describing, and that is there is too little sear engagement. If you send it back to the factory and he did too much or they deem it bad, they may charge you for a new trigger, installation labor, and crank it back up to 5 or 6 lbs. Make sure this gets done right for your sake.

 

[Chabrone]

Re: New Guy / New Rifle / New Problem

Just a thought here, but taking it back to the same guy who messed it up the first time could be a little concerning unless it was just bad luck. I would talk to him about his process and make sure he is putting on loctite or nail polish.

 

[STR]

Re: New Guy / New Rifle / New Problem

It surely sounds like you have a new type Remy trigger. To bad they changed from what they use to have in order to offer what other companys have, an easy to adjust trigger. I personally would call Timney, and order a 510 trigger from them at the required pull weight you want. It will be the best money you will spend on your rifle. You can change it your self. Worse thing that can happen is you can't remember how to reinstall the bolt release an spring. Not a big deal. Best of luck.

 

[Shortdraw]

Re: New Guy / New Rifle / New Problem

I am going to agree with STR. It is a really good option and then you'll have an adjustable trigger from now on. You can adjust the Timneys at home by yourself with no problems. Someone can walk you through the install if you have any issues. Just something to consider.

 

[cigman1st]

Re: New Guy / New Rifle / New Problem

I was there when he did the adjustment and I'm pretty sure he said it was the new Remington trigger. He scraped what look like some type of resin off of I believe two screws and was describing what the purpose of each screw was. After he finished he put a resin back on the screws.

I like the idea of the Timney trigger. Are there other options that are better or is the Timney considered the best. I would like to buy once and love it forever.

 

[deadnbrkn84]

Re: New Guy / New Rifle / New Problem

I just got my 510 on friday. Awesome trigger.

 

[Beef_Supreme]

Re: New Guy / New Rifle / New Problem

If he scraped resin off those screws then he screwed you as far as any warranty or liability goes. I don't think I'd take it back to him, he went too far obivously on something he shouldn't have messed with.
I would replace it.

 

[STR]

Re: New Guy / New Rifle / New Problem

The factory applys that resin because they don't want the user to touch those screws. One controls sear engagement, the other controls over travel . The only one they intend for you to adjust is the pull weight set screw. They should have done more R&D before releasing that POS. corporate, only cares about money lost or made.

Buy a Timney, I guarantee you will be happy. Jewell cost more, and it has it's place as a fine trigger. I have a used one I would send you to try out, but it has no bolt stop release which you will need on a stock 700.

 

[cigman1st]

Re: New Guy / New Rifle / New Problem

Ok, I've been on the Timney page and they list a curved trigger and a straight trigger. Is it back to a preference thing or is one better than the other depending on application?

 

[STR]

Re: New Guy / New Rifle / New Problem

I have never used a straight before myself. You might want to call them, and ask what the difference between the two is. If you are using it in the Rem 700, then a 510 is what you need. Make sure it has the bolt release, and specify right or left hand. If you are running a Stiller action, you will need the 510-U. The 510-U has a narrower curved shoe. These triggers are really hard to beat. Plus you will get great customer service.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: New Guy / New Rifle / New Problem

I think it's a matter of the guy wanting to give you the lightest possible trigger, and going slightly past the ideal adjustment. When he removed the thread locking compound, you were both venturing into areas that are outside the norm. Problems could result. One did.

Removing the thread locking compound was not the wisest move, warrantee-wise; but worrying about warrantees at this point is a bit like crying over spilled milk. We need to get beyond that.

Triggers undergo an initial wear stage. It is probably wisest to wait until the rifle is beyond that stage before attempting hair-critical adjustments, otherwise the initial wear could alter parts relationship and cause problems like this.

IMHO, all is <span style="font-style: italic">not</span> lost. These mechanisms do work well enough when properly adjusted. IMHO, it just needs to be adjusted again. With respect to others here, I'd take it back, calmly and reasonably explain the problem, keep mum on whatever suspicions may be present, and give the guy a chance to correct the issue. Leave it to <span style="font-style: italic">him</span> to explain the cause. Better than burning bridges.

If the initial wear is not complete, it could even happen again. This is not necessarily a failure on the smith's part; it is possibly a confirmation that some requests may be for more than the system can accomodate smoothly.

This may even be one of the reasons why factory triggers arrive in the box with so much additional adjustment range still available, with thread locker on the screws that should only be adjusted by folks who thoroughly understand issues like sear engagement and overtravel, and can accomodate the effects of normal wear and tear on those adjustments.

IMHO, once a trigger gets adjusted down to a reasonable weight, the burden shifts onto the shooter to do the accomodating. I have fired rifles with trigger weights well below 1lb, and honestly, I think they are too light and may even be questionable re: safety.

Where my triggers have been adjusted for range/bench use, I try to keep them in the 1 1/4-1 1/2lb weight range. For field useage, I prefer my triggers to be at least 3-4 lb in pull weight.

Newer guys read everything they can get their hands on, and tend to pick up truisms like lighter triggers being better for precision shooting. That's true enough, but when folks get the idea that when light is good, lighter is better, they set themselves up for the lifeboat (they tend to go overboard...). There are limits, and unless you are shooting in a benchrest comp, going under a pound may be 'penny wisdom'.

Greg

 

[remaction]

Re: New Guy / New Rifle / New Problem

I think Greg has the right approach here, and it shouldn't cost you anything to have him make another adjustment. He may (highlight on "may") be an ok gunsmith that you may want to use again. If you don't like the trigger after that, then go ahead and choose another trigger. I also have had many of my triggers in the 1.5 - 2.5# range, and that's fine for target shooting, but for my hunting rifles I've now settled on 3.5#. A few real nice bucks missed when wearing gloves convinced me of that....(can't feel the trigger well enough). If you are in warmer climates (than here in WI), and don't ever need gloves you could maybe get away with less trigger pull weight. I've found that when I'm ready to shoot, I just snug my finger up on the trigger and then it's just a bit more pressure for it to release.

 

[the gman]

Re: New Guy / New Rifle / New Problem

If you do take it back to the gunsmith and have it adjusted again, I'd advise rapping the butt pad pretty hard with either your hand or a hammer handle. This will test if you have enough seat engagement or not. If you don't like that idea, you can also try gently bumping the butt on the ground from about 4" up to ensure the rifle won't fire. Obviously, the rifle should be unloaded and cocked during these tests.

I generally find that if the rifle passes both or one of the tests, it has a trigger I can use and is safe. Ultra light triggers have their place in benchrest but not in regular use, at least IMHO.

 

[Trapshooter12]

Re: New Guy / New Rifle / New Problem

Both of my Triggers on my Rems had the resin on the adjustment screws and it needed to be scraped off to make an adjustment. That is just the way of life for them. So I don't believe anything crooked was done. The Trigger may have been over adjusted ask the guy to fix it.

As far as sending it in for warranty work now. It is my understanding that Rem will not work on the Trigger they will replace it with a new one and charge you for it. It is also my understanding that if you sent your rifle in for warranty work with another brand of Trigger they will replace it with a factory Rem Trigger. I do not know this by firsthand knowledge it is someone elses complaints that I have read...

I ended up replacing both of my Triggers with a Timmney because I like the wide shoe that they have.

 

[cigman1st]

Re: New Guy / New Rifle / New Problem

I just got back from the gunsmith and all is well. As soon as I called and described what was going on, he said bring it back now and we would figure out what was going on. I thought this was pretty stand-up since he's normally closed when he said to come over and that he stopped his loading for a competition he will be going to.

He pulled it apart in front of me and upon inspection the resin on one of the adjustment screws was apparently to thin and allowed the screw to turn when shooting. He readjusted both settings, tested it repeatedly, and coated the screws again. After putting it back together he tested out everything again and all is well. He told me to shoot it and if anything seemed odd to not hesitate in bringing it back. I tried paying him something for the quick attention and he refused.

Thanks for all the help and advice and making this newbie feel welcome. I will shoot the factory trigger until my order for a Timney trigger arrives.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: New Guy / New Rifle / New Problem

I am very happy things worked out the way they did, and as well as they did.

I appreciate that sometimes things go South, and that it can get aggravating. My own experience has taught me that folks (me included) make mistakes, and no matter how things may appear, nobody's actually out to screw me.

I ask myself how I'd feel and what I'd do if it was me who caused the problem. I'm sure I'd appreciate first crack at correcting my mistake. At very least it could provide me a chance to learn more about such matters; and could halp prevent repeated mistakes on my own part. I'd like to think folks could at least give me a chance at making ammends before writing me off completely.

Greg