New H4350 Powder Lot

[Topstrap]

We've been loading the same load for over three years now for our 260 rifles and LR pistols with no variations on our settings for the local 1000 yard match we shoot. We've bought 3 or 4 1lb cans at times and also a couple 8# kegs with no changes on our settings or velocities. Never thought to keep track of the different lot numbers we've run into over the past 3 years. We recently bought a few 8lb kegs and all our 260 guns instantly dropped nearly 100fps. This lot number is 80307125011. The guns are still very accurate even with the decreased velocity, just had to readjust our settings for each target.

Just wondered if anyone else has this lot of H4350 and noticed any changes in their velocities.

Topstrap

 

[Remnar]

Re: New H4350 Powder Lot

See my post below concerning my swing the other way. It will probably end up being the result of something I did rather than the powder.

Remnar

 

[ksthomas]

Re: New H4350 Powder Lot

Lot to lot variations do exist, and it sounds as though you may have found a good example here. Just curious, are you loading by volume (same measure setting) or setting the powder measure by weight?

 

[Topstrap]

Re: New H4350 Powder Lot

Weight, but it did seem to be a bit lower than normal in the case than what I'd remembered. Our old load has been 42.5gr since we started. We loaded 5 each of 43, 43.2, 43.4, 43.6, 43.8 and 44. Just ran them over the chrono and got these results which had a couple surprises and questions.

These first 4 loads all grouped in the 1/2" to slightly under range although we were hurrying a bit with some rain starting to move in and wind picking up.

43.0 = 2789, 2807, 2789, 2789, 2795
43.2 = 2818, 2818, 2812, 2807, 2807 This duplicated our 42.5 old powder load. Will include this load for resting and grouping next session.
43.4 = 2830, 2836, 2830, 2824, 2829 We liked this one the best so far and will include this again next session for retesting.
43.6 = 2996, 2962, 2936, 2989, 2930 Made sure this was in the order we loaded them and it had an unexplained high velocity jump. Have not seen this much jump with such a slight powder charge increase. Velocity is nice but will try it another time with both our guns to substantiate data. Primers still looked good and extracted easily. Has us bewildered.

The last two loads started to drop in velocity and had a much wider spread. Primers did start to flatten so we're dismissing these although my one XP-100 LR handgun liked the 44 gr load but the other didn't.
43.8 = 2842, 2812, 2836 missed reading
44.0 = 2849, 2836, 2830, 2842, 2855

Topstrap

 

[Niles Coyote]

Re: New H4350 Powder Lot

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Topstrap</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The last two loads started to drop in velocity and had a much wider spread. Primers did start to flatten so we're dismissing these although my one XP-100 LR handgun liked the 44 gr load but the other didn't.
43.8 = 2842, 2812, 2836 missed reading
44.0 = 2849, 2836, 2830, 2842, 2855 </div></div>

I just bought 16 pounds from PV, with 44g in my 24" obermeyer I am getting the same numbers you are with a 140 amax in lapua brass. What bullet are you using??? hate to think I am being matched for speed by a 15 incher

 

[Topstrap]

Re: New H4350 Powder Lot

These velocities are in my sons rifle, it has a 28" Shilen Select Match with the Hornady BTHP Match bullet. My 28" rifle with the same barrel runs 25fps faster than my sons. We'll test it also the next session we retry these loads. The 15" pistol with a Lilja 3 groove barrel liked the 44gr of H4350 but was running 2525fps.

Topstrap

 

[RottenII]

Re: New H4350 Powder Lot

I just picked up 16lbs of H4350 and ran some loads over the chrono. I'm ave about 60fps slower than my original lot. At work so I don't have lot numbers.

 

[Killswitch Engage]

Re: New H4350 Powder Lot

I understand there can be variations in lots of anything but this shit is just unacceptable to me. There should not be these kinds of velocity spreads within a powder lot to lot. Some people can't afford 16lbs of powder or 2000 bullets at a time to make sure your shit shoots the same and shouldn't have to...

 

[ksthomas]

Re: New H4350 Powder Lot

TopStrap,

That's why I asked; try another series of rounds, but setting the measure to the same setting you used with the previous lot of powder, and see if that doesn't bring the velocity spreads a bit closer together.

Have to remember that powder is an organic compound, and despite the factory's best efforts, there's going to be some variation from one run to the next. There's really nothing they can do about this much beyond the efforts that they already employ. frankly, given the variables they deal with, I'm continually amazed they keep this stuff as uniform as they do. Only real solution here is to buy in as large a quantity as you can afford, and stay ahead of the curve as best you can.

 

[Topstrap]

Re: New H4350 Powder Lot

Interesting about volume instead of weight. Within lots H4350 is extremely consistent and have not had this before but in the old days shooting IHMSA silhouette with open sighted XP-100 pistols we never noticed a slight change in velocity or impact differences on our targets. New game this LR stuff is and every slight change in something affects scores and hits.

Been an interesting learning curve and goes to show every shot we fire we can be learning something. Thanks for the tip Kevin, will try to check that out and see what we can find.

I'm not complaining about the powder since it's been working great but was just curious as to others finding the same thing and maybe pass along some info to others if they just bought a new batch of the same stuff.

Topstrap

 

[turbo54]

Re: New H4350 Powder Lot

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Killswitch engage</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I understand there can be variations in lots of anything but this shit is just unacceptable to me. There should not be these kinds of velocity spreads within a powder lot to lot. Some people can't afford 16lbs of powder or 2000 bullets at a time to make sure your shit shoots the same and shouldn't have to... </div></div>

Feel free to not buy it, then.

Perhaps you can do a better job making it yourself?

 

[Niles Coyote]

Re: New H4350 Powder Lot

FWIW,

I have been blending my old/new powder together for the last several years with the extreme lines. Usually when I am down to about 1/2 a 8 pound can. I have gone through several lots of Varget, H4350, H4831sc, and H1000 along with imr8208. By doing this I have not noticed any major swings that I have detected at distance or my chronograph.

 

[mnhntr]

Re: New H4350 Powder Lot

What is the difference in temp since you shot last?

 

[Wade]

Re: New H4350 Powder Lot

No big deal to me. I'd rather get the great hodgdon powder I am used to than pay the outrageous prices it would cost for all jugs to be the same. Have you measured bullets lot to lot or recorded velocity through barrel life? Powder is one of several ever changing variables that we must learn to deal with in long range shooting.

 

[ctressler]

Re: New H4350 Powder Lot

Topstrap - What Chronograph and powder scale are you using? Changed either lately?

 

[Rthur]

Re: New H4350 Powder Lot

Lighting could account for some of this on some chronos. I must be lucky as the three lots I have had are within 10 fps across an oehler.

 

[Topstrap]

Re: New H4350 Powder Lot

Same everything, scale, bullets brass, primers except for the powder. We've not had to vary our settings from early spring thru summer to fall normally with the H4350 so not the temp doing it. What brought this to our attention was added elevation settings the one day at practice. This was the day after we started using the new lot of powder. Consistent elevation was needed for both guns at all distances. We are nearly identical with our settings thru 1000 yards with both guns and with this powder lot difference and we added in the needed change we're still nearly identical.

That is when we checked our velocities and found them to be low. Also checked the automatic throw/scale against our beam scale and it was correct. Sons gun has about 700 rounds thru it and mine about 300. My LR pistol also needed elevation to get back on target also but I didn't chrono any loads thru it yet to see what the drop was in the 15" barrel. Buddy also got a keg from this lot but he's not opened it yet, anxious to see what his does.

Topstrap