Yes if you're in cold country heated floor is the only way to go. House and garage.
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New house build: ideas and advice
- Thread starter rjacobs
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Yes if you're in cold country heated floor is the only way to go. House and garage.
I own a plumbing & gas company tankless water heaters have their pros and cons, but most new houses I have done for the past 15yrs have gotten them and most home owners seem to like them. The brand I mostly install is Rinnai and for the most part they have been very reliable and trouble free. Tankless water heaters only produce hot water when you turn on the hot side of a faucet or a tub/shower faucet. The complaint I hear most is when someone has had the hot water running then turn the hot water off, but then they turn it back on again only a few seconds later the water will be hot then go cold for a few seconds then back to hot again. Some call it a cold water sandwich and all tankless water heaters do it because when the hot water was turned off even only for a few seconds the tankless water heater went into shut down mode when the water wasn't flowing through it then when the hot water was turned on again the tankless water heater fired back up, but it takes about 10-20 seconds for it to start producing hot water again so there will be about 10-20 seconds of cold water that ran through it that will make it to the hot water faucet thus giving the user a section of cold water until the new hot water reaches the faucet. Tankless water heaters require a minimum flow of water to activate/fire up and start producing hot water so the other complaint I hear sometimes is that people can't just run a small stream of hot water because when the flow drops below a certain level the tankless water heater shuts itself off even though there will still be a small flow of water going through it, this also causes problems with using low flow shower head or aerators or faucets. Now the good is that (with the proper flow) you will not run out of hot water once you turn on the hot water you could stay in the shower all day if you wanted to......LOL
That is actually incorrect 3/4" is the minimum size required for most tankless water heaters and if it were a high pressure system you could actually use 1/2" and a pressure regulator and it would run fine.
like i said before, i hope you dont use 400 amps.
what are you guys doing running foundries or growing dope in your basements???
Just planning for the future:
100a to detached shop
50a hot tub
50a pool(might be 60 actually) not counting a possible pool heater(although would likely plumb to my propane)
50a plug for car charger(dont currently have, but doing to future proof)
dual all electric HVAC is 40a a piece so 80a total
dual electric hot water heaters are 30a a piece so 60a total
electric oven is usually 30a
exhaust hood for gas cook top is 20a
washer/dryer is 2 circuits(15a/110 and 30a/220)
plus all the other stuff im not thinking about(all outlets, lights, home theater, etc...).
I am reasonable confident I wont be running it all at the same time obviously, but I could see a few situations where exceeding 200a could be a possibility(lots of guests say at Christmas time so both HVAC heaters are running along with both hot water heaters, oven, hot tub heater, etc...). The biggest issue is running out of breaker space as I outlined earlier. 42 breaker spaces in a 200amp panel will get tight really quick. My 2200 sq. ft. current home has the breaker panel maxed out after I put in 50a for hot tub and 50a for welder circuit and the house we are building is going to be almost twice as large. This builder when you spec the pool stub and hot tub stub have a caveat that it "may require" an upgraded electrical service. Im just doing it, im not going to ever worry about power capabilities.
firstly, i couldnt be happier for you to be having a new home built for you, you sound like a prudent person.
may i ask how much of an additional cost will it be over a 200 amp service
may i ask how much of an additional cost will it be over a 200 amp service
Shops are like Gun safes figure out what you need, then add 25%...........then double it! That should hold you for a couple years.....
2250. Thats an additional panel and all that goes with it(larger meter pan, etc...). Since im having them run a stub for a pool and a stub for a hot tub, they require it. They are also going to run me a conduit from the panel to outside of the house so I can run my shop power easily later on.
As far as monthly cost, I will have a single 400a residential meter, so normal meter charges according to the poco.
I cant get way out of whack compared to the size of the house. I may do slightly bigger than 30x40, but thats where I am at now. Contemplating a 10x40 lean to with 20 foot enclosed and 20 foot as awning.
im going thru a 200 amp 3phase power drop right now... additionally to the 3 other meters i have on the property here.
if you can believe the cost spread,
1st $26000.00, yep, no extra 0,s
2nd $4200.00...an older e contactor in the area that we usually use for things that must be permitted, unfortunately
age has got to him right as he was ready to start on our project.
3rd $7500.00 for almost the apples and oranges i need done. prolly $1500 more
4th guy i meet today.
$2250.00 aint shit for a good piece of mind
if you can believe the cost spread,
1st $26000.00, yep, no extra 0,s
2nd $4200.00...an older e contactor in the area that we usually use for things that must be permitted, unfortunately
age has got to him right as he was ready to start on our project.
3rd $7500.00 for almost the apples and oranges i need done. prolly $1500 more
4th guy i meet today.
$2250.00 aint shit for a good piece of mind
Just got back from contracting.
My number and hers didnt match up. The lot had a 7500 lot premium... uh sorry, no it doesnt. On their big layout board of the neighborhood, every lot that had a premium had it written on there... but not our lot. So they had to get rid of that.
Then the propane price they quoted me(via email) was 1500 difference than the actual price. So they gave me 1500 more to spend in the design center. My only other thought on this is to upgrade from 250 gallon to 500 gallon for an additional 1500 bucks... I think the price is stupid, but I may do it because I wanted 500 gallons anyway for a Generac generator.
My number and hers didnt match up. The lot had a 7500 lot premium... uh sorry, no it doesnt. On their big layout board of the neighborhood, every lot that had a premium had it written on there... but not our lot. So they had to get rid of that.
Then the propane price they quoted me(via email) was 1500 difference than the actual price. So they gave me 1500 more to spend in the design center. My only other thought on this is to upgrade from 250 gallon to 500 gallon for an additional 1500 bucks... I think the price is stupid, but I may do it because I wanted 500 gallons anyway for a Generac generator.
3 phase is stupit expensive to run anyway.
I have a buddy with 3 phase 440v in his shop. He said its like $400 a month service fee then KWH charge on top of that which is like 5x the charge of single phase...
His machines are to big to run on phase converter motors so he HAS to have 3 phase.
all i can say is im glad i COULD get a 3 phase power drop, im glad we have 3 phase power available to us, very cheaply.
the other 3 meters are single
the other 3 meters are single
I've done most of this.
I'd skip the lift in the garage.For the amount of time you'll use it, it'll get in the way 5x as often. Owner of jeeps and humvees.
I'd do a vault door over any # of gun safes.
48" cook top with a griddle. Look at the noise level on the range hood. Consider a pot filler on the cook top.
I did 2 dishwashers. KitchenAid's are highly rated. Get a 33" or 36" sink.
I'd skip most of the ethernet pre-wiring. Go with a mesh system and 3 or more access points(like google wifi). Covers 4k streaming.
I get 115mb/s download in detached barn (its a party room and workshop), no cables necessary, save your money there.
Did a rainfall and traditional showerhead in mbr. two separate controls. nice, not much $$ extra.
I poured a large concrete patio, 1.25" low, layed travertine stone over the top - easy. Concrete is $3.75 here a sq/ft installed, but the trucks are heavy, so get it done upfront.
if you can do a walk in shower without glass, do it.
Granite and Dolomite countertops can take 400 degree heat without issue. Quartz (in resin, very common) will burn if someone puts a hot saucepan or pot on it.
Get low sone (quite) high cfm bath fans (Panasonic makes them).
Insulation in laundry room walls.
Good lighting in can (ran that last night, two led cans)
Don't skimp on insulation. especially living areas over cold areas (like crawls and garages in northern climates)
I'm in Ohio, so it gets cold here. I did Drylock paint + OC Foamular R10 + R19 on basement walls and crawl walls, R10 on crawl floor. - floors above will be warm with minor conditioning.
I did a lot of the work myself (hired out the poured foundation, framing, roof, and drywall). I went over-budget, but going in I didn't anticipate some of the niceties like two dishwashers, nicer granite, larger shower, insulation, all the home runs on electric.
Congrats, you'll love your new house.
I'd skip the lift in the garage.For the amount of time you'll use it, it'll get in the way 5x as often. Owner of jeeps and humvees.
I'd do a vault door over any # of gun safes.
48" cook top with a griddle. Look at the noise level on the range hood. Consider a pot filler on the cook top.
I did 2 dishwashers. KitchenAid's are highly rated. Get a 33" or 36" sink.
I'd skip most of the ethernet pre-wiring. Go with a mesh system and 3 or more access points(like google wifi). Covers 4k streaming.
I get 115mb/s download in detached barn (its a party room and workshop), no cables necessary, save your money there.
Did a rainfall and traditional showerhead in mbr. two separate controls. nice, not much $$ extra.
I poured a large concrete patio, 1.25" low, layed travertine stone over the top - easy. Concrete is $3.75 here a sq/ft installed, but the trucks are heavy, so get it done upfront.
if you can do a walk in shower without glass, do it.
Granite and Dolomite countertops can take 400 degree heat without issue. Quartz (in resin, very common) will burn if someone puts a hot saucepan or pot on it.
Get low sone (quite) high cfm bath fans (Panasonic makes them).
Insulation in laundry room walls.
Good lighting in can (ran that last night, two led cans)
Don't skimp on insulation. especially living areas over cold areas (like crawls and garages in northern climates)
I'm in Ohio, so it gets cold here. I did Drylock paint + OC Foamular R10 + R19 on basement walls and crawl walls, R10 on crawl floor. - floors above will be warm with minor conditioning.
I did a lot of the work myself (hired out the poured foundation, framing, roof, and drywall). I went over-budget, but going in I didn't anticipate some of the niceties like two dishwashers, nicer granite, larger shower, insulation, all the home runs on electric.
Congrats, you'll love your new house.
I need a 4 post in the garage unless I decide I can get the detached shop built pretty quick. Ive got 2 Corvettes that need to use it for storage to get shit out of my way. But 4 post is 4k or under and the shop is looking like 15-20k.
No where in this house to do a vault. No basements in Texas. I have a few ideas on gun storage im playing with.
36" cooktop is as big as they will give us unless we went aftermarket, but then you deal with the hood that has to match and it gets pricey. I fought with them for over a week just to figure out what was available and if it would work for us. 36" kitchenaid 6 burner commercial style range top and a Zephyr Tornado 1 hood insert... Not exactly what I wanted, but it will work.
1 dishwasher is enough for us, we only currently run it like once a week.
The sink is already pretty wide. Might be 36" already, not sure, but its about as wide as the cook top.
I dont want a mesh network. I'm set on the Ubiquiti stuff.
Ive got a concrete patio extension they are doing and thinking of adding onto the driveway out to where the shop will eventually sit. They wont pour the pad for the shop though, but will pour a driveway extension for "extra parking".
Counters are granite.
Lots of can lights included in the plan already.
Insulation is good to go, already been over that. Were in Texas so dont deal with the cold, but the heat.
Thanks for your inputs.
I believe thats called the "fuck you" price.
Not sure where you are at, but here in North Texas, small time builders or individuals that want to act as their own GC are going to be last on the list for all the sub contractor type operations... Our builder said he has his concrete sub contractor on the books for the next 24 months...
and my current house will be worth 20-30% less... What's your point?
You can never sell at the high and buy at the low, shit dont work like that, you are fucked on both ends no matter how the housing market is doing. IMO its like timing the stock market... Unless you are going to live in a trailer for a few years or some shit like that.
Only time selling high works out for you is if you are moving to a different location where you can buy a similar or better house for less. My sister made 80K when she sold her house, she moved to a town where the housing market is way cheaper bought bigger better nicer house, but now she has a hour drive to and from work where as before she only had about a 15 minute drive each way. As they say "there is no free lunch"
I didn’t go through each post w/ a fine toothed comb, but I didn’t see any mention of an outdoor cooking area or a kegerator.
Im getting a propane stub for a grill. Looking at a Napolean Prestige Pro 665. When we build out the pool in a few years I will do a more proper outdoor kitchen.
Dont drink anymore so no need for a kegerator or bar, although, again when I build out a proper outdoor kitchen in a few years I will include some type of small bar area that can be setup for parties.
Couple of things to think about.
1. Raise the counter in the master bath 6" from normal height. I would do this in all bathrooms unless I had small kids. This isn't hard, just a 1x6 on top of the standard base cabinets.
2. If you are not building your shop for a while, I don't see a sink in the utility room unless it is next to the washer? Where are you washing your hands after working on the Corvettes, mowers, etc.?
3. You need space for a freezer in the utility room.
4. If you are planning a pool later, add a door from the master to the patio/pool.
5. If they are going to sheetrock the garage at least stub pipe so you can have compressed air at various points and at the door.
1. Raise the counter in the master bath 6" from normal height. I would do this in all bathrooms unless I had small kids. This isn't hard, just a 1x6 on top of the standard base cabinets.
2. If you are not building your shop for a while, I don't see a sink in the utility room unless it is next to the washer? Where are you washing your hands after working on the Corvettes, mowers, etc.?
3. You need space for a freezer in the utility room.
4. If you are planning a pool later, add a door from the master to the patio/pool.
5. If they are going to sheetrock the garage at least stub pipe so you can have compressed air at various points and at the door.
1. Thats a good idea, ill chat with the builder and see if we can use a kitchen base cabinet instead of bathroom base cabinets.
2. I think I mentioned it earlier in the thread. I should be able to get one put in the garage wall next to the utility room since it will have plumbing in the wall/slab right there. Its on my list to talk to the builder about.
3. We are not freezer people. We have some ice cream and my wife likes to keep frozen chicken(although we always seem to need to buy fresh chicken)...beyond that, everything we eat is fresh. We actually contemplated going with a refrigerator only instead of a combo unit in the kitchen and a small chest freezer somewhere else, but then you really lose your ability to have ice and we like the filtered water.
4. Asked the builder about it and they said without a patio there, code wont allow it. The cost was also absurd because any changes in the walls require a $1500 engineering/architecture fee...up front. So to put a door in was like 2500 bucks. We wanted to do a sliding door from the kitchen nook to the patio instead of a swing door, but a nice $2000 sliding glass door became $3500. I called a local Anderson windows place and they said the install after the fact would only cost like $1000... So to answer your question, we would like to do it, but right now I have better places to spend that money and when we do a pool, thats on the list to do at that point.
5. The garage will be sheet rocked by the builder. I dont have a large compressor, just a twin tank Rolair thats bad ass for what it is(100% duty cycle motor). Im planning to have a 100' hose reel on the ceiling and will probably stick my compressor in the attic to feed it. Should get me anything I need(99% of my use of it is airing tires). I have all electric impacts and what not so air is not a high priority of mine right now. NOW when I build the shop out I will be getting a much larger compressor and running black pipe all around for compressor lines.
i might have missed it in all the posts but if you're using tankless water heater.....strongly consider a recirculating pump. the heaters are great but in our two story home it takes forever till the hot water hits the farthest shower location....which of course is the shower we use mostly.
also, it may sound silly however if you have an upstairs bathroom/toilet drain pipe that goes downstairs and it's anywhere near your living room or dining room areas please make sure it's made of metal and very well insulated.....hearing the flush in our living room when we have guests over drove my better half crazy.
not sure how you're finishing your car garage....wish i had made the floor to ceiling height just a bit taller so we could have fit a car lift. i really regret this.
so glad we didn't go with baseboards and such trim...we have a rather modern design....so much easier to clean and care for.
also, just a thought but the island in the kitchen looks to be smack in the middle of the room...wondering if it might work shifted a bit closer to the working spaces...albeit with plenty of room to walk around it and open the various appliances etc. That would give you more room for storage/shelves/cabinets...whatever.
we're very happy with solar electric...as it was a new construction the cost was not too terrible.
also, it may sound silly however if you have an upstairs bathroom/toilet drain pipe that goes downstairs and it's anywhere near your living room or dining room areas please make sure it's made of metal and very well insulated.....hearing the flush in our living room when we have guests over drove my better half crazy.
not sure how you're finishing your car garage....wish i had made the floor to ceiling height just a bit taller so we could have fit a car lift. i really regret this.
so glad we didn't go with baseboards and such trim...we have a rather modern design....so much easier to clean and care for.
also, just a thought but the island in the kitchen looks to be smack in the middle of the room...wondering if it might work shifted a bit closer to the working spaces...albeit with plenty of room to walk around it and open the various appliances etc. That would give you more room for storage/shelves/cabinets...whatever.
we're very happy with solar electric...as it was a new construction the cost was not too terrible.
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not using tankless. I have the recirc pump on my list to ask the builder about, but with pex, running from a manifold setup, I dont know if the recirc pumps work, but I guess you just use a return line or something like that.
No upstairs bathroom. The cost was stupid(5500 for half bath) and we just didnt think we would use it often enough to justify it.
Garage has 10' ceilings and I am doing high clearance tracks at least in the 3rd bay to give room for the 4 post lift.
I believe the island is at minimum 36"(might be like 40") clearance from the countertop on the wall. There are min requirements for that for ADA compliance. It might "look" like its out to far on the drawing I posted in the first post, but in reality, its not, or at least it doesnt feel like it. Ive been in their model(not this exact model, but they have a few that are similar) and its a good distance.
which steps? the staircase upstairs? I believe there are 4 or 5 sconce lights up the stairwell and a can light at the turn.
And we thought about a dog door, but our dog wont go outside without us, plus we wont have a fence in the yard. Thinking through some type of invisible fence, but not real sure yet.
Will do.
Thanks.
we have 2 areas with stairs, in one we inset small lights into the vertical part of the step (riser), and on the other stairwell which was more of an open, free floating type of design, we inset small lights into the adjoining wall. it's just enough light to create a little ambiance and more importantly to show us the steps at night. these led lights are pretty cheap and look nice. something like these...they come in different colors: https://www.amazon.com/LEONLITE-Dim...words=lights+for+stairs&qid=1571242829&sr=8-9
oh, and it sounds like you're putting in a lot of led can lights...if so please don't forget to put in a bunch of dimmers. it was a real eye opener mistake for us. easy to fix but wasted money non the less.
oh, and it sounds like you're putting in a lot of led can lights...if so please don't forget to put in a bunch of dimmers. it was a real eye opener mistake for us. easy to fix but wasted money non the less.
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oh yea I have seen those types of lights... Not sure thats an option from the builder. They dont seem to be to interested in straying from their available option sheets. And to be honest, the stairs wont be used a ton, as its just a game room and home theater up there. I think the few sconce lights and a can light will be plenty.
Were actually putting in zero LED cans... they are all incandescent... The upgrade to LED was like 50 per fixture... fuck that, ill throw in $10 LED floods after we move in.
As far as dimmers, we are doing the "decora" switch upgrade throughout the house so that we can put in dimmers or some type of smart switches after the fact. The "decora" switch upgrade was cheap, but if we had them put any kind of dimmer or smart switch in, the price is absolutely stupid. Ive got a few things planned for dimmers. We will probably do a Lutron Caseta system and slowly piece it together.
i commend you for all your forethought. i tried as well but didn't always succeed. For example with respect to landscaping.....while i kind of mapped out what i thought the yard space would look like i guess i didn't spend enough time on the minutia....like exactly where to put hose spigots and electricity outlets for irrigation system, I thought i had this all figured out but i still buggered it up. It wasn't too hard to fix but again more money and not as clean looking as we would have liked.
Im planning a spigot on the back, a spigot at the garage-ish and a spigot on the left side. All 3 will be right next to the bathrooms so easy to hook up to.
The sprinkler system thats included only covers the front yard(which is also all they sod). I'm going to get the guy to run me a box with like 3-4 zones on it that I can then connect up to to cover the back yard, tree's, garden, etc... instead of having to do major surgery to do it after the fact.
Landscaping is something I havent even thought through yet. I got a buddy that owns a big nursery and I will go chat with him before I chat with the builders landscaper. I dont know what my landscape budget is. Im planning to do a decent amount of crepe myrtles as the town were building in is known as the Crepe Myrtle capital and they grow really well in the heat.
Im having them put me in a GFCI circuit for landscape lighting. They terminate the wire in a waterproof box and the rest is up to me.
Less is more. I'd swap that $750,000 'upgrade' house for property with a small house and big shop: Quality over Quantity. You'll be paying a lot for shit you don't need, wasting time working to pay for it.
Save money now to retire early and GTFO the city.
2¢
*edit* I was living in central Texas 15 years ago and traffic sucked then. Now you've got all the Kaliforninans moving in driving up the cost of living and mucking up the highways. I always laugh when I read about traffic shenanigans between Houston/Dallas/San Antonio
Seriously, guys, pop smoke and evac that shit. Haha. I always had better luck driving the Farm-to-Market roads filled with deer than the Cities filled with 2-legged animals.
Save money now to retire early and GTFO the city.
2¢
*edit* I was living in central Texas 15 years ago and traffic sucked then. Now you've got all the Kaliforninans moving in driving up the cost of living and mucking up the highways. I always laugh when I read about traffic shenanigans between Houston/Dallas/San Antonio
Seriously, guys, pop smoke and evac that shit. Haha. I always had better luck driving the Farm-to-Market roads filled with deer than the Cities filled with 2-legged animals.
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Yes on the 400 amp service. This way your wife can be using power, and you can be welding with the air compressor running, etc.
I would build the walls using ICF. Insulated concrete forms. Very energy efficient, easy to build with, and bullet proof. Typically 8" or 6" reinforced concrete walls, with insulation on the inside and outside. Common in Canada and Florida. Also used to make safe rooms in Florida.
I would build the walls using ICF. Insulated concrete forms. Very energy efficient, easy to build with, and bullet proof. Typically 8" or 6" reinforced concrete walls, with insulation on the inside and outside. Common in Canada and Florida. Also used to make safe rooms in Florida.
Make the shop bigger. Use 14' walls not 12' walls, then you can park a camper inside.
I'd rather have a kitchen with a sink facing outside so you can have a window to look out of over the sink.
Optional 3 car garage is a great idea, if you have acreage you can park the tractor in the extra garage.
You need a powder room, for guests to drop a deuce by the front door and stay out of the bedrooms, maybe turn the niche into more pantry and the pantry into a crapper.
Rethink the wasted space in the master bathroom, the two sinks across the tub idea is stupid.
I'd rather have a kitchen with a sink facing outside so you can have a window to look out of over the sink.
Optional 3 car garage is a great idea, if you have acreage you can park the tractor in the extra garage.
You need a powder room, for guests to drop a deuce by the front door and stay out of the bedrooms, maybe turn the niche into more pantry and the pantry into a crapper.
Rethink the wasted space in the master bathroom, the two sinks across the tub idea is stupid.
I would say most issues in a home are water related, inside and out. I would extend all soffits to minimum 24" on the outside. Minimize need for sump pump in the home. And the first thing on my next build is a mannifold for all water lines. I want to be able to shutoff water to any room, without interruption of others. All rooms are fed with 3/4 line. I would insulate all lines, cold and hot and think about recirculating hot water to long runs.
Bullfrog makes a great point, especially regarding recirculating hot water lines.....i so wish we had done that. To do so now is incredibly expensive at least with the design of our home....our other option is to install a noisy pump under the sink.
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I think Rum has dropped in price over the past 30 years......
all other utilities and commodities are up....
So I would "over Insulate"
Over insulating makes running wires more of a pain... so plan electrical outlet and LAN wires ahead of time...
With any larger house, heating/ cooling zones makes sense.... why heat a large garage when you can heat just your loading room...
As you are on 1 acre.... any thoughts on building a large rental over the garage?
It might be nice to have a tenant who covers all of your property tax and utilities in retirement...
all other utilities and commodities are up....
So I would "over Insulate"
Over insulating makes running wires more of a pain... so plan electrical outlet and LAN wires ahead of time...
With any larger house, heating/ cooling zones makes sense.... why heat a large garage when you can heat just your loading room...
As you are on 1 acre.... any thoughts on building a large rental over the garage?
It might be nice to have a tenant who covers all of your property tax and utilities in retirement...
While I CAN build a metal building, im not going to build some monstrosity that pisses off my neighbors... and a 2 story metal building would DEFINITELY do that. I also have zero desire to have any "tenants" on my property...
