If the states can legalize marijuana and become sanctuaries for illegal immigrants then states should be able to legalize suppressors...
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Suppressors New Law in Texas Deregulates Suppressors
- Thread starter Longshot231
- Start date
There is a thread on this already but, I would not want to be the first person to test this out. I can’t see the AG representing you in Federal court.
This will be interesting to watch...............Stay tuned, as I can't see a shop owner taking the risk.......Making your own?
Hi,
Hasn't this been done in a few other States already in terms of "Made Here, Purchased Here, Used Here, Legal Here" type of things?
Pretty sure there is IIRC a Kansas man sitting in prison now because he "tested" the waters.
Just because local and State agencies will look the other way. The law doesn't say those local and State agencies will NOT allow the Fed agencies to arrest you. Please let me know what State passes such law with that exact wording.
Edited to Correct Arkansas to Kansas as the State in question.
Sincerely,
Theis
Hasn't this been done in a few other States already in terms of "Made Here, Purchased Here, Used Here, Legal Here" type of things?
Pretty sure there is IIRC a Kansas man sitting in prison now because he "tested" the waters.
Just because local and State agencies will look the other way. The law doesn't say those local and State agencies will NOT allow the Fed agencies to arrest you. Please let me know what State passes such law with that exact wording.
Edited to Correct Arkansas to Kansas as the State in question.
Sincerely,
Theis
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How true. The guys in Kansas didn't fare well:
Sen. Tyson petitions President Trump for pardon of two Kansans caught in gun silencer case • Kansas Reflector
A GOP state senator seeks a President Trump pardon for two Kansans convicted of felony crimes for selling and buying a firearm silencer.
kansasreflector.com
All true about the Federal Law. There are a number of states that have passed some sort of 2A sanctuary laws.
It basically means that if you live in one of those states and you violate the NFA 1934, the state and local authorities cannot go after you. The feds can chase you all day long.
Missouri is one state that penalizes state and/or local law enforcement if assisting or trying to enforce federal law. It is almost like free states, before the Civil War, that refused to enforce or assist slave hunters who tried to enforce the Fugitive Slave Act of 1850.
It basically means that if you live in one of those states and you violate the NFA 1934, the state and local authorities cannot go after you. The feds can chase you all day long.
Missouri is one state that penalizes state and/or local law enforcement if assisting or trying to enforce federal law. It is almost like free states, before the Civil War, that refused to enforce or assist slave hunters who tried to enforce the Fugitive Slave Act of 1850.
Guess we Texians figured if the Pacific NW can get away with selling and smoking weed why not try it w suppressors. A few more states like FL and our TX neighbors join in and the Feds are going to have a rough time cracking down
It's based on interstate commerce. In theory, if the product you are manufacturing never crosses state lines or is not offered for sale or sold over state lines, then it does not fall under Federal Commerce and is void of all Federal taxes, etc.
FYI, some employers try to avoid overtime pay based on this concept as well.
FYI, some employers try to avoid overtime pay based on this concept as well.
This is interesting. The Supremes have historically interpreted what effects interstate commerce extremely broadly.
Seems to me, at the very least a company would have to mfg. suppressors in Texas, using materials/parts purchased from other companies in TX, and would have to sell solely to Texas residents. Although broad, Congress' power under the Commerce Clause is not infinite. Surely, there is some commerce that is so inherently local that it is beyond Congress power to regulate.
Seems to me, at the very least a company would have to mfg. suppressors in Texas, using materials/parts purchased from other companies in TX, and would have to sell solely to Texas residents. Although broad, Congress' power under the Commerce Clause is not infinite. Surely, there is some commerce that is so inherently local that it is beyond Congress power to regulate.
Yes and no... States Rights can nullify a Federal law. That's how pot can be legal in half the country, and not the other half, but it's still Federally illegal and criminal across the board. Big Brother has gotten too big for his britches, and once that genie got out of the bottle, it's nearly impossible to put it back in.
Feds bust someone with a bale of weed, state law doesn't mean anything in federal court.
With this law, someone wanting to do the suppressor thing will need to petition the Texas AG first before manufacturing it. So, I don't see anyone going to jail for just for that.
Now if someone dipshit makes a suppressor then tries to go backdoor, then that is outside the process and subject to criminal bullshit.
Now if someone dipshit makes a suppressor then tries to go backdoor, then that is outside the process and subject to criminal bullshit.
IMHO, if you live in a state which is a 2A sanctuary and choose to get a (non-compliant with the NFA) suppressor, then don't flaunt it on social media like Jeremy Kettler did. Only use it at shooting ranges in which you know that nobody will tell on you. Or shoot it on private property.
That's because most state weed laws include quantity in possession. It has to be less than X amount, proving you didn't have "intent to distribute" (be a drug dealer).
Correct. State law can be more restrictive, but not less restrictive, than Federal law.
From an article I read about the Kettler case:
The Kansas Legislature and the Kansas governor basically “sold this kid down the river with a law they knew full well was not going to be able to thwart the federal government,” said Ian Clark, the attorney who represented Kettler at trial. “That is the sadness of all this — they basically made Jeremy and Shane their guinea pigs.”
I wondered a couple weeks ago when Abbott signed the Texas laws, what his team of lawyers were thinking when they advised him on this whole situation. Law limits freedom, it doesn't define it. Saying, essentially, "we now have a law in Texas that makes suppressors legal" is the same as saying, "we don't have a law in Texas that prohibits suppressors." With the overarching Federal law, neither proclamation makes a difference. That's right where we were before Abbott made his announcement.
Now, if the whole "interstate commerce" argument is what this will all hang on, someone in Texas needs to start mining iron ore and the other elements from which steel and titanium are made.
It'd be nice if the NFA/GCA just went away.
Hi,
Prisons are full of people that did things with people that "would never tell on them".
There are several States with no State income taxes but that doesn't stop you from having to file and pay Federal Income Tax.
These "2A Sanctuary" laws are pretty much nothing but pandering because it makes no difference if HCSO, Texas DPS, Etc does NOT arrest or assist in the arrest when you still sitting behind bars because Feds actually DID arrest you and none of those State agencies did anything to stop it.
Sincerely,
Theis
Prisons are full of people that did things with people that "would never tell on them".
There are several States with no State income taxes but that doesn't stop you from having to file and pay Federal Income Tax.
These "2A Sanctuary" laws are pretty much nothing but pandering because it makes no difference if HCSO, Texas DPS, Etc does NOT arrest or assist in the arrest when you still sitting behind bars because Feds actually DID arrest you and none of those State agencies did anything to stop it.
Sincerely,
Theis
Federal laws supersede State laws. The Feds have chosen not to prosecute those operating "legally" in States where medical and recreational marijuana are now legalized statewide.
To be clear, the Feds can but don't enforce their marijuana laws in states that have legalized marijuana in some way or anther.
To be clear, the Feds can but don't enforce their marijuana laws in states that have legalized marijuana in some way or anther.
Yep. US Attorney's Offices aren't going after the weed because it's too prevalent. If they prosecuted every marijuana possession case that came along, they'd never have time for anything else. In some areas of the southwest, the illegal immigration is getting to be the same.
If there were half a dozen shops producing suppressors in every Texas town, and gun crimes weren't all of a sudden committed with suppressed weapons, i.e. the suppressors were every-fucking-where but weren't really a "problem," much like weed, maybe the Feds would look the other way.
all of my stuff, suppressors, SBR are all legal. My suppressors all have covers as they get hotter than hell if shot much. I have been at many ranges where LE of all agencies shoot to include FBI, ATF and local and state guys. NOT one time has anyone ever asked to see my paperwork or asked if everything is legal. I have friends in the federal agencies, and none of the agencies have the manpower to do what they are already tasked to do, let alone any additional duties.
The NFA laws passed years ago are antiquated and out of date.
The NFA laws passed years ago are antiquated and out of date.
According to their own website, the ATF has 1,714 special agents. That must be why the ask for local LEO assistance.
www.atf.gov
Special Agents | ATF
www.atf.gov
One twisted part of my almost wants to join AFT to be a monkey wrench LOL.According to their own website, the ATF has 1,714 special agents. That must be why the ask for local LEO assistance.
Special Agents | ATF
I think that the first test you would have to pass would be to get the letters in the correct order
In addition, if Waco Dave gets the nomination you would also have to be white.
Report: Biden's pick for ATF head made 'shocking, offensive' comments about black ATF agents
Chipman allegedly made a racist comment in 2007 about black applicants who passed a Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives (ATF) exam.
www.lawenforcementtoday.com
I identify as a gender-fluid chair.
That should meet-or-exceed the "elite agent" part of the job description.
Its funny in every gang shoot out video you hear or see now days, you hear full auto fire, but these two knuckle heads get caught up. That really says something about playing look at me, and whack-a-mole.How true. The guys in Kansas didn't fare well:
Sen. Tyson petitions President Trump for pardon of two Kansans caught in gun silencer case • Kansas Reflector
A GOP state senator seeks a President Trump pardon for two Kansans convicted of felony crimes for selling and buying a firearm silencer.
I have tax stamps for any of my equipment that the NFA mandates I need them for. Agree with it or not, I am the sole provider for my family so $200 a pop seems like a small price to pay and I’m not interested in rolling any dice.
HOWEVER, it is an interesting debate as you will likely be interacting with local or state LE, and probably not Feds. I have all the right paperwork, but no one has ever asked to see it.
HOWEVER, it is an interesting debate as you will likely be interacting with local or state LE, and probably not Feds. I have all the right paperwork, but no one has ever asked to see it.
Personally, I don't think they should even be regulated at all, but I just don't see that ever happening... The gov't doesn't make a habit of giving back power that it has already stolen and gained. So, that's a hell of a hill to climb to get to that level. That being said, I don't mind paying the $200 tax stamp, but the wait time and all the Form 4 paperwork is bullshit.
This is how I feel NFA should work (if they won't completely deregulate some things and remove them from the NFA)... You should be able to purchase a tax stamp OTC at your dealer, and then do a 4473 (just like a gun purchase), but have the newly purchased tax stamp number printed onto your 4473 so it's attached to that paperwork and your can, and then a NICS check, and then you should be able to take your can or SBR/SBS/AOW home.
Just like purchasing a gun, but with the extra $200 stamp that is now attached to your 4473 paperwork, and that stamp's number gets registered in the dealer's and the ATF's systems with your suppressor's serial number. Bingo... Every tax gets paid, everything is registered, and everything is in the system. Pass a NICS check, now enjoy your new suppressor or NFA item.
The process really needs to be revamped. If I can buy the actual firearm itself in a matter of minutes, why do I have to wait 6+ months for approval for a chunk of metal to screw onto the end of it, that only muffles the sound enough to NOT cause hearing damage? The fact they're regulated is dumb, but at the very least, let me pass go, I pay you $200, and let me bring both my new gun and my new suppressor home THAT DAY! Because if I can pass a background check to buy an actual firearm, that means I can pass one for a suppressor, right? So, why are we not fighting harder to have these serialized chunks of metal (that are NOT firearms) removed from the NFA?
I hereby nominate MudRunner to replace David Chipman as the nominee to take over as head of the ATF.
This is probably the most reasonable response I've ever read as it pertains to "how to" revamp the NFA tax process.Personally, I don't think they should even be regulated at all, but I just don't see that ever happening... The gov't doesn't make a habit of giving back power that it has already stolen and gained. So, that's a hell of a hill to climb to get to that level. That being said, I don't mind paying the $200 tax stamp, but the wait time and all the Form 4 paperwork is bullshit.
This is how I feel NFA should work (if they won't completely deregulate some things and remove them from the NFA)... You should be able to purchase a tax stamp OTC at your dealer, and then do a 4473 (just like a gun purchase), but have the newly purchased tax stamp number printed onto your 4473 so it's attached to that paperwork and your can, and then a NICS check, and then you should be able to take your can or SBR/SBS/AOW home.
Just like purchasing a gun, but with the extra $200 stamp that is now attached to your 4473 paperwork, and that stamp's number gets registered in the dealer's and the ATF's systems with your suppressor's serial number. Bingo... Every tax gets paid, everything is registered, and everything is in the system. Pass a NICS check, now enjoy your new suppressor or NFA item.
The process really needs to be revamped. If I can buy the actual firearm itself in a matter of minutes, why do I have to wait 6+ months for approval for a chunk of metal to screw onto the end of it, that only muffles the sound enough to NOT cause hearing damage? The fact they're regulated is dumb, but at the very least, let me pass go, I pay you $200, and let me bring both my new gun and my new suppressor home THAT DAY! Because if I can pass a background check to buy an actual firearm, that means I can pass one for a suppressor, right? So, why are we not fighting harder to have these serialized chunks of metal (that are NOT firearms) removed from the NFA?
But, knowing the feds, they'll just make everything regulated like the current NFA process so purchasing an AR will be like doing a suppressor
First day on the job... The top 5 of my "First Day Fixes"...I hereby nominate MudRunner to replace David Chipman as the nominee to take over as head of the ATF.
1. NO MORE shooting of dogs...PERIOD! If you do, you WILL be fired on the spot. There are other ways to handle K9's, than with a bullet.
2. Dismantle the entire NFA and setup the groundwork for nullifying the Hughes Amendment and GCA of '68. Affective IMMEDIATELY.
3. FATD will be shut down indefinitely due to illegitimacy. And since everything is now re-legalized, like prior to the NFA, GCA, and Hughes Amendment, we won't have to worry about any new technology trying to circumvent any laws. Right? Therefore...Chopping block!
4. Re-compartmentalize and cannibalize the entire agency into the FBI, and let them actually do their damn jobs, like stopping and arresting ACTUAL criminals committing ACTUAL crimes, instead of looking for new ways to screw-over law-abiding citizens that are just trying to live their lives as free men, pursuing their pursuit of happiness... You know, sort of like the Declaration of Independence guarantees.
5. Quit, and start a business legally manufacturing the newly re-legalized machine-guns, belt-feds, and suppressors. Long live America!!!
You have never dealt with stray dogs packing up and pulling down cattle.First day on the job... The top 5 of my "First Day Fixes"...
1. NO MORE shooting of dogs...PERIOD! If you do, you WILL be fired on the spot. There are other ways to handle K9's, than with a bullet.
2. Dismantle the entire NFA and setup the groundwork for nullifying the Hughes Amendment and GCA of '68. Affective IMMEDIATELY.
3. FATD will be shut down indefinitely due to illegitimacy. And since everything is now re-legalized, like prior to the NFA, GCA, and Hughes Amendment, we won't have to worry about any new technology trying to circumvent any laws. Right? Therefore...Chopping block!
4. Re-compartmentalize and cannibalize the entire agency into the FBI, and let them actually do their damn jobs, like stopping and arresting ACTUAL criminals committing ACTUAL crimes, instead of looking for new ways to screw-over law-abiding citizens that are just trying to live their lives as free men, pursuing their pursuit of happiness... You know, sort of like the Declaration of Independence guarantees.
5. Quit, and start a business legally manufacturing the newly re-legalized machine-guns, belt-feds, and suppressors. Long live America!!!
I've been fully-encircled by wild dogs while walking through the woods back to my truck...Alone...In the dark... Don't make assumptions cowboy.
And that's an entirely different scenario. I'm not referring to feral dogs or strays. I'm talking about house pets.In some instances I will agree with you, but I have shot more than a few dogs with collars on that had packed up and decided to go after calves. Not lost any sleep over it. Fido fucked up.I've been fully-encircled by wild dogs while walking through the woods back to my truck...Alone...In the dark... Don't make assumptions cowboy.
This is what I see from an out-of-state perspective. I don't see any federally-licensed suppressor manufacturers offering their products direct-to-consumer sans Form 4, which means that practically speaking, it would be up to an individual to assemble his own can and hope to avoid a visit, or some new manufacturing entity with a zero-fucks-given attitude would need to produce suppressors using components indigenous to Texas. (And on regards to this latter point, who knows how far down the chain of commerce one must for go - does Texas mine, refine, and alloy its own stainless steel and titanium raw materials?)
If I'm a business owner staring down the proposition of the feds seizing my assets, using every other mechanism possible to make my life difficult (hello IRS), and maybe ten years in Leavenworth, it seems like I'd want more than some reassuring words from a guy sitting in the governor's mansion before I fire up the lathe and start punching holes in baffles. But maybe I'm just a coward.
Gonzales vs. Raich and United States vs. Stewart provides some additional context on how this might play out in federal court. Is Abbott willing to indemnify its citizens against such prosecution?
The ATF would like to remind FFLs that it does not agree with this new law
www.internationalsportsman.com
ATF Says Made in Texas Silencer Law is Invalid - International Sportsman
In a letter to all Texas-based FFL's the ATF has stated that Texas House Bill 957 (HB957), regarding silencers and has an effective date of September 1, 2021, is invalid.
www.internationalsportsman.com
Nullification. Marbury v Madison. 10th amendment. 2nd amendment. Fuck the ATF.The ATF would like to remind FFLs that it does not agree with this new law
ATF Says Made in Texas Silencer Law is Invalid - International Sportsman
In a letter to all Texas-based FFL's the ATF has stated that Texas House Bill 957 (HB957), regarding silencers and has an effective date of September 1, 2021, is invalid.
In the beginning it will be painful. However at some point we have to start fighting the ship. The federal govt can only exert its presence if commerce is conducted across state lines. If a silencer is made in Texas and only sold in Texas technically they have no jurisdiction. Now an individual could have issues if they take said silencer to another state and someone wants to see the stamp.
of course a lot of this depends on our lords in congress and the Supreme Court to uphold and fix. I’m not holding my breath. But we need to start fighting back.
fuck around and find out is what they said about marijuana. hows that going? It’s still against federal law yet many states said fuck the DEA and FDA.
Lumberton Tx here.
Every shop i've been to within a 200 mile drive says they will not sell suppressors without all the usual (unnecessary for hearing protection) paperwork and bullshit. Violating federal law is a great way to lose their FFL. So basically this means yes, the buyer could buy a texas made suppressor without the bullshit, only if you can find someone selling them. So far i dont know of any businesses willing to sink the ship to play along with this political dance. Personally i don't understand the NFA. Could someone explain to me why they are even regulated in the first place.
Every shop i've been to within a 200 mile drive says they will not sell suppressors without all the usual (unnecessary for hearing protection) paperwork and bullshit. Violating federal law is a great way to lose their FFL. So basically this means yes, the buyer could buy a texas made suppressor without the bullshit, only if you can find someone selling them. So far i dont know of any businesses willing to sink the ship to play along with this political dance. Personally i don't understand the NFA. Could someone explain to me why they are even regulated in the first place.
Since the congressional records show that suppressors were never once mentioned in the discussion of the NFA when they enacted the law we don’t know the real reason why they were added. However I have heard it said that one politician had them added as a way to fuck with Hiram Percy Maxim who was the inventor.
probably so. Being as people complain about the sound of gunfire at public ranges, or basically anyone within a mile of my home, you would think the mass majority of people, shooters or not, would welcome them. I always assumed some leftist watched to many movies and thought they would make a 50 bmg go psssttt lol.
The problem is Hollywood. The uneducated believe it makes guns silent
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